KE Strike

[flyguykorea]

Don't know exactly, but I've heard that about 1/3rd of the Koreans aren't involved in the union. Anyone know if that approximation is correct?

Wouldn't that mean the end result is 1/3rd + the 27% who voted against the strike?

As the previous poster said, the media is fully opposed to the strike which may be the ultimate factor in the coming days....

Murphy's law says they'll more than likely strike on the day I'm scheduled to fly out of this place for days off...

[Idunno]

When and where has 'The Media' ever been supportive of a pilots strike?

Pilots (in their eyes) are nothing more than overpaid, underworked prima donnas. Get used to that idea and forge on regardless. If you are waiting for the media to love you...don't hold your breath.

[Kaptin M]

It quite amazing, reading through the posts here, the similarities we expats have experienced with the Japanese.
With the exception of the impending strike, the stuff written here about the Koreans could as easily have been written about the Japanese.

Our contracts have been blatantly disregarded in several areas, but when the issue was raised with our contractor, no help was forthcoming - instead, subsequent contracts were downgraded to accomodate the (lower than western airlines') Japanese standards, eg. of safety, hygeine, and quality wrt accomodation.

When it suits the Japanese, we are subject to the same restrictive rules as the Japanese employees, but when it comes to benefits (eg. sick leave, days off, bonuses, staff travel), we are reminded that we are NOT employees of the company, but contracted labour!
Perhaps it's something the Koreans picked up from the Japanese during their occupation, or was it vice versa?
Either way, I had not previously experienced such discrimination, deceit and blatant, bare-faced lying in any other Asian country as I had until coming here.

As Captain Kimchi noted,

We all have contracts with the various agents but they're not worst{sic...worth) the paper they're written on.

and,

The Koreans have no respect or honour for anyone or anything not Korean!

Substitute "Korean(s)" with "Japanese", as we foreigners have noticed the same attitude in Japan - probably a cover up for an inferiority complex.

So in a nutshell, (i) your employer is the contracting agency NOT KE - play those two off against each other, as they do you!
(ii) the company feels no obligation towards you, and they will screw you whenever they feel the desire;
(iii) the contracting company will not stand up for you, because they don't want to upset the one that pays THEM (and that AIN'T you!);
(iv) work to the contract - don't think that by giving something, you'll get something back. You won't!
(v) keep written records of contract violations, discrimination, etc for future reference. International Law has changed a lot over the past 8-10 years.
(vi) don't marginalise your position.
(vii) the "meetings" with the company are a waste of time (on your part).

[Morning Calm]

LATEST ON CREWLINK:

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Dear Captains,

We are very pleased to tell you that Safety bonus in question will be paid to all our expatriat catpains. The amount is KRW 1,470,000 (equivalent to the one of national captain) and it will go into your per diem bank account directly next week. We will let you know the exact date later.

We are sorry for somewhat late announcement, but we had to go through the agreements from several departments concerned, to finally get the approval from the President & CEO, Mr. Lee. Even though it was already planned last month, it took us quite a while, especially under current pending strike situation. We just hope that this late notice didn"t make you misunderstand our intention to share the benefits we"ve got with you.

In regard to RHS job, we understand there are some worries from captains that doing RHS job goes against KMOT rules or any regulations. But please rest assured that you won"t have any breach doing the job as we have the clause, 2.4.9 in FOTM (Flight Operations Training Manual) that allows captains to do RHS job. For your infomation, the FOTM was well authorized by KMOT. Let us quote that clause as follows (brief translation);

"Captain can do the job on the righthand seat after taking a required training course."

To keep you posted, Flight Crew Union (FCU) announced the vote result on Aug 2 (Mon) that more than 75% members agreed to go on a strike. The situation is getting worse and worse, even though there will be more talks between the company and FCU till Aug 6 (Fri).

We do really appreciate all your understanding and cooperations shown to us and hope to have the same attitude from you until the plight is over.

Best regards,

Flight Admin

Flight Operations, KAL

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Personally, I think the Korean Pilots (Captains) are getting slightly more - but something is beter than nothing.

Isn't it amazing what a few complaints on this excellent forum can do?

I urge all Foreign Captains at KAL to support this forum and let KAL Management know exactly what we all feel!

