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Pilot refused to fly shoeless children

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Pilot refused to fly shoeless children

Old 2nd Sep 2004, 12:49
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Just wondering how he had the time to walk up and down the cabin examining everyone’s feet
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 13:06
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No shoes a problem in an emergency???....

ok then will the 25 stone lard ass in row 34 please get off..and you granny, (sheesh she's 84 for cryin out loud)...oh and you sir..you're blind..off you go..
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 13:14
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Red face

If it is so important to keep your shoes on, why do most airlines hand out a little kit including a pair of socks before you even get airborne?
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 13:36
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why do most airlines hand out a little kit including a pair of socks before you even get airborne?
Seems to me because nobody actually has a clue what is going on, what the rules are etc.

Worrying.
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 17:02
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Slightly different angle. . .

I was taken to task some years ago when operating out of JFK because, as the aircraft commander, I questioned why we were permitting the carriage of a "quadraplegic" passenger. In the event of an emergency, reject/fire on the ground for example, this pax was totally immobile. It would be completely unfair to the rest of the pax for the cabin crew to be dedicated to moving this one person, even if it was a possibility when it was considered the pax was a large male and the cabin crew were slightly built ladies.

I was quite impolitely informed that the company would be in deep trouble if we refused to carry this person because of his disability. My reply was that I was not suggesting we not carry this pax because of his disability but for his own safety and the safety of the rest of the pax in case of emergency.

In the event, Captain or not, I lost the arguement and he travelled. We made Binghamtom from JFK and he was eventually lifted off the aircraft by the fire service about 20 minutes after we had arrived.

Anyone else been in this sort of situation??
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 17:40
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Mercenary Ali,

I suspect that the reason you were taken to task over your concerns is because This Might Happen

Although I personally agree with your concerns, Lawyers dont care.......

Regards, SD...
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 17:50
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MercenaryAli:

AFAIK, disabled pax travel on the understanding that it's at their own risk, and they'll always be last off the plane - and that includes an evac situation. They'll be seated near an exit (but not of course on an exit row, for obvious reasons) and the FAs last task, before they exit themselves, will be to unceremoniously throw the disabled pax down the slide.

WRT shoeless kids, in the present case we're talking about 2 and 4 year olds; in the worst case of getting out of a severely broken aircraft they're going to have to be carried, shoes or no shoes. I don't see what the Captain in question had a problem with.

R1
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 18:03
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SHOES or not to shoe

Referring to the post from Kaptin M,

When you're on Terra Firma ( the more the firma, the less the terra) I think you'll find that there are all manner of persons who have sway over an aircraft and it's Capt.

Senior Company Personnel
Airport Authorities
DTR

In this day and age, and some of you may not like it, but this is the reality. The old days of an infallible Capt, whose word was not to be questioned are long gone. And the industry is, in my humble opinion, safer for it.

I remember one long serving colleague, with many thousands of hours, who used the adage , "when the door closes it's mine"

I fear the Capt in this case was making something out of nothing, and perhaps should have been focussed on His imminent departure instead.

Chin Chin
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 18:06
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It would be completely unfair to the rest of the pax for the cabin crew to be dedicated to moving this one person,
I don't think anybody (disabled passenger included) is expecting the cabin crew to concentrate on one passenger. The unpalatable, though rarely discussed truth, is that a passenger who is of "reduced mobility" is going to be left on the aircraft until everyone else has got out and will then be helped by the cabin crew if it is still safe. The cabin crews job is to ensure that the maximum number of people get out of that aircraft and I'm afraid that means ignoring the needs of the one or two disabled pax. until everyone else is off. The cabin crew manual is quite specific about this and goes on to say that the fire service are far better equipped to get these people off the aircraft and don't want to have to rescue the cabin crew as well!.
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 18:57
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Now what about nylons?

In the event of fire, nylons are very bad news for the ladies wearing them.

