Flight International gives pilots advice on fatigue!
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Firstly, please treat this story as honest, and no snides or giggles.
At OATS in 1975, as CPL students, one of our corps was involved in Transendential Meditation. He used it, to great effect he said, to recharge his batteries during the day. He was often seen having a quick fix after lunch. It was the shortest siesta I've ever seen. Like any enthusiast he tried to spread the word.
He showed us an avaition article which said that various authorities, including the UK CAA, were investigating the merits of this technique to be used in the cockpit during long-haul operations, especially at night. They came to the conclusion that a short, 20 minute, recharge by each crew member before TOD was of benefit, and this technique might be the best method to do it. It does not involve real sleep, where the person is unaware of events around them, but a state of deep relaxation where there is still some awareness and from which arousal can be failrly immediate. It was also possible in spaces that are too uncomfortable to achieve real sleep. It has the effect, after 20 minutes, of recharging the mind, rather than inducing a feeling of total knackeredness as sometimes happens after a too short a snooze.
I wonder what happened to that survey and investigation. If adopted it would stand along side CRM & MCC in the syllabus for ATPL's. Now that could be interesting; becoming a TM instructor. Trying to put your students to sleep instead of trying to keep them attentive. I wonder how you demonstrate it but stay alert yourself. The old 'follow me through' style might be conterproductive.
At OATS in 1975, as CPL students, one of our corps was involved in Transendential Meditation. He used it, to great effect he said, to recharge his batteries during the day. He was often seen having a quick fix after lunch. It was the shortest siesta I've ever seen. Like any enthusiast he tried to spread the word.
He showed us an avaition article which said that various authorities, including the UK CAA, were investigating the merits of this technique to be used in the cockpit during long-haul operations, especially at night. They came to the conclusion that a short, 20 minute, recharge by each crew member before TOD was of benefit, and this technique might be the best method to do it. It does not involve real sleep, where the person is unaware of events around them, but a state of deep relaxation where there is still some awareness and from which arousal can be failrly immediate. It was also possible in spaces that are too uncomfortable to achieve real sleep. It has the effect, after 20 minutes, of recharging the mind, rather than inducing a feeling of total knackeredness as sometimes happens after a too short a snooze.
I wonder what happened to that survey and investigation. If adopted it would stand along side CRM & MCC in the syllabus for ATPL's. Now that could be interesting; becoming a TM instructor. Trying to put your students to sleep instead of trying to keep them attentive. I wonder how you demonstrate it but stay alert yourself. The old 'follow me through' style might be conterproductive.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I do not need any fancy study to prove who is right or wrong.
I just take my nap when I need it and it works and I do have 121.5 open at high volume all the time.
Evening Star
You are quit right; politicians have these marathon meetings on issues that affect the safety of many thousands while being half awake or asleep.
I just take my nap when I need it and it works and I do have 121.5 open at high volume all the time.
Evening Star
You are quit right; politicians have these marathon meetings on issues that affect the safety of many thousands while being half awake or asleep.
Join Date: Aug 1999
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I, for one, am all in favour of the inflight nap. I know it has saved my bacon on numerous occasions.
I once filed an article for a national magazine where I mentioned the use of this strategy, which is approved by the airline. As a courtesy I forwarded it to our corporate comms department before sending and their reaction was unequivocal. "This airline's crew DO NOT sleep". Not cleared for filing.
I often wish that this ground pounder had the opportunity to visit the flight deck and have even the smallest idea of what actually goes on.
The reaction has not caused any angst and I can say for one that this airliine's pilots DO sleep and make the best possible use of the inflight nap policy.
I once filed an article for a national magazine where I mentioned the use of this strategy, which is approved by the airline. As a courtesy I forwarded it to our corporate comms department before sending and their reaction was unequivocal. "This airline's crew DO NOT sleep". Not cleared for filing.
I often wish that this ground pounder had the opportunity to visit the flight deck and have even the smallest idea of what actually goes on.
The reaction has not caused any angst and I can say for one that this airliine's pilots DO sleep and make the best possible use of the inflight nap policy.
, less fatique,
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
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I'm not convinced that a 'napping strategy' is a sensible option, for the following reasons ;
1. What if the other pilot falls asleep at the same time, fighters
on your wingtips time I guess.
2. When someone wakes from a sleep (even after a short nap) it
can take several minutes to be fully awake and be 'up to
speed', not good if your no. 2 engine is on fire for instance.
3. When you are in certain stages of sleep there can be
involuntary arm /leg movements, not a good idea with Rudder
& Flight controls directly in front of you.
