Two Russian pax a/c crashed within minutes of each other
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Looks like planes were hundreds of miles apart. So unless an incredibly freaky coincidence of two midairs it doesn't look likely. Russian reaction would suggest they're looking at terrorism, and given upcoming elections in Chechnya that adds weight to that theory.
Super-Friendly Aviator
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Both out of DME (UUDD) Domodedovo.
TU134 radar contact lost at 10.54 pm local.
TU154 radar contact lost at 10.59 pm local.
Inflight explosion apparantly reported on the 134, wreckage located. The 154 is still missing apparently.
Pres. Putin is on vaccation in Sochi, where the 2nd plane is headed. The fact that he has ordered the security agency to the scene probably points towards the fact that he does not believe in coincidences of this magnitude.
Neither do I. Let's pray that there won't be more planes lost tonight.
TU134 radar contact lost at 10.54 pm local.
TU154 radar contact lost at 10.59 pm local.
Inflight explosion apparantly reported on the 134, wreckage located. The 154 is still missing apparently.
Pres. Putin is on vaccation in Sochi, where the 2nd plane is headed. The fact that he has ordered the security agency to the scene probably points towards the fact that he does not believe in coincidences of this magnitude.
Neither do I. Let's pray that there won't be more planes lost tonight.
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Another update:
Two Planes Crash in Russia
By Peter Baker and Susan B. Glasser
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, August 24, 2004; 8:08 PM
MOSCOW, Aug. 25 (Wednesday) -- Two passenger jets that took off from a Moscow airport crashed within minutes of each other in different parts of southern Russia late Tuesday night with a total of about 90 people on board, authorities said. No survivors were reported.
Both planes left Moscow's Domodedovo Airport about 10:30 p.m. heading to separate southern cities and then disappeared from radar almost simultaneously about 11 p.m., authorities said. Rescue squads reached the scene of one crash in the Tula region south of Moscow early Wednesday morning and hours later found a fire that may be from wreckage of the second plane north of Rostov-on-Don.
Officials made no immediate statements about the possible cause of the twin crashes, but the extraordinary timing raised suspicions of a possible terrorist attack. Witnesses in Tula reported seeing an explosion on one of the planes before it plunged out of the sky, the Interfax news agency reported, citing local authorities.
President Vladimir Putin, who is vacationing in the Black Sea resort of Sochi where the other plane was heading, was quickly informed of the developments and ordered the Federal Security Service, the domestic successor to the KGB, to investigate the incident, the Kremlin said. Security was tightened at Russian airports.
The crashes took place just days before an election this Sunday in the separatist region of Chechnya intended to choose a successor to Akhmad Kadyrov, the Kremlin-allied provincial president who was assassinated in May. The approaching vote has already been marked by renewed fighting in the Chechen capital of Grozny, as well as elsewhere in the region.
Russia has been targeted by repeated terrorist strikes in the past two years, killing hundreds of civilians in Moscow and in southern Russia. Chechen guerrillas have claimed credit for many of the suicide bombings and other attacks.
"There's still a chance this is an appalling airplane maintenance problem, but it seems more likely this is a terrorist act, given the prevailing conditions in the region," said Fiona Hill, a Russia scholar at the Brookings Institution in Washington. "The whole of the North Caucasus is in considerable disarray."
Although Russian government officials have sought repeatedly in recent years to link Chechen separatist guerrillas with international terrorist groups such as al Qaeda, Hill said the possible airplane-based attack was not necessarily an indication of cooperation. "There's a situation where you have a demonstration effect -- what works in one place people adapt in another," she said. The fact that Putin is currently on vacation in Sochi, destination for one of the crashed planes, was "very symbolic, obviously," she added.
Aslan Maskhadov, the Chechen separatist leader, said in June that the Chechens planned an escalation in attacks against the Russians. "We're planning a change in our tactics," he said at the time. "From now on we'll be launching big attacks."
