KE Strike
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Russia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KE Strike
All foreign crews at KAL have been asked to take a maximum of 6 hard days leave due to a possible strike by the local pilots in August.
All foreign pilots are urged not to operate during this period as you have already suffered a 10% pay-cut and for those of you who don;t already know it, all the local pilots have just been awarded a 50% safety bonus. In other words, every local pilot will or has received a bonus equal to 50% of their monthly salary!
Why help management when the locals get what stolen from the foreigners?
Anyone breaking the picket line during this period will really be letting down the side!
The VP line Operations is holding a meeting at the Hyatt Regency Incheon on Wednesday 21st July at 1500 hrs KST and all foreign Captains are urged to take this matter up with Capt. Lee personally.
Safe flying and happy landings ...............
All foreign pilots are urged not to operate during this period as you have already suffered a 10% pay-cut and for those of you who don;t already know it, all the local pilots have just been awarded a 50% safety bonus. In other words, every local pilot will or has received a bonus equal to 50% of their monthly salary!
Why help management when the locals get what stolen from the foreigners?
Anyone breaking the picket line during this period will really be letting down the side!
The VP line Operations is holding a meeting at the Hyatt Regency Incheon on Wednesday 21st July at 1500 hrs KST and all foreign Captains are urged to take this matter up with Capt. Lee personally.
Safe flying and happy landings ...............
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Russia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
737NG is right - the list goes on and on and on ..........
One possible solution since the foreign crews are not permitted to strike is to not give any sectors away to the F/O's.
Operate every sector and the message may filter up to management!
It's up to all of you at Wednesday's meeting to speak your peace to the V.P. Line Operations, Capt. Lee Young Duck! Good luck to all of you who are able to attend!
Suggest minutes of the meeting be recorded and distributed after every meeting as nothing ever gets done!
More comments for the rest of the foreign contingent would be appreciated as you can be sure this site is visited by senior management daily!!!!!
It's time to speak up and hold our ground!
One possible solution since the foreign crews are not permitted to strike is to not give any sectors away to the F/O's.
Operate every sector and the message may filter up to management!
It's up to all of you at Wednesday's meeting to speak your peace to the V.P. Line Operations, Capt. Lee Young Duck! Good luck to all of you who are able to attend!
Suggest minutes of the meeting be recorded and distributed after every meeting as nothing ever gets done!
More comments for the rest of the foreign contingent would be appreciated as you can be sure this site is visited by senior management daily!!!!!
It's time to speak up and hold our ground!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suggestion:
Leave KAL - Stay out of Korea for a 6 month period (mandatory) - Apply to ASIANA and return to Korea.
We're treated more fairly and everything our local pilots get, we get as well. All for one and one for all!
We're constantly recruting 744 and 777 drivers.
Pay and benefits may not be the same, but at least you're treated as an equal and NOT a "foreign devil".
Good luck with your negotiations and keep us all posted on this site.
Leave KAL - Stay out of Korea for a 6 month period (mandatory) - Apply to ASIANA and return to Korea.
We're treated more fairly and everything our local pilots get, we get as well. All for one and one for all!
We're constantly recruting 744 and 777 drivers.
Pay and benefits may not be the same, but at least you're treated as an equal and NOT a "foreign devil".
Good luck with your negotiations and keep us all posted on this site.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Oz now!
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, no more sectors for F/o'S. Would feel happier about that anyway. Is it me or are they getting worse?
What happened at todays meeting, am in the states at the moment and unable to attend.
What happened at todays meeting, am in the states at the moment and unable to attend.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen:
We, the expats at KAL have already suffered an illegal 10%paycut...........loss of contacted leave days for every sick day taken............and, it should be noted that every incident/FOQA event, exceedence, hard landing, high altitude jet upset, engine pod or tail strike has been with guess who in the left seat (?) - a local!
The KAL Safety Department calls this "SAFETY"?
So why do the locals get a bonus when it's us, the expats who keep the airline running safely and smoothly?
If anyone has an answer, please share it with us all!
Lets hope every expat will be "unavailable" or "report sick" as and when called upon to fill a seat of a striking local!
It's payback time! NO SECTORS TO THE F/O's PLEASE!
Stand united or be prepared to suffer the consequences - over and over again!
