Alitalia down to 20 days, Pilots don't rule out strike action. (merged)
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Alitalia down to 20 days, Pilots don't rule out strike action.
Business/Finance News
08/24/2004 12:16:36 EST CORRADO GIAMBALVO/AP Photo
Alitalia Chief Says Time Is Running Out
ROME - State carrier Alitalia could be faced with collapse within 20
days without the approval a restructuring plan that would allow the
airline to tap into a loan of 400 million euros ($488 million), the
company's chairman was quoted as saying in Italian news reports
Tuesday.
The reports sent Alitalia shares tumbling 4.7 percent Tuesday on the
Milan market.
In comments reported by Corriere della Sera, Alitalia Chairman and
Chief Executive Giancarlo Cimoli told unions that if they didn't
approve the restructuring plan, "Alitalia has 20 days of life left."
According to Corriere and financial daily Il Sole 24-Ore, Cimoli
also said Alitalia's revenues for July and August were 17 million
euros ($20.6 million) lower than expected, while passenger yields
fell 2.5 percent in the first five months of the year.
Alitalia's costs for carrying each passenger are 60 percent higher
than those for budget airline Ryanair, based in Dublin, Ireland,
according to the reports. Cimoli also blamed the poor results on a
11.5 percent absentee rates among company employees.
In July, the European Commission approved Italy's 400 million euro
rescue loan to cash-strapped Alitalia, saying more than 30,000 jobs
were dependent on keeping the airline flying. The Commission said
the loan should be limited to what was needed, while Alitalia drew
up a liquidation or restructuring plan.
Alitalia management is expected to hold contract talks with
employees this week, and Cimoli met with union leaders Monday to
discuss the issue.
"We hope to avoid a serious clash," said Fabio Berti, head of the
pilots' union, told Dow Jones Newswires, but added that his group
was willing to go on strike if necessary.
Alitalia has been struggling to stay aloft amid competition from
discount carriers and consolidation among the big players. The
airline, which is 62 percent-owned by the state, last achieved an
operating profit in 1998.
Earlier this month, the European Commission criticized Italy for
using decades-old bilateral treaties to order European airlines to
stop undercutting Alitalia on long-haul flights originating in Rome.
08/24/2004 12:16:36 EST CORRADO GIAMBALVO/AP Photo
Alitalia Chief Says Time Is Running Out
ROME - State carrier Alitalia could be faced with collapse within 20
days without the approval a restructuring plan that would allow the
airline to tap into a loan of 400 million euros ($488 million), the
company's chairman was quoted as saying in Italian news reports
Tuesday.
The reports sent Alitalia shares tumbling 4.7 percent Tuesday on the
Milan market.
In comments reported by Corriere della Sera, Alitalia Chairman and
Chief Executive Giancarlo Cimoli told unions that if they didn't
approve the restructuring plan, "Alitalia has 20 days of life left."
According to Corriere and financial daily Il Sole 24-Ore, Cimoli
also said Alitalia's revenues for July and August were 17 million
euros ($20.6 million) lower than expected, while passenger yields
fell 2.5 percent in the first five months of the year.
Alitalia's costs for carrying each passenger are 60 percent higher
than those for budget airline Ryanair, based in Dublin, Ireland,
according to the reports. Cimoli also blamed the poor results on a
11.5 percent absentee rates among company employees.
In July, the European Commission approved Italy's 400 million euro
rescue loan to cash-strapped Alitalia, saying more than 30,000 jobs
were dependent on keeping the airline flying. The Commission said
the loan should be limited to what was needed, while Alitalia drew
up a liquidation or restructuring plan.
Alitalia management is expected to hold contract talks with
employees this week, and Cimoli met with union leaders Monday to
discuss the issue.
"We hope to avoid a serious clash," said Fabio Berti, head of the
pilots' union, told Dow Jones Newswires, but added that his group
was willing to go on strike if necessary.
Alitalia has been struggling to stay aloft amid competition from
discount carriers and consolidation among the big players. The
airline, which is 62 percent-owned by the state, last achieved an
operating profit in 1998.
Earlier this month, the European Commission criticized Italy for
using decades-old bilateral treaties to order European airlines to
stop undercutting Alitalia on long-haul flights originating in Rome.
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It is a pity that the guys are to much oriented to their own country as this has Sabena written all over it... .
When close to bankruptcy due to high cost: let's go on strike...
But then again these guys work for the same company that wants properly run companies like BA, LH and KL to increase their fares because they cannot match them...
When close to bankruptcy due to high cost: let's go on strike...
But then again these guys work for the same company that wants properly run companies like BA, LH and KL to increase their fares because they cannot match them...
Mistrust in Management
trainer too 2
But then again these guys work for the same company that wants properly run companies like BA to increase their fares because they cannot match them.
I agree with the sentiment but I wonder what yardstick you use to measure a 'properly run company'.
Regards
Exeng
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As an Air Canada employee, I have seen first hand what the airlines management team does to the number one asset they have...there employees. Once the company starts asking for consessions, it never stops. Granted, Alitalia and Air Canada may be playing two different ball games, but the bottom line is the same.