Maskhadov seemed to foreshadow the use of airplanes in a separate e-mail to the Reuters news agency last month. "If Chechens possessed warplanes or rockets, then airstrikes on Russian cities would also be legitimate," he said.
Authorities and activists had anticipated a major terrorist attack leading up to the Sunday election, in which the regional interior minister Alu Alkhanov is expected to win with the support of the Kremlin.
In an interview Tuesday before the plane crashes, Tatyana Lokshina of the Moscow Helsinki Group, a human rights organization, said the fighting in Grozny last weekend might be "some kind of prelude to some bigger event that would take place" on or before the election. "In the last few months, the level of violence has been steadily rising."
Terrorist attacks in the past year have focused on soft targets such as the Moscow subway and a rock concert. Security for domestic flights at Russian airport has often been criticized as lax.
Flight 1303, a Tu-134 operated by Volga-Avia-Express airline, arrived at Moscow at 9:20 p.m. from the southern city of Volgograd, known as Stalingrad during World War II, then loaded new passengers and took off again at 10:32 p.m., according to Russian news reports.
It disappeared at 10:56 p.m. with 34 passengers and eight crew members aboard. Authorities found wreckage from the plane in Tula.
Flight 1047, a Tu-154 operated by Sibir airline, left Moscow at 10:35 p.m. heading for Sochi, then vanished from Russian radar at 10:59 p.m., according to news reports. Interfax reported that 38 passengers and eight crew members were aboard, while the RIA-Novosti news agency put the number of passengers at 44.
Four hours after the crash, rescue personnel were still searching for the remains of the aircraft about 82 miles from Rostov-on-Don. About 3 a.m. they found a fire they believed could indicate the scene of the crash.
Two Planes Crash in Russia
By Peter Baker and Susan B. Glasser
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, August 24, 2004; 8:08 PM
MOSCOW, Aug. 25 (Wednesday) -- Two passenger jets that took off from a Moscow airport crashed within minutes of each other in different parts of southern Russia late Tuesday night with a total of about 90 people on board, authorities said. No survivors were reported.
Both planes left Moscow's Domodedovo Airport about 10:30 p.m. heading to separate southern cities and then disappeared from radar almost simultaneously about 11 p.m., authorities said. Rescue squads reached the scene of one crash in the Tula region south of Moscow early Wednesday morning and hours later found a fire that may be from wreckage of the second plane north of Rostov-on-Don.
Officials made no immediate statements about the possible cause of the twin crashes, but the extraordinary timing raised suspicions of a possible terrorist attack. Witnesses in Tula reported seeing an explosion on one of the planes before it plunged out of the sky, the Interfax news agency reported, citing local authorities.
President Vladimir Putin, who is vacationing in the Black Sea resort of Sochi where the other plane was heading, was quickly informed of the developments and ordered the Federal Security Service, the domestic successor to the KGB, to investigate the incident, the Kremlin said. Security was tightened at Russian airports.
The crashes took place just days before an election this Sunday in the separatist region of Chechnya intended to choose a successor to Akhmad Kadyrov, the Kremlin-allied provincial president who was assassinated in May. The approaching vote has already been marked by renewed fighting in the Chechen capital of Grozny, as well as elsewhere in the region.
Russia has been targeted by repeated terrorist strikes in the past two years, killing hundreds of civilians in Moscow and in southern Russia. Chechen guerrillas have claimed credit for many of the suicide bombings and other attacks.
"There's still a chance this is an appalling airplane maintenance problem, but it seems more likely this is a terrorist act, given the prevailing conditions in the region," said Fiona Hill, a Russia scholar at the Brookings Institution in Washington. "The whole of the North Caucasus is in considerable disarray."
Although Russian government officials have sought repeatedly in recent years to link Chechen separatist guerrillas with international terrorist groups such as al Qaeda, Hill said the possible airplane-based attack was not necessarily an indication of cooperation. "There's a situation where you have a demonstration effect -- what works in one place people adapt in another," she said. The fact that Putin is currently on vacation in Sochi, destination for one of the crashed planes, was "very symbolic, obviously," she added.