We, the expats at KAL have already suffered an illegal 10%paycut...........loss of contacted leave days for every sick day taken............and, it should be noted that every incident/FOQA event, exceedence, hard landing, high altitude jet upset, engine pod or tail strike has been with guess who in the left seat (?) - a local!
The KAL Safety Department calls this "SAFETY"?
So why do the locals get a bonus when it's us, the expats who keep the airline running safely and smoothly?
If anyone has an answer, please share it with us all!
Lets hope every expat will be "unavailable" or "report sick" as and when called upon to fill a seat of a striking local!
It's payback time! NO SECTORS TO THE F/O's PLEASE!
Stand united or be prepared to suffer the consequences - over and over again!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Formerly in Seoul
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Morning Calm,
You are right. I have already stopped giving any T/O or LDG to the F/O. I am also telling them why they are not getting the flying and I suggest to them that they take it up with company management if they have a problem with that.
You are right. I have already stopped giving any T/O or LDG to the F/O. I am also telling them why they are not getting the flying and I suggest to them that they take it up with company management if they have a problem with that.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Summary of the topics raised during the meeting at the Hyatt Regency Incheon on Wedenesday 21st July, 2004:
The meeting was chaired by the V.P. Line Ops, Capt. Lee Young Duck.
Also present were the Chief Pilots from the B747, B744 and B777 fleets.
For those of you not at this meeting it was interesting and I guess the polite word would be "high-spirited"
The question was raised on how many contract pilots the company wants to keep as a great number of F/O’s are arguing that the FCU want to get all foreign captains. Capt. Lee assured all foreign captains present at the meeting that the target number as per agreement from 2001 is already achieved and KAL could hire additional foreign captains if the need arises. The target is to maintain all the foreign captains currently with KAL and transfer/upgrade to different fleets as and when required. No further details were given as to when B747 Classic, MD 11 and B737 foreign captains can expect to be transferred/upgraded.
On the question of the 50% safety bonus (currently to be paid to the local pilots only) Capt. Lee had no positive answer but as it stands, the Foreign Captains are to be excluded from this bonus. This then raised another question: “Are the Foreign Captains” not part of KAL’s crewing staff, to which Capt. Lee once again had no answer.
The highlight and main focus of the meeting was for the V.P. Line Ops to prepare the Foreign Captains present for a "possible strike" by the FCU sometime in first or second week of August – the peak Korean holiday season. Capt. Lee went on to explain the current situation between the FCU and KAL’s Management and stated that there is a strong possibility of an FCU-strike. At this time no one knows if this will indeed happen. If it does though, Capt Lee pointed out that not all Local Pilots are members of the union and also advised us that some Foreign Pilot’s could get a quick right seat checkout
The Foreign Captains then asked Capt. Lee why they should help KAL’s Management when they are excluded from bonuses, per diem increases and that their 10% pay cut last year has still not been reimbursed. Why, it was asked, should KAL Management ask the Foreign Captains to help them out on the strike if they were to be excluded from the safety bonus. Words and phrases like " it's a slap in the face", the “Company is disgusting" and “it's a kick in the ? ? ?" and many other inputs were given to show the V.P. the displeasure that was felt throughout the room
The question on the scheduling practices (especially the A330) was then discussed and it was stated by many of the Foreign Captains that scheduling is dangerous, and highly ineffective. It was suggested that scheduling should be under the supervision of the Line-Operations Department so that errors can be addressed and corrected accordingly. At present, scheduling is under OCC’s control and the influence of Line OPS is too small to achieve corrections when required. Provisional schedule’s should be viewable on CREWLINK as soon as possible to see if the days off and the travel requests are given as requested.
The Airline (KAL) has far too many different Business Units (BU`s) and there is no lateral communication between each unit. There is no corporate identity and each unit is working independently
Ground school and the majority of CREWLINK notices/messages/bulletins are still in Korean and a lot of information is missing in the translation as and when KAL Management decide to translate something for the Foreign Crew’s attention. English should be encouraged and KAL should not translate manufacturers notices, bulletins etc into Korean and then have it re-translated back into English as too much is lost in this double translation.
Then, the V.P. Line Ops was asked why the Foreign Captains are having to incur a two day penalty if they had the audacity to actually “go sick”. This was quickly picked up by the hecklers in the room and added a good amount of AVGAS to the preceding argument. Once again the room temperature increased.
An interesting side comment....all the long haul Chief Pilots also attended this meeting and they were quite taken aback by the emotions that were on display by the illustrious group present!