Let's see what happens on Friday, 6th August?

[Won2Go]

Safety bonus was only paid after company management finally realised how strongly foreign pilots felt being excluded from a company-wide payment. Was given to ensure our co-operation during local pilot strike. Best guess is that it will occur on Sunday August 8th after talks break down without resolution on August 6th.

[Jock747]

Won2Go -

Fully agree with you and I thank whoever it was for posting the first thread on this subject as it's obviously helped everyone.

You're probably right on the proposed strike date!

Lets hope we don't have to do too much RHS flying with Korean Captains - ouch!

Morning Calm -

I agree that more Foreign Captains should contribute to this thread..........it's obviously read by the "folk that count"!

[Kaptin M]

Congratulations gents - it might appear that at least the Koreans are not as inflexible and discriminatory as the Japanese.
It would also seem apparent that any improvements you have been given have been WITHOUT the involvement of the agencies through which you are contracted!

It`s interesting to note that of those pilots who have resigned/finished their contracts here, ALL have entered jobs where they are directly employed by the airlines rather than through a contractor.

As an aside, does your contract not state that you are employed as a Captain?
RHS flying would entail using you as an F/O.
Also, we were given the assurance by our contractor that we would NOT be expected to be used as replacement staff during an industrial dispute (probably to save the name of the contractor - which would not want to acquire a reputation of supplying "strike-breakers"!!).

We in the contract world watch your events with interest.

I`m certain that KE expect to recruit more foreigners in the future, and that THEIR treatment of their own pilots, and non-Koreans should be unbiased, fair, and equitable (something the Japanese are Unable to understand.).

[choyo]

Why are we foreign pilots only receiving a third (or possibly less) of the safety bonus when compared to the local Koreans. Does this mean that the locals are 70% safer than the expats. Me thinks not. The incidents keep on occurring, and some are quite horrendous. I suggest that we post them here anonymously (obviously) so that the truth becomes obvious for all to see.

[FRying]

Gosh, what kind of incidents are you keeping refering to ??? Sounds quite terrible...

[choyo]

How about overcontrolling an MD11 to such an extent that the upper surface of the tailplane was delaminated.........and not reporting it. Or a 'cruise' captain disconnecting the autopilot in standing waves (why oh why?!) and losing control and stalling the aircraft to such an extent that the expat captain was pinned to the bunk. Or the ex chief pilot covering up a horrible incident in Nadi where the korean crew ignored the sid and atc commands, and also the gpws and flew straight at the hills, luck doesn't come into it. Or flying for three or four hours across Canada without making a radio call, I hope because they were asleep. It is known that both pilots on the freighter will leave the cockpit. Anyone else care to elaborate, these incidents and worse just keep happening, the arrogance is mind blowing....as is their complete lack of general airmanship. I picked up an aircraft recently at an outstation and the nav aids were still manually tuned to NCN both vors, even though they had just flown for almost seven hours.

[FlexibleResponse]

… Safety bonus in question will be paid to all our expatriat catpains…

We are sorry for somewhat late announcement, but we had to go through the agreements from several departments concerned, to finally get the approval from the President & CEO, Mr. Lee. Even though it was already planned last month, it took us quite a while, especially under current pending strike situation. We just hope that this late notice didn"t make you misunderstand our intention to share the benefits we"ve got with you.

Honest as the day is long. These guys really take the cake!

Good luck to all KE crew.

[choyo]

Bunch of dishonorable and untrustworthy

[Captain Sushi]

Honorable choyo, one fails to understand what you are hoping to achieve by publishing disparaging comments about another.

Be gracious, and allow your enemy to discerdit himself - as he surely will - if that which you have said about him is indeed correct.

But on the other side of the leaf, grant him the dignity to rescue himself from his previous ambiguities without being constantly reminded of his former shortcomings.

Let he who is without fault, cast the first accusation.
The sun shines eternally new, with each daybreak.

[choyo]

Shall not rise to the bait!

[asianaav8r]

Herewith Part 1 of a copy of a letter to management: (Part 2 in the next thread as these threads are limited to 12,500 characters) -

QUOTE:

29th July, 2004

REF: Safety Bonus & Foreign Crew Recognition.

