Two Russian pax a/c crashed within minutes of each other
Still behind the curtain
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Islamic Brigade
I note that CNN, which played up the Islamic Brigade web page angle earlier in the day, has completely backed off without any mention of it or any other terrorist claims. Apparently not a very trustworthy source.
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Ok I am just humble cabin crew but I would like to ask the assembled expert's in their opion:-
1/ Could a 'small' explosive charge blow the arse off the aircraft in what I would have though a fairly safe place.
2/ Could/Would there have been any warning, that is does the explosive just explode and goodbye or is there just a small bang and the aircraft structure fail.
3/ Given enough warning after take off, could the flight have been saved ? (that is anything the CC should watch for)
4/ At a guess how would the same senario affect a 737/A320 and a 747/A330 ?
I fully understand replies not being posted on a public forum if felt sensitive to security.
H
1/ Could a 'small' explosive charge blow the arse off the aircraft in what I would have though a fairly safe place.
2/ Could/Would there have been any warning, that is does the explosive just explode and goodbye or is there just a small bang and the aircraft structure fail.
3/ Given enough warning after take off, could the flight have been saved ? (that is anything the CC should watch for)
4/ At a guess how would the same senario affect a 737/A320 and a 747/A330 ?
I fully understand replies not being posted on a public forum if felt sensitive to security.
H
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Seems to me like an act of terrorism, nothing more to say about that...
Read a story (about a forum member from Florida)
Throwing frozen chickens into turbofan engines, funny reading, actualy learnd something to
Read a story (about a forum member from Florida)
Throwing frozen chickens into turbofan engines, funny reading, actualy learnd something to
Mistrust in Management
Havana
Ok I am just humble cabin crew
1/ Could a 'small' explosive charge blow the arse off the aircraft in what I would have though a fairly safe place.
2/ Could/Would there have been any warning, that is does the explosive just explode and goodbye or is there just a small bang and the aircraft structure fail.
3/ Given enough warning after take off, could the flight have been saved ? (that is anything the CC should watch for)
4/ At a guess how would the same senario affect a 737/A320 and a 747/A330 ?
Regards
Exeng
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Pravda Report: TU-134 and TU-154 were exploded from their toilets
Latest (27/8) from Pravda suggests that:
Full text here
The pilots of both the planes gave SOS signals, the damages of both the planes were identical - their tails were torn in the air,
The question now is: are the security systems in place in the west better able to spot potential bomb material, or is the west as vulnerable to what happened in Russia. I ask this because I have no clue as to the level and standards of Russian aviation security.
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According to the Washington Post this morning, Russian planes, such as the TU-154, have distress buttons in the cockpit, galley, and elsewhere in the cabin. The cockpit door is bulletproof and locked. It appears that only the pilots are able to transmit a hijacking signal using a special four digit code. This suggests the cabin crew may have sent the distress signal from the TU-154.
This same article reports that a TU-134 pilot said that during training, they were told that 400 grams of explosive was sufficient to blow a basketball-sized hole in the hull of an aircraft, causing a violent decompression at cruising altitude.
A separate,lengthy article in the Washington Post discusses how ill-prepared the United States is to prevent suicide bombings on aircraft. Both Congress and the 9-11 Commission have urged the Transportation Security Agency (TSA) to take steps to screen passengers for explosives. TSA said it will buy 10 machines for use in five airports as a test. (On a sidenote, TSA ran a month-long test of these machines at a lightly used passenger train station earlier this summer following the train bombings in Madrid.) The TSA test is to occur this summer, although the article implied it has yet to begin.
The explosive detector machines are made by General Electric and the Smiths Group PLC. They cost about $150,000 apiece. Their biggest drawback is that it takes about 15 seconds per passenger to do the screening. Also, they may have difficulty in detecting well-packaged and well-hidden plastic explosives.
This same article reports that a TU-134 pilot said that during training, they were told that 400 grams of explosive was sufficient to blow a basketball-sized hole in the hull of an aircraft, causing a violent decompression at cruising altitude.