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Having first hand experience with Alitalia the attitude of the staff and the unions shows the general way the Italians think regarding thier employer. It always someone else's problem! Hopefully ANPAC and their cronies will wake up before it's too late and smell the roses rather than the s#@t they tell their paying members 
"I agree with the sentiment but I wonder what yardstick you use to measure a 'properly run company'."
I think in this case a good yardstick would be not requiring hundreds of millions in public handouts to survive!
I think in this case a good yardstick would be not requiring hundreds of millions in public handouts to survive!
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I feel that Union actions are allowed at companies like RYR who are making millions over the backs of their employees. To do it at a company who survive as Groundloop rightly says only by hand outs and still cannot make a profit is plain stupid... That is the piont to look inwards and see what you yourselve can do.
Exeng. A properly run company is one that makes money, gets no governement money, can compete with others, treats it's employees ok (don't kill me on this one as in every company there is something to fight for like the BA pension
) and has a normal change to survive by it's own merits!
Exeng. A properly run company is one that makes money, gets no governement money, can compete with others, treats it's employees ok (don't kill me on this one as in every company there is something to fight for like the BA pension
) and has a normal change to survive by it's own merits!
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I put this on another thread maybe someone with more knowledge than me could give me a tip or two
'Got a bit of a problem, have got a job as cargo ops agent for both AZ and AC in LON and dont know which one to take...any suggestions out there? thanks'
'Got a bit of a problem, have got a job as cargo ops agent for both AZ and AC in LON and dont know which one to take...any suggestions out there? thanks'
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PavelNedved
It`s a tough call, but my bet would be with AC. I say that because even though we have fallen on some tough times at AC, it would appear that we have a plan for the future, things seem to be coming together nicely. Az seems to have too many disgrunted employees that don`t really seem to give a S**T. Mind you, there are many a companies that have the same type of employees.
Flip a coin!
Flip a coin!
I just wanted to put in a good word for AZ. I spent most of my working life with them. I enjoyed it enormously. It was great fun working with Italians, and I grew to love them and their country greatly.
As far as AZ was concerned, sure there were problems, but once you understood how the system worked, there were ways round the problems too.
The stations outside of Italy achieved amazing results on very slim resources indeed.
I really hope AZ makes it. The story might have been very different if it hadn't been for the aborted KL/AZ venture!
As far as AZ was concerned, sure there were problems, but once you understood how the system worked, there were ways round the problems too.
The stations outside of Italy achieved amazing results on very slim resources indeed.
I really hope AZ makes it. The story might have been very different if it hadn't been for the aborted KL/AZ venture!
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Fine sentiment Geriatrix but...
Alitalia has been supported by the Italian tax payer for far to long! A very comfortable safety net.More recently by EU loans granted under conditions that the company later failed to meet.
Does living within ones means ring a bell as sane advice for life? Could you honestly say that Alitalia management would have continued with their heads in a bucket of sand had they been made to account to private shareholders rather than the Italian government over the past 10 years or so? Taxi to work indeed! How many uniforms per year? And all that money received by the top executive management as the company fell further into debt!
Judged by the rules of the game of life then Alitalia deserves all it gets for fat complacency but....for all the hard working individuals within the company who could not have influenced the final outcome I hope it can pull through and learn to stand alone. I certainly begrudge my taxpayers money being thrown down the drain for the prestige of Italy.
Why don`t we declare it a charity, it would perhaps be more honest!
Alitalia has been supported by the Italian tax payer for far to long! A very comfortable safety net.More recently by EU loans granted under conditions that the company later failed to meet.
Does living within ones means ring a bell as sane advice for life? Could you honestly say that Alitalia management would have continued with their heads in a bucket of sand had they been made to account to private shareholders rather than the Italian government over the past 10 years or so? Taxi to work indeed! How many uniforms per year? And all that money received by the top executive management as the company fell further into debt!
Judged by the rules of the game of life then Alitalia deserves all it gets for fat complacency but....for all the hard working individuals within the company who could not have influenced the final outcome I hope it can pull through and learn to stand alone. I certainly begrudge my taxpayers money being thrown down the drain for the prestige of Italy.
Why don`t we declare it a charity, it would perhaps be more honest!
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After 20 days, if there is no plan then does the Alitalia then fly under court protection, just like half the US and Canadian airlines that fly the atlantic?
If so, then nothing changes - other than continued unfair competition for the non- subsidised airlines that have to make their way and pay all their bills (including leasing costs and pensions)in the real world.
If so, then nothing changes - other than continued unfair competition for the non- subsidised airlines that have to make their way and pay all their bills (including leasing costs and pensions)in the real world.
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And now, shock! horror!
The only way for Alitalia to survive is to increase productivity. Example: 13 hours flight duty and 17 hours service,essentially, working to the maximum flight time limitations allowed in Italy!
But! they cry...this is a threat to flight safety... we cannot do this!!!!