Dear Sir,

We the Korean Air foreign pilots would appreciate if you could kindly enlighten us as to our status within the company.

Recently Korean Air announced the presentation of a Safety Bonus for all Korean Air staff and, once again for unknown reasons, the foreign pilots who are instrumental and possibly the largest contributors to Korean Air flight safety were excluded from this program.

We understand that the Safety Bonus is presented when the set safety target is met during a twelve- month period. All Korean staff (even the one’s who spend their entire working period behind a desk firmly anchored to the office floor at various Korean Air buildings) are eligible for this bonus, yet the foreign pilots who are at the forefront of this company’s daily flight operations are totally excluded from this program!

We are all baffled and amazed at this unexplained exclusion and are unable to come to any practical or intelligent conclusion in regards to this unacceptable decision by the Korean Air Flight management.
We feel that our exclusion could be due to one of the following reasons;
• Foreign pilots are considered to be highly professional, competent and flight safety is ingrained in our approach to duty and therefore undeserving of any recognition or reward;
• Foreign pilots are considered to be unsafe and incompetent and no amount of reward or incentive is likely to change our attitude or improve our approach to flight safety;
• And / Or the formula devised to calculate the safety bonus was specifically designed to exclude the foreign Captains, as their contribution to flight safety is considered to be insignificant.

The Flight Operations department has to accept an inviolable fact that the foreign Captains, who are from varying and diverse background, freely impart their experience and knowledge (without any monetary or other reward) by teaching and discussing many aviation related issues with Korean Air’s future Captains (i.e. your current First Officers).
This will prove to be an invaluable asset in the future and in reality no monetary value can be assigned to this generous and voluntary attitude of the foreign pilots in Korean Air. Additionally most of the Korean First Officers maintain their flight currency due to the positive attitude and approach of the foreign Captains.

One other fact that cannot be ignored is that over the years our experience, professionalism and approach to flight procedures have made substantial contribution to the bottom line of Korean Air’s balance sheet by substantially reducing fuel consumption, maintenance cost (reduced flight time) and possibly reducing insurance premiums.

UNQUOTE

Part 2 follows:

PART 2:

QUOTE:

Astoundingly, once again Korean Air Flight Operations management is requesting the foreign pilots to cooperate in anticipation of the forthcoming industrial dispute with the FCU and yet unashamedly the following points have never been given due consideration:
• Our per diem rate has not been reviewed for an unacceptably long period;
• Unilateral changes to our contract continue unabated, without any personal and legal considerations or consultations;
• Foreign pilots are required to personally finance any and all transition training costs with no program or recourse to recoup this high cost;
• Loss of previously awarded pay increment (annual CPI adjustment) on transition to another fleet (this is yet another example of the unethical manner in which Korean Air management conducts it affairs with the unrepresented foreign pilots);
• Frequent pay reductions are implemented and the demand for acceptance of these pay-cuts is accompanied with implicit threat of redundancy;
• Boeing 744 foreign Captains were forced to accept four days unpaid leave during the last SAR’s epidemic without any explanation or negotiations;
• Recent illegal suspension of a foreign pilot without pay while his case was under USA TSA department review.

Flight operations department has also failed to establish and implement a firm and fair policy on transition training program, to date three differing policies have been applied;
• Foreign pilots offered full conversion training by Korean Air, trainee required to repay the cost of training over a period of two years. Hotel accommodation and per diem paid in full during the training period and trainee on full pay for the duration of the training period.
• Foreign pilots instructed to outsource conversion training and personally finance the cost. No accommodation or per diem cost assistance offered, trainee on full pay for the duration of training period.
• Foreign pilots instructed to outsource conversion training and personally finance the cost. No accommodation or per diem cost assistance offered, and informed to accumulate days off or apply for leave for the duration of the training period (i.e. 28 days without pay)! This last policy is the worst case scenario for the trainee in terms of long duration of absence from home and loss on 28 days pay.
From the above mentioned facts, it is quite clear that training policies are unfair, inconsistent and applied impulsively.
Korean Air Flight Operations management clearly lacks professional, ethical and acceptable standards when it comes to establishing and implementing rules and regulations applicable to its foreign pilot workforce.