A separate,lengthy article in the Washington Post discusses how ill-prepared the United States is to prevent suicide bombings on aircraft. Both Congress and the 9-11 Commission have urged the Transportation Security Agency (TSA) to take steps to screen passengers for explosives. TSA said it will buy 10 machines for use in five airports as a test. (On a sidenote, TSA ran a month-long test of these machines at a lightly used passenger train station earlier this summer following the train bombings in Madrid.) The TSA test is to occur this summer, although the article implied it has yet to begin.
The explosive detector machines are made by General Electric and the Smiths Group PLC. They cost about $150,000 apiece. Their biggest drawback is that it takes about 15 seconds per passenger to do the screening. Also, they may have difficulty in detecting well-packaged and well-hidden plastic explosives.
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Cyclonite, Hexogen, RDX - its all the same stuff. See:
http://www.saudiform.com/hexamine.html#PHYSICAL
Funny that the first website in English you get when you Google Hexogen is a Saudi one.
http://www.saudiform.com/hexamine.html#PHYSICAL
Funny that the first website in English you get when you Google Hexogen is a Saudi one.
I just edited out the URL, but I suppose those who want to do these things already know how to find them.
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Hexamine
My Google search produced an entry for Boy Scout emergency firelighters as the first line. That seemed innocuous enough but later a site for a manufacturer of hexamine was indicated, which stated that -
"Sina Chemical Industries Co. (SCIC) as a Public Joint Stock company was established in 1989 in a plant with 80,000m² area located in Shiraz, south of Iran. It is an independent operating company and the most leading Formalin producer in Iran. Beside Formalin plant, there is a plant for producing Hexamine. The plants use optimized processing methods that guarantee a product of consistently high quality.
The excellence of after sales service has been firmly established over many years, and forms the backbone of the company's success.
SCIC is committed to development and is seeking for profitable investment opportunities, particularly in the design of Formaldehyde derivatives plants, so accepts the proposals in this field.
Because of the excellent quality of products, we are exporting Hexamine to various countries such as Germany, Taiwan, Korea, Pakistan, UK and many others. So do not hesitate to contact us for further information. "
Looks like a long job curtailing Hexamine, if that is part of the answer.
"Sina Chemical Industries Co. (SCIC) as a Public Joint Stock company was established in 1989 in a plant with 80,000m² area located in Shiraz, south of Iran. It is an independent operating company and the most leading Formalin producer in Iran. Beside Formalin plant, there is a plant for producing Hexamine. The plants use optimized processing methods that guarantee a product of consistently high quality.
The excellence of after sales service has been firmly established over many years, and forms the backbone of the company's success.
SCIC is committed to development and is seeking for profitable investment opportunities, particularly in the design of Formaldehyde derivatives plants, so accepts the proposals in this field.
Because of the excellent quality of products, we are exporting Hexamine to various countries such as Germany, Taiwan, Korea, Pakistan, UK and many others. So do not hesitate to contact us for further information. "
Looks like a long job curtailing Hexamine, if that is part of the answer.
Distasteful as I know this will sound, but I do not think it beyond the bounds of possibility that these murderers may have smuggled explosives onto the aeroplane concealed in a body cavity. A simpler task for a female than for a male.
Perhaps bomb-sniffing dogs should be positioned at more airport gates - although 100% cover would clearly be impossible.
RIP
Perhaps bomb-sniffing dogs should be positioned at more airport gates - although 100% cover would clearly be impossible.
RIP
The size of a bar of soap
Article in Independent
If all it takes is something that small in the toilet
As with the initial Comet and the 747 off Taiwan accidents, a pressure vessel failure by the ends of the fuselage is very bad news. I'm guessing that there was enough time between the initial breach and breakup for the crew to put out a distress alarm.
If all it takes is something that small in the toilet
As with the initial Comet and the 747 off Taiwan accidents, a pressure vessel failure by the ends of the fuselage is very bad news. I'm guessing that there was enough time between the initial breach and breakup for the crew to put out a distress alarm.