To give Capt Lee his due, he remained unsettlingly calm throughout this ordeal and did promise to take ACTION on the safety bonus for the underpaid and overworked Foreign Captains, but too be very truthful, we do not believe he will make the attempt! Like all the V.P’s and AVP’s, they are ALL “puppets on a string” and “window dressing” for the benefit of the outside world.
At the end of the two-hour session, Capt Lee treated everyone to fine finger dining and copious amounts of hops at the VY Bar.
Attendance at this meeting was lower than normal and the general consensus was that as this was the third meeting this year, nothing discussed in any of the previous meetings has materialized, therefore, why waste a valuable day off in attending such meetings in the future.
The meeting was chaired by the V.P. Line Ops, Capt. Lee Young Duck.
Also present were the Chief Pilots from the B747, B744 and B777 fleets.
For those of you not at this meeting it was interesting and I guess the polite word would be "high-spirited"
The question was raised on how many contract pilots the company wants to keep as a great number of F/O’s are arguing that the FCU want to get all foreign captains. Capt. Lee assured all foreign captains present at the meeting that the target number as per agreement from 2001 is already achieved and KAL could hire additional foreign captains if the need arises. The target is to maintain all the foreign captains currently with KAL and transfer/upgrade to different fleets as and when required. No further details were given as to when B747 Classic, MD 11 and B737 foreign captains can expect to be transferred/upgraded.
On the question of the 50% safety bonus (currently to be paid to the local pilots only) Capt. Lee had no positive answer but as it stands, the Foreign Captains are to be excluded from this bonus. This then raised another question: “Are the Foreign Captains” not part of KAL’s crewing staff, to which Capt. Lee once again had no answer.
The highlight and main focus of the meeting was for the V.P. Line Ops to prepare the Foreign Captains present for a "possible strike" by the FCU sometime in first or second week of August – the peak Korean holiday season. Capt. Lee went on to explain the current situation between the FCU and KAL’s Management and stated that there is a strong possibility of an FCU-strike. At this time no one knows if this will indeed happen. If it does though, Capt Lee pointed out that not all Local Pilots are members of the union and also advised us that some Foreign Pilot’s could get a quick right seat checkout
The Foreign Captains then asked Capt. Lee why they should help KAL’s Management when they are excluded from bonuses, per diem increases and that their 10% pay cut last year has still not been reimbursed. Why, it was asked, should KAL Management ask the Foreign Captains to help them out on the strike if they were to be excluded from the safety bonus. Words and phrases like " it's a slap in the face", the “Company is disgusting" and “it's a kick in the ? ? ?" and many other inputs were given to show the V.P. the displeasure that was felt throughout the room
The question on the scheduling practices (especially the A330) was then discussed and it was stated by many of the Foreign Captains that scheduling is dangerous, and highly ineffective. It was suggested that scheduling should be under the supervision of the Line-Operations Department so that errors can be addressed and corrected accordingly. At present, scheduling is under OCC’s control and the influence of Line OPS is too small to achieve corrections when required. Provisional schedule’s should be viewable on CREWLINK as soon as possible to see if the days off and the travel requests are given as requested.
The Airline (KAL) has far too many different Business Units (BU`s) and there is no lateral communication between each unit. There is no corporate identity and each unit is working independently
Ground school and the majority of CREWLINK notices/messages/bulletins are still in Korean and a lot of information is missing in the translation as and when KAL Management decide to translate something for the Foreign Crew’s attention. English should be encouraged and KAL should not translate manufacturers notices, bulletins etc into Korean and then have it re-translated back into English as too much is lost in this double translation.
Then, the V.P. Line Ops was asked why the Foreign Captains are having to incur a two day penalty if they had the audacity to actually “go sick”. This was quickly picked up by the hecklers in the room and added a good amount of AVGAS to the preceding argument. Once again the room temperature increased.
An interesting side comment....all the long haul Chief Pilots also attended this meeting and they were quite taken aback by the emotions that were on display by the illustrious group present!
To give Capt Lee his due, he remained unsettlingly calm throughout this ordeal and did promise to take ACTION on the safety bonus for the underpaid and overworked Foreign Captains, but too be very truthful, we do not believe he will make the attempt! Like all the V.P’s and AVP’s, they are ALL “puppets on a string” and “window dressing” for the benefit of the outside world.