Any explanations for why nylons are not banned
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 19:19
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In this "compensation culture" of a world we find ourselves in, perhaps the captain was just covering his own back and that of his company's. If little johnny was to cut his foot on a plastic fork that had dropped on the floor, then mummy and daddy wouldn't have been too happy I'm guessing....probably could've got a few grand from it.....
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 19:42
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I have a feeling that pheeel's answer is probably closest to the truth here

Last edited by Tony Flynn; 2nd Sep 2004 at 19:55.
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 20:27
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Totally Agree with "pheeel"
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 23:34
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Let's not forget the hilarious scene in "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" where John Candy (Del Griffith, Shower Curtain Ring Salesman) takes his shoes off much to the aromatic discomfort of Steve Martin!!! Maybe good reason some should keep the shoes on..........

Time for some 'sole' searching
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Old 2nd Sep 2004, 23:55
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Anyone know if there is anything in the AirNZ SOP's regarding shoes?
All these comments regarding the captain being an ass, but if it is covered in the SOPs what can he do?


Mercenary Ali,
I work with a lot of people that do commercial escorts on airliners. (Not as dirty as it sounds) Their job is to look after someone that is not medically fit. This can range from cardiac patients to quadrapegics. Their duties include an evacuation if need be, thus freeing up the flight attendents for the rest of the passengers. I hear that nowadays the escort service is required by the airlines for anyone that may not be able to evacuate by themselves.
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Old 3rd Sep 2004, 00:20
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I had to check up on the net to make sure this was genuine!

If the captain was acting by himself, then for that complete lack of common sense he shouldn’t be in charge of a PA system, let alone a passenger aircraft. ANZ should really be assessing whether he is mentally fit to fly.

Should the aircraft require an evacuation, as has already been said, you’d tuck a kid under each arm and run. Regardless of shoes, you wouldn’t let 2 & 4 year old kids saunter away from a burning plane!

If the pilot was acting in accordance with Air New Zealand procedures, then ANZ are run by idiots, and my apologies to the captain concerned.
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Old 3rd Sep 2004, 00:51
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Please Please Tell me this is not for real!!
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Old 3rd Sep 2004, 06:49
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that's right...during an emergency landing shoes (high heeeled-shoes, so expecially for women) must be left on aircraft (better if also nylon-stockings) in order not to damage slides and in order not to burn legs during the evacuation. baby's shoes (expecially gymnastic shoes can be kept on.

But what about a ditching or a crash landing with survivors in cold zones....they must be a repair waiting for rescue or feet will soon freeze.

As a normal boarding I think that everyone must wear suitable shoes also for hygenic reasons.....

I've seen in the last 14 years people boarding planes in horrific mises...not only clothes but also exxagerate piercing on face and nose and mouth.....what about if they have to wear emergency masks for an unplanned descent??? maybe they could tear them....hope in this case it is their fault!!!! as long as during an emergency descent cabin attendant brief people to remove necklace, ties,dentures, make up (it burns with oxygen), loosen belts and try to use cushions, jackets and everithing quite smooth to reduce injuries all stuffs to remain on board in an evacuation....

But boarding without shoes is unhealthy and also mean!!!!
people often board planes in indecorous suit!




Skunkie
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Old 3rd Sep 2004, 07:17
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So who learnt to fly with bare feet? nope, didnt think so. Its a saftey issue and a line had to be drawn in the sand with the public, who in general really are not aware of the ramifications of being barefoot in an emergency. good on the crew
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Old 3rd Sep 2004, 09:20
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Here's a fun little exercise for you. Read the posts above, then guess which of the writers know absolutely nothing about aviation. Shouldn't be too hard, as there is a lot of ignorance on display here.

As the lunatics took over the asylum, it appears that pax/wannabes are taking over PPRuNe.

Leaving aside the question of kids boarding an aircraft, in the middle of winter, with no shoes on - mind-boggling in itself - it is a simple safety issue. A child without shoes runs the risk of injury, if not from getting their toes trodden on or run over, then from getting toes jammed in any number of potential traps (mainly in the seat structure).

The issue of what happens in a crash is secondary (but still important). However in there was to be an accident, the kids are plainly better off with shoes on.

I'm guessing that this is a company policy thing, and if so I applaud them for upholding the standard.
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