We would like to take this opportunity to refresh the memory of Korean Air Flight Operations management by emphasizing a few points (among many others) of our contribution to Korean Air:
 Acceptance of 10% pay-cut for one year, during the 1997 economic downturn in Asia;
 Forced pay-cut (imposed on foreign crew only) for a period of 10 months in the aftermath of 9/11 terrorist attacks in USA. This was implemented as a result of Korean Air management’s perception that a major downturn would occur in business travel. In reality Korean Air had record bookings and made record profits in the same 10-month period in which this pay-cut applied;
 Four days forced unpaid leave imposed on B744 fleet foreign Captains only, during the last SAR’s epidemic outbreak;
 Support to flight operations during the last three industrial disputes that Korean Air experienced with the FCU. This support was burdensome on the family members of the foreign crew, as family plans were disrupted by cancellation and changes to previously planned days off or vacation.
To date none of these contributions have been recognised in any form by the Korean Air management, in particular by the Flight Operations department. It is obvious that Korean Air management policies do not take into consideration or reward the industries’ most valued aspects of dedication, commitment and long term service.

Korean Air managements continued tolerance of employing the services of unprofessional, self-serving and unqualified human resource agencies is of a major concern to all the foreign pilots, these agencies are not concerned about the wellbeing of the company nor the pilots. The agencies rarely take into account the welfare of the pilots and are invariably late in responding to all important queries and issues.
Most of the agencies are owned and run by ex-pilots or people from various other background who have no professional qualification or training in Human Resource management, additionally many of the agencies are registered on off-shore third world islands (e.g. Vanuatu etc) where the transparency of the legal system is at best questionable, the company (agency) structure is specifically designed to enable these agencies to cover up any unilateral and illegal actions and to avoid the possibility of defending any legitimate litigations.
We respectfully request the company to monitor the activities of the agencies and ensure that the agents conduct their business and dealings with pilots in an legal, professional and acceptable frame work and do not engage in any illegal (they have delayed salary payment or retained the salary all together without any notice or negotiations and the agents must forced to pay the salary on time, that means the money should be deposited into the pilots account by the last day of the month), threatening or bullying tactics.

The foreign pilots appreciate the meetings with Capt. Lee Young-Duck, but have some reservations as to the real purpose of these meetings; we have had three meetings with Capt. Lee Young-Duck in the Hyatt Hotel crew lounge and have raised many issue regarding our personal contracts, safety, procedural and improvements in productivity and flight economics. But to date, we have not been informed or noticed any changes as a result of these suggestions. We therefore wonder whether these meetings are just a PR exercise as a part of Capt. Lee Young-Duck’s management plan or if either party is ever going to benefit from exchange of views at these meetings.

During the last general meeting with Capt. Lee Young-Duck in the Hyatt Hotel, the foreign pilots raised the issue regarding the possibility of being included in Korean Air Safety Bonus scheme, refund of 10% salary implemented in the aftermath of 9/11 attacks, review of our per diem rate and reconsideration on the highly contagious and unethical issue relating to unilateral changes to our contract (among many other issues). Unfortunately Capt. Lee Young-Duck, as a senior member of Korean Air Flight Operations team, was at loss of words and failed to respond in any positive and acceptable manner (maybe he was unprepared and did not expect this issue to be raised). The Foreign Pilots deserve a more qualified, positive and an honest response from the senior management.

Surging oil prices to record levels in the world market, combined with lack in implementation and establishment of any practical, realistic procedures or policy by Korean Air management to conserve or reduce unacceptably (by industry standards) high fuel consumption is of real concern to the foreign pilot workforce.
Long established operating procedures (poor flight procedures, skills and training, early release of CFP results in unrealistic flight operating data and no practical procedure in place to update actual operating weights in timely manner) result in uneconomical and wasteful operating environment.
We suspect that this unchecked and uneconomical fuel consumption (resulting in high operating costs and reduced profits) will once again provide Korean Air management an excuse to target the foreign pilots (exclusively) for another pay-cut.