At the end of the two-hour session, Capt Lee treated everyone to fine finger dining and copious amounts of hops at the VY Bar.
Attendance at this meeting was lower than normal and the general consensus was that as this was the third meeting this year, nothing discussed in any of the previous meetings has materialized, therefore, why waste a valuable day off in attending such meetings in the future.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Russia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you Captain Kimchi............
Rumor has it that upto 5 foreign pilots have left (for a variety of reasons) in the last 5 weeks and there are more to go!
The greater the exodus the better for the few that remain!
Thank you won2go - everyone needs to take the same positive action..............
Rumor has it that upto 5 foreign pilots have left (for a variety of reasons) in the last 5 weeks and there are more to go!
The greater the exodus the better for the few that remain!
Thank you won2go - everyone needs to take the same positive action..............
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THIS CREWLINK MESSAGE WAS SENT TO ALL KAL PERSONNEL (FOREIGN CAPTAINS AS WELL)!
Success of 2004 Safety Promotion Bonus Program
I would like to express my sincere appreciation to all KAL staff both in Korea and overseas who have been making constant efforts to ensure Aviation Safety and Security during these difficult times.
We have been working hard and have finally established " Zero Accident " status since 2000 as a result of our years of unity and diligence. I am very pleased to announce that as of 30 June 2004, we have achieved our goal corresponding with the purpose of the Safety Promotion Bonus Program.
There is no doubt that the companys aggressive investment and your hard work in harmony have made this Absolute Safety possible.
As we are all well aware, one department or one individual alone cannot guarantee complete safety. It is only possible when it comes with solid cooperation and support from all individuals and entire departments along with compliance with rules and regulations.
We should regard this achievement as a new starting point and I would like to reemphasize the particular point that we should not forget the importance of each individuals role and cooperation among internal departments.
Also, I would like to thank all of you for your understanding and cooperation regarding the recent labor-management negotiation. We must make greater efforts to overcome financial difficulties caused by high fuel prices and to achieve this years business goal based on Absolute Safety and Security and harmonized relationships between labor and management.
Again I congratulate each and every one of you and express my deepest appreciation for your continued hard work.
Take good care of yourself during the summer season.
July, 2004
Jong-Hee Lee
President and COO
Analysis:
The above CREWLINK message was addressed and received by ALL KAL employees (including the Foreign Captains) and there are many references to ALL KAL STAFF - WE HAVE - YOUR HARD WORK - THANK ALL OF YOU - EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU.
Bottom Line:
We are also entitled participate in the 2004 Safety Promotion Bonus Program.
Success of 2004 Safety Promotion Bonus Program
I would like to express my sincere appreciation to all KAL staff both in Korea and overseas who have been making constant efforts to ensure Aviation Safety and Security during these difficult times.
We have been working hard and have finally established " Zero Accident " status since 2000 as a result of our years of unity and diligence. I am very pleased to announce that as of 30 June 2004, we have achieved our goal corresponding with the purpose of the Safety Promotion Bonus Program.
There is no doubt that the companys aggressive investment and your hard work in harmony have made this Absolute Safety possible.
As we are all well aware, one department or one individual alone cannot guarantee complete safety. It is only possible when it comes with solid cooperation and support from all individuals and entire departments along with compliance with rules and regulations.
We should regard this achievement as a new starting point and I would like to reemphasize the particular point that we should not forget the importance of each individuals role and cooperation among internal departments.
Also, I would like to thank all of you for your understanding and cooperation regarding the recent labor-management negotiation. We must make greater efforts to overcome financial difficulties caused by high fuel prices and to achieve this years business goal based on Absolute Safety and Security and harmonized relationships between labor and management.
Again I congratulate each and every one of you and express my deepest appreciation for your continued hard work.
Take good care of yourself during the summer season.
July, 2004
Jong-Hee Lee
President and COO
Analysis:
The above CREWLINK message was addressed and received by ALL KAL employees (including the Foreign Captains) and there are many references to ALL KAL STAFF - WE HAVE - YOUR HARD WORK - THANK ALL OF YOU - EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU.
Bottom Line:
We are also entitled participate in the 2004 Safety Promotion Bonus Program.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Oz now!