Aslan Maskhadov, the Chechen separatist leader, said in June that the Chechens planned an escalation in attacks against the Russians. "We're planning a change in our tactics," he said at the time. "From now on we'll be launching big attacks."
Maskhadov seemed to foreshadow the use of airplanes in a separate e-mail to the Reuters news agency last month. "If Chechens possessed warplanes or rockets, then airstrikes on Russian cities would also be legitimate," he said.
Authorities and activists had anticipated a major terrorist attack leading up to the Sunday election, in which the regional interior minister Alu Alkhanov is expected to win with the support of the Kremlin.
In an interview Tuesday before the plane crashes, Tatyana Lokshina of the Moscow Helsinki Group, a human rights organization, said the fighting in Grozny last weekend might be "some kind of prelude to some bigger event that would take place" on or before the election. "In the last few months, the level of violence has been steadily rising."
Terrorist attacks in the past year have focused on soft targets such as the Moscow subway and a rock concert. Security for domestic flights at Russian airport has often been criticized as lax.
Flight 1303, a Tu-134 operated by Volga-Avia-Express airline, arrived at Moscow at 9:20 p.m. from the southern city of Volgograd, known as Stalingrad during World War II, then loaded new passengers and took off again at 10:32 p.m., according to Russian news reports.
It disappeared at 10:56 p.m. with 34 passengers and eight crew members aboard. Authorities found wreckage from the plane in Tula.
Flight 1047, a Tu-154 operated by Sibir airline, left Moscow at 10:35 p.m. heading for Sochi, then vanished from Russian radar at 10:59 p.m., according to news reports. Interfax reported that 38 passengers and eight crew members were aboard, while the RIA-Novosti news agency put the number of passengers at 44.
Four hours after the crash, rescue personnel were still searching for the remains of the aircraft about 82 miles from Rostov-on-Don. About 3 a.m. they found a fire they believed could indicate the scene of the crash.
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...The Russian news agency Interfax reported that a hijacking signal was activated on the second plane before it went missing. The signal came at 11:04 p.m. from the Tu-154 airliner, Interfax quoted the source in Russia's ``power structures'' as saying...
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/inte...-Crash.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/inte...-Crash.html?hp
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From the NYT article:
Innocent question... does this use of the company director as pilot stem from the size of the company (AeroTransport says 5 current airframes) or the culture? In other words, would it be common in this part of the world for an airline's director to fly the line, or is it because the company is small (assuming it wasn't unique circumstances which placed the director in the airframe).
Dave
ITAR-Tass reported that the plane belonged to Volgograd-based airline Volga-Aviaexpress and was being piloted by the company's director.
Dave
AlwaysOnFire
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Unfortunatly I'm not surprised, I travelled throu Moscow international on the 5th of this month and found security to be
"relaxed", I wonder how it would be on a domestic flight?
May the victims rest in peace...
"relaxed", I wonder how it would be on a domestic flight?
May the victims rest in peace...
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Flight Recorder from Crashed Russian Plane Found
By REUTERS
Published: August 25, 2004
Filed at 1:08 a.m. ET
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Rescuers have found the flight recorder from one of two Russian planes that crashed almost simultaneously late on Tuesday, raising fears of a terrorist strike, Interfax news agency reported.
``Our main task is to find and evacuate the remains of the passengers and to find the flight recorders of both planes,'' Interfax quoted Emergencies Minister Sergei Shoigu as saying on Wednesday.
``One of the flight recorders from the Tu-154 has already been found.'' The Tu-154 crashed near the southern Russian town of Rostov-on-Don with more than 40 people on board. The second plane, a Tu-134, also had more than 40 passengers and crew.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/inter...sh-russia.html
By REUTERS
Published: August 25, 2004
Filed at 1:08 a.m. ET
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Rescuers have found the flight recorder from one of two Russian planes that crashed almost simultaneously late on Tuesday, raising fears of a terrorist strike, Interfax news agency reported.