A continued autocratic approach in handling changes to our contracts is unacceptable and in many circumstances illegal. This unethical process needs to succumb and all previous unilateral changes require immediate review.
If the contract review process remains unconstrained and one-sided we will be forced to seek legal advice on the possibility and legality of forming a labour union in Korea to represent the foreign pilots.
We understand that recent legislative changes in the Korean labour law, specifically those relating to foreign workers, now provide a legal framework for foreign workers to form a representative labour union within Korean laws.

Under the aforementioned circumstances, we are all rather astonished at the audacity of Korean Air flight operations department’s request for and expecting our full, indisputable support and cooperation. It is baffling that Korean Air is now requesting full support from the very group of employees that have been penalised in an arbitrary manner and treated with disrespect bordering on contempt.

The current atmosphere among the foreign pilots is highly charged due to fact that all of the above mentioned issues remain unresolved, plus the concerns regarding the safety aspect (most serious events and accidents occur when two Captains are crewed to operate together) and legality of right seat operations in the event of a strike by FCU.

Respectfully,
Korean Air, Foreign Captains.

UNQUOTE

[Scarebus PIC]

What's with you guy's from "down under" - nothing better to do?

Thought you were all rushed off your feet with all this flying and dead heading you're always complaining about?

I agree with Asianaav8r and strongly urge all Foreign Captains to NOT sign any of these letters .............

Not all Foreign Captains agree with everything that's been said in these letters!

Hope the "other" letter is posted on this site soon!

[asianaav8r]

QUOTE

Attn: Foreign Crew Members.

As foreign crew in Korean Air are not organised nor have a representative union, its difficult to cooperate on any issues relating to our work or contract.

Korean Air accepts the fact that majority of the foreign pilots will just rollover and accept whatever the management decides to dish out.

Only a handful of foreign pilots are vocal and demand fairness and respect, but this minority is easily ignored in the larger community of foreign pilots.

Management is also aware of the fact, that the agents, to date have never ever forcefully protested, represented or demanded for a review of any issues relating to our terms and conditions of contract nor our interests.
The agents are only interested in retaining their lucrative relationship with the company rather than represent the best interest of the pilots.

Now is an opportune time to show solidarity and ensure that Korean Air management respects our contribution to the safety and profitability of the company.

We should also respectfully demand immediate cessation of the non-stop, unethical and illegal one-sided changes to our contract.

They attached letter has been emailed to Senior VP Flight Operations and other Korean Air senior management, it covers most of the important points that concern all of us and impact our daily life and operations.

Many foreign pilots may not appreciate or agree with the contents of the message posted to the management, to these pilots I say “tough luck, its time to stand up and be counted and demand recognition of our contribution and the respect that is rightful and long overdue to the professional and dedicated foreign pilot community in Korean Air.

Yours truly,
Concerned Group Of Foreign Pilots!

UNQUOTE

Still trying to get hold of the other two letters in circulation!

[flyguykorea]

So you won't be objecting to any additional pay cuts in lieu of rising fuel prices, another round of SARS or the like? If those guys are at the center of this, then I say more power to them for taking a stand.

And will you be graciously accepting your safety bonus? Or perhaps donating it to the KAL FCU as a contribution towards the next camp site they decide to establish on the 8th floor of the OC building?


Standards are not the problem, the problem is that two of them exist...one for the Koreans, and one for the foreigners.

[Airbubba]

I just hope things turn out well, it's not a good time to be looking for a flying job from what I can see...

[Morning Calm]

As the sun rises over the Sea of Japan (which the Korean's refer to as "the East Sea"), I have read the recent postings on this thread with great interest and feel that Sacarebus PIC is to be commended for opening this thread as it appears that we're slowly getting what's owed to us here at KAL.

It's a real pity that more crews haven't commented on this thread as I'm positive this is read by KAL's admin and management departments.

The letters written to management are extremely well worded but you must remember that these letters are written by 744 and 777 drivers who have very little to loose. Those on the Classic or 737 fleets have much to loose and shouldn't get involved as management will I'm sure, retaliate in some way or another.

With reference to naming individuals, this I feel is wrong despite what we all think of any individual.

This is a very public forum and it's unfair to point fingers at any particular individual.

Personally, I feel these letters can only help the foreigners and it's high time management take note of our concerns.

My compliments to the author of these letters!

A question to Asianaav8r - how are you getting KAL info? And where's the "other" letter?