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Great explosives detectors
Here are the best explosives detectors around. The eXaminer 3DX®6000 and the VCT30 , both made by L-3 Communications.
Check 6
Check 6
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Ratherbeflying wrote:
Ratherbeflying - I thought the Comet failures were the result of tears around hull cut outs for aerials, rather than pressure bulkead failure? As for CI611 I hadn't read a report yet - the NTSB simply say 'Taiwan is investigating' - earlier I'd seen some discussion around cargo door blow out - do you have more uptodate info?
Peter
As with the initial Comet and the 747 off Taiwan accidents, a pressure vessel failure by the ends of the fuselage is very bad news.
Peter
Kunigan, my fading brain cells only recall the initial Comet failure somewhere near the cockpit end; CI611 preliminary reports indicate initial failure around a previous tailstrike repair as has been extensively discussed on pprune.
Contrast that to the 747 losing a cargo door departing Hawaii, the L1011 blowing a tire on climbout over the Arabian peninsula and the 737 that lost the cabin roof in Hawaii where successfull landings were made.
Contrast that to the 747 losing a cargo door departing Hawaii, the L1011 blowing a tire on climbout over the Arabian peninsula and the 737 that lost the cabin roof in Hawaii where successfull landings were made.
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Another article which confirms the crash was most likely a terrorist attack. Very worying if it is indeed true.
http://nowaviation.com/content/view/76//
Regards,
WW
http://nowaviation.com/content/view/76//
Regards,
WW
The Reverend
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Kuningan, correct. Hereby an excerpt from the Comet archives:
The antenna in question was an ADF loop antenna, two of which were located in the top of the forward fuselage.
An examination of aircraft wreckage recovered after a crash discovered a crack forming in the corner of an aerial cut-out, while tests on the ground burst a plane open at the corner of one of its famous square windows. The corners of the square windows effectively acted as stress concentrators and the metal fatigue occurred because of crystalline changes in the fuselage skin.
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Comet stuff is irrelevant
The inquiry into the 2 major Comet crashes was basically a coverup in true Brit fashion. The chain was:
The name: Dehavilland had an appalling record of in-flight structural failures - why should model 104 be any different
Came unglued: Save rivets by gee whiz glue (most difficult thing for the judge and barristers to cover up)
Metal fatigue: Nobody had heard of it, totally new problem so nobody be blamed. Except N.S. Norway who wrote a popular novel about it, fortunately he was on the other side of the world so he could be ignored even though he had been an aeronautical engineer and knew all the players at DH and Airspeed. Why wasn't he aked about it for for the inquiry? - all part of the coverup old boy.
I would not belive anything in the Comet investigation other than the regos and the casualties
The inquiry into the 2 major Comet crashes was basically a coverup in true Brit fashion. The chain was:
The name: Dehavilland had an appalling record of in-flight structural failures - why should model 104 be any different
Came unglued: Save rivets by gee whiz glue (most difficult thing for the judge and barristers to cover up)
Metal fatigue: Nobody had heard of it, totally new problem so nobody be blamed. Except N.S. Norway who wrote a popular novel about it, fortunately he was on the other side of the world so he could be ignored even though he had been an aeronautical engineer and knew all the players at DH and Airspeed. Why wasn't he aked about it for for the inquiry? - all part of the coverup old boy.
I would not belive anything in the Comet investigation other than the regos and the casualties
The Reverend
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Yes indeed. There were about 20 Comet crashes in all, killing some 500 people; (not all due to the original causes). However, it is still in service as a maritime reconnassaince aircraft with the military. BAe have a contract to upgrade the airframe to the MRA 4 with new wings and RB168-20 Speys. The program is late and over budget at a cost of 2.4 billion pounds of taxpayer's money. Not expected in service before 2005.
My apologies for hijacking this thread, but I didn't start it.
My apologies for hijacking this thread, but I didn't start it.