So, all in all, we'll have to think of something else, I know, how about both pilots keeping awake, it's a bit radical I know.
1. What if the other pilot falls asleep at the same time, fighters
on your wingtips time I guess.
2. When someone wakes from a sleep (even after a short nap) it
can take several minutes to be fully awake and be 'up to
speed', not good if your no. 2 engine is on fire for instance.
3. When you are in certain stages of sleep there can be
involuntary arm /leg movements, not a good idea with Rudder
& Flight controls directly in front of you.
So, all in all, we'll have to think of something else, I know, how about both pilots keeping awake, it's a bit radical I know.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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B757Flyer said:
And then, both pilots falling asleep? No, thanks.
1. If the pilot that's awake is getting dizzy, he should imediately wake his buddy.
2. After you get back from the other world, you must stay put aligning your gyros and then, and only then, after a full alignement you should take-over and release your buddy.
3. You must put your seat well away from flight controls. If needed put the rudder peddals allthe way down.
I've been trying both ways (with combat naps and without) on transatlantic nights and let me tell you, I'm in a much better shape for the approach when I have a combat nap.
So, all in all, we'll have to think of something else, I know, how about both pilots keeping awake, it's a bit radical I know.
1. If the pilot that's awake is getting dizzy, he should imediately wake his buddy.
2. After you get back from the other world, you must stay put aligning your gyros and then, and only then, after a full alignement you should take-over and release your buddy.
3. You must put your seat well away from flight controls. If needed put the rudder peddals allthe way down.
I've been trying both ways (with combat naps and without) on transatlantic nights and let me tell you, I'm in a much better shape for the approach when I have a combat nap.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Kreuger,
Been there, done that, and I agree it is essential. However, the coming of sleep usually conicided with sunrise turning the flight deck into a sauna and made you feel under the interogation lamp. (east bound). in my B767, the seats had no head rest & the recline was insufficient. This meant, for my height, I had to slump down in the seat to support my head. Tried the blow up neck rests; didn't work. Thus, if lucky to achieve a nap, my back was totally screwed on wake up. At least a B767 cockpit allows you to stand up, just, and stretch. Try it in a B737 during a 5 hours out and 5 hours back trip. Impossible, and the seats are just as bad. In fact, any passenger seat is more comfortable than for the pilots. Scandal; and I've never heard a union complaint about them. Unbelievable. One of the most important items in T's & C's. IMHO.
Been there, done that, and I agree it is essential. However, the coming of sleep usually conicided with sunrise turning the flight deck into a sauna and made you feel under the interogation lamp. (east bound). in my B767, the seats had no head rest & the recline was insufficient. This meant, for my height, I had to slump down in the seat to support my head. Tried the blow up neck rests; didn't work. Thus, if lucky to achieve a nap, my back was totally screwed on wake up. At least a B767 cockpit allows you to stand up, just, and stretch. Try it in a B737 during a 5 hours out and 5 hours back trip. Impossible, and the seats are just as bad. In fact, any passenger seat is more comfortable than for the pilots. Scandal; and I've never heard a union complaint about them. Unbelievable. One of the most important items in T's & C's. IMHO.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Interesting reading all this...I was beginning to think I was one of the few who found it a problem....Flying 3 or four night sectors and ending up in an hotel at 05:00 has always been a problem...I only sleep for 2-3 hours then wake and that's it...I sit around all day reading...watching TV and feeling like a zombie....One night and a day of this is bad enough but by the last night sector of the week I would have had a total of 12-15 hrs quality sleep for the whole week and staying awake even on a tricky ILS can be a problem....I've tried non-prescription pills to help with sleep but don't want to become addicted to anything stronger....The really irritating mornings are those when I'm woken by cleaners in the hotel corridor wanging there whining machines around and people holding loud conversations directly outside of my door ! Anyone out there know of a non dependant sleep enhansing drug ?
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poorwanderingwun, instead of drugs why don't you try this. In the beginning of the afternoon you go to Gymn or have some kind of physical exercise
and after that get a nice massage. I'm sure you'll get to sleep right away. After that you'll feel much better for your night sectors. Also try some combat naps before the letdown. It has been working for me nicely. After landing at 0700, drive home, get into bed until 1200 and up again so won't mess up my bio-clock.
and after that get a nice massage. I'm sure you'll get to sleep right away. After that you'll feel much better for your night sectors. Also try some combat naps before the letdown. It has been working for me nicely. After landing at 0700, drive home, get into bed until 1200 and up again so won't mess up my bio-clock.