``Our main task is to find and evacuate the remains of the passengers and to find the flight recorders of both planes,'' Interfax quoted Emergencies Minister Sergei Shoigu as saying on Wednesday.
``One of the flight recorders from the Tu-154 has already been found.'' The Tu-154 crashed near the southern Russian town of Rostov-on-Don with more than 40 people on board. The second plane, a Tu-134, also had more than 40 passengers and crew.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/inter...sh-russia.html
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In response to alexmcfire's comment about airport security in Russia, a colleague and myself were recently departing on a domestic flight to Moscow from an airport in the Russian Far East. My colleague had inadvertently packed six Korean decorative knives, with 5" long razor-sharp blades, in his carry-on... OK, OK, mental block - he just forgot... He didn't have a check-in bag and just remembered them as he was putting the bag through the x-ray machine... 2 operators, no query, no search... He picked the bag up and we boarded the aircraft. He checked them in DME-LHR though.
Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum
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Have to disagree with you alexmcfire. Flew S7 last month DME>ROV and return. Found security to be intense but seemed more enthusiasm than substance. Were several obvious holes compared to what we come to expect in western Europe. The post by spiney does not surprise me.
Only SLF, so will not speculate beyond what I can see. However, my blood ran cold at the reports.
(Birddog. 'Old school' indeed, but I am assured they are as tough as old boots ... even if the interiors are as worn as old boots.)
Only SLF, so will not speculate beyond what I can see. However, my blood ran cold at the reports.
(Birddog. 'Old school' indeed, but I am assured they are as tough as old boots ... even if the interiors are as worn as old boots.)
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<<My colleague had inadvertently packed six Korean decorative knives, with 5" long razor-sharp blades, in his carry-on... OK, OK, mental block - he just forgot... He didn't have a check-in bag and just remembered them as he was putting the bag through the x-ray machine... 2 operators, no query, no search... >>
Same as happened to my wife and I at Heathrow earlier this year.. I picked up the wrong belt-bag and halfway through the holiday found I'd taken my large Swiss Army knife and a 6" nail file. The whole lot had gone through Heathrow "security" with no problems...
Same as happened to my wife and I at Heathrow earlier this year.. I picked up the wrong belt-bag and halfway through the holiday found I'd taken my large Swiss Army knife and a 6" nail file. The whole lot had gone through Heathrow "security" with no problems...
AV8BOY,
it is not uncommon for owners or directors to be pilots themselfs. Same is true for a bulgarian company with whom I flew some years ago, the boss flies himself and does a very good job at it too.
Some airlines there are founded by pilots, so it comes naturally that they continue flying once in business.
A 5 plane outfit is not exactly big and as they seem to have a rather easy route structure, I guess the work at the office will be of a rather limited nature. Nothing wrong therefore with the boss participating in the flight line.
Best
AN2 Driver
CNN carries a map with the location of the 2 crashes, unfortuately no direct link (or at least I did not manage to find one).
It appears that the 134 crashed relatively soon after take off, whereas the 154 was nearing it\'s destination when it activated the hijack alert and reported an attack on the crew. I think it may be significant that the 154 was headed to the very location where Pres. Putin is on vaccation.
it is not uncommon for owners or directors to be pilots themselfs. Same is true for a bulgarian company with whom I flew some years ago, the boss flies himself and does a very good job at it too.
Some airlines there are founded by pilots, so it comes naturally that they continue flying once in business.
A 5 plane outfit is not exactly big and as they seem to have a rather easy route structure, I guess the work at the office will be of a rather limited nature. Nothing wrong therefore with the boss participating in the flight line.
Best
AN2 Driver
CNN carries a map with the location of the 2 crashes, unfortuately no direct link (or at least I did not manage to find one).
It appears that the 134 crashed relatively soon after take off, whereas the 154 was nearing it\'s destination when it activated the hijack alert and reported an attack on the crew. I think it may be significant that the 154 was headed to the very location where Pres. Putin is on vaccation.