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As pprune IS anonymous. How about all those KAL pilots who agree with no more sectors for F/o'S RGISTER THIS FACT anonymously on this thread. We know that KAL management and their pilots read this thread; so it will show our resolve and solidarity. Excellent summary of the minutes, thanks. I for one have stopped giving away sectors, as both a protest and also the recurring theme of being fed up with sitting on the edge of my seat at 50 feet wondering what's goi ng to happen in the next ten seconds. I for one do not relish the idea of sitting in the right hand seat whilst a local 'captain' performs as PIC. Did it two years ago, won't do it again.
actually I think from watching some of your company "arrive" it would not take 10 seconds from 50' to "gentle alighting on the ground"
I would have guessed nearer to 4.2 sec.... VBG:>
keep smiling, it can be worse and probably will be!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A new message on KE CREWLINK with a plea for our help! What nerve!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Captains,
As you are well aware, we are now facing an impending strike putting us in an emergency situation. We have set a contingency program for that acute situation and all concerned departments are urged to support it with all possible measures.
For the part of the program, some of our expatriate captains are requeted to fully cooperate with the company in unexpected schedules, righthand seat qualification training (RHS) and whatever that might be needed when the strike really takes place. The reason why we want you to go through RHS is that you are likely to do F/O job under inevitable circumstances because of insufficient First officers.
We understand that you"ll have to give up some days of your day off planned in advance and be given replacement schedule on short notice. But since this is an URGENT SITUATION, we would dearly like to have your kind understanding and utmost cooperation.
Best regards,
Flight Administration
Flight Operations
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suggestion to all Foreign Captains on Days Off or Leave: DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE!
They don't appear to want to help any of us - so don't help them!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Captains,
As you are well aware, we are now facing an impending strike putting us in an emergency situation. We have set a contingency program for that acute situation and all concerned departments are urged to support it with all possible measures.
For the part of the program, some of our expatriate captains are requeted to fully cooperate with the company in unexpected schedules, righthand seat qualification training (RHS) and whatever that might be needed when the strike really takes place. The reason why we want you to go through RHS is that you are likely to do F/O job under inevitable circumstances because of insufficient First officers.
We understand that you"ll have to give up some days of your day off planned in advance and be given replacement schedule on short notice. But since this is an URGENT SITUATION, we would dearly like to have your kind understanding and utmost cooperation.
Best regards,
Flight Administration
Flight Operations
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suggestion to all Foreign Captains on Days Off or Leave: DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE!
They don't appear to want to help any of us - so don't help them!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Oz now!
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have decided to volunteer for this RHS training plus working on my scheduled leave.............................in return for my 10%, my one months pay deduction, and return of credit for dead heading, and safety bonus. Seems fair........Oh and then I might give away a landing also.......well an autolanding. They are really taking the p$$$ now.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello choyo
Don't think you'll be doing your RHS training or giving away landings (manual or autoland), as you WILL NOT get back your 10%, the safety bonus, lost travel days, lost leave days for every sickday taken or anything else management have stolen from us.
We all have contracts with the various agents but they're not worst the paper they're written on.
The Koreans have no respect or honour for anyone or anything not Korean!
It's high time we all stood up for our rights and as we're not permitted to strike, action in other suttle ways is the ONLY WAY TO GO!
We've all been asked to help out and stand-by the airline during the impending strike, well don't!
How is it that the locals (through their strike action) always seem to get everything they want and we end up with NOTHING, over and over again.
Lets ALL tell Flight Crew Administration to: F??? OFF!
I look forward to your support - EVERYONE!
Don't think you'll be doing your RHS training or giving away landings (manual or autoland), as you WILL NOT get back your 10%, the safety bonus, lost travel days, lost leave days for every sickday taken or anything else management have stolen from us.
We all have contracts with the various agents but they're not worst the paper they're written on.
The Koreans have no respect or honour for anyone or anything not Korean!
It's high time we all stood up for our rights and as we're not permitted to strike, action in other suttle ways is the ONLY WAY TO GO!
We've all been asked to help out and stand-by the airline during the impending strike, well don't!
How is it that the locals (through their strike action) always seem to get everything they want and we end up with NOTHING, over and over again.
Lets ALL tell Flight Crew Administration to: F??? OFF!
I look forward to your support - EVERYONE!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The voting finished yesterday and 73% of the hotspots voted to go on strike. Let`s see if they are able to go back on the table again together. The local media is not supportive for strike and the public oppionion is against the strike as well. Now it is time to use the power wisely and smarter then the counterpart on the other half of the table.