Well,,, as ALL the other airlines in Italy have been working their pilots to over and sometimes above these limits for so many years,what is ENAC going to do now that ALITALIA PILOTS in their superior wisdom are declaring these limits unsafe!! Which rules will apply to whom????
Of course these limits are a great stress on safe operation,as is the current 24 hour duty limit on three crew regardless of when the duty starts!
I hope that Alitalia can achieve something regarding a ruling on these unsafe duty limits endured by the rest of us for years.
I also sincerely hope that no Alitalia pilot has to lose his or her job but...the company must learn to stand on its own feet!
The only way for Alitalia to survive is to increase productivity. Example: 13 hours flight duty and 17 hours service,essentially, working to the maximum flight time limitations allowed in Italy!
But! they cry...this is a threat to flight safety... we cannot do this!!!!
Well,,, as ALL the other airlines in Italy have been working their pilots to over and sometimes above these limits for so many years,what is ENAC going to do now that ALITALIA PILOTS in their superior wisdom are declaring these limits unsafe!! Which rules will apply to whom????
Of course these limits are a great stress on safe operation,as is the current 24 hour duty limit on three crew regardless of when the duty starts!
I hope that Alitalia can achieve something regarding a ruling on these unsafe duty limits endured by the rest of us for years.
I also sincerely hope that no Alitalia pilot has to lose his or her job but...the company must learn to stand on its own feet!
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What about Sabena?
How would the former Sabena pilots feel about Alitalia's government subsidization? It ain't fair and it's a double standard in the EU... The Italian unions are notorious for illogical striking action (especially considering current LCC market conditions) in the face of changing markets... Wake up!!!!
Guess what? The industry has changed and Alitalia is a dinosaur with bloated costs and outdated work rules/policies.... Why should the Italian tax payer be forced to foot the bill for a bloated cost structure when they should be using that tax contribution to fly on cheaper FR, Volare or Wind Jet flights to holiday destinations?
If Sabena had to wind down, Alitalia should do the same if it cannot support itself... Don't worry, the Alitalia pilots would likely get picked up by expanding replacements like Volare, Ryanair, Air One and probably Easyjet.... More government subsidization is unfair to consumers (supports higher fares and inefficiencies) and non-competitive in this LCC world...
Ask the former Sabena pilots what they think about the situation...
Guess what? The industry has changed and Alitalia is a dinosaur with bloated costs and outdated work rules/policies.... Why should the Italian tax payer be forced to foot the bill for a bloated cost structure when they should be using that tax contribution to fly on cheaper FR, Volare or Wind Jet flights to holiday destinations?
If Sabena had to wind down, Alitalia should do the same if it cannot support itself... Don't worry, the Alitalia pilots would likely get picked up by expanding replacements like Volare, Ryanair, Air One and probably Easyjet.... More government subsidization is unfair to consumers (supports higher fares and inefficiencies) and non-competitive in this LCC world...
Ask the former Sabena pilots what they think about the situation...
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i think all wise men and women here in Italy and more broadly speaking in the EU hope that state subsidies and other unfair practices are at their final chapter.
the situation at AZ is probably more critical than it seems, pilot and F/A unions have agreed to help as i heard today on tv...they were talking about pay cuts and improved productivity but without compromising safety (what that meant was that they didn't agree to longer hours and duty so i don't see where they wanted to be more productive),they also said something about "non traumatic lay-offs" meaning of which i don't seem to grasp....
the facts are that AZ lost about 11% pax since the beginning of the year to other domestic airlines and has about 6000 people more than it needs...not to talk about productivity and quality of the service...
all in all something must happen,let's not hope for a bankrupcy since it would be bad for all of us but let's hope the company will undergo deep restructuring and will turn into a "normal" airline like other flag carriers have become.
the situation at AZ is probably more critical than it seems, pilot and F/A unions have agreed to help as i heard today on tv...they were talking about pay cuts and improved productivity but without compromising safety (what that meant was that they didn't agree to longer hours and duty so i don't see where they wanted to be more productive),they also said something about "non traumatic lay-offs" meaning of which i don't seem to grasp....
the facts are that AZ lost about 11% pax since the beginning of the year to other domestic airlines and has about 6000 people more than it needs...not to talk about productivity and quality of the service...
all in all something must happen,let's not hope for a bankrupcy since it would be bad for all of us but let's hope the company will undergo deep restructuring and will turn into a "normal" airline like other flag carriers have become.
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When the cash runs out there are no jobs. That is a focus for the mind. It has happened so many times. What would the AZ staff want? As it is impossible to protect all jobs the issue is about how many can be protected if changes are made. If AZ fails and some of their staff go and fly, say, for EasyJet they will have none of their priveleges. I bet they would rather do than than have no work. It is about time they realised just how strong those market forces are outside their own cosy world.
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BA go to Catania almost every day from Gatwick. Last time I went it was full though.
Post script having checked BA.com. They go 4 times a week about £175 return all inc depending on dates/ low fares if you book far enough ahead.
Post script having checked BA.com. They go 4 times a week about £175 return all inc depending on dates/ low fares if you book far enough ahead.
Last edited by kowloon; 2nd Sep 2004 at 14:19.