Britannia Fuel Emergency
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Britannia Fuel Emergency
Earlier this year (march?) a Britannia 757 going to the Canaries got into a real pickle with a nasty combination of poor weather and poor ATC between ACE and FUE. Aparrently after several attempts to land they eventually put out a mayday and got it on the ground. Not much fuel left by all accounts.
Anybody got any hard facts to back up this firm 'rumour'? What did happen and what are the lessons for the wider community?
Anybody got any hard facts to back up this firm 'rumour'? What did happen and what are the lessons for the wider community?
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No, not a journalist. And no, not a story in the journalistic sense either. But a 'war story' for sure. The wx down there was pretty awful, and in this instance the alternate tried to reject the diverting aircraft. The mayday was met with indifference and a really stressful situation did develop. I'd like to know more about what happened since I go there fairly regularly in the left seat of a jet and don't want to find myself in the same situation as this crew.
I believe the crew in question were subsequently praised by their management.
The serious question is what was the sequence of events that lead to this flight having to put out a mayday?
I believe the crew in question were subsequently praised by their management.
The serious question is what was the sequence of events that lead to this flight having to put out a mayday?
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I am not familiar with this airlines specific operating rules but I would suspect they are broadly similar to our own. If the total fuel on board before landing is anticipated to be below final reserve fuel ( 30 minutes) then a Priority approach and landing must be requested. If the fuel on board actually reaches the Final reserve quantity then an Emergency (Mayday) must be declared.
In situations where bad weather causes multiple diversions then this scenario might be expected from time to time. Diversion airports can find themselves becoming suddenly busy and under pressure, particularly if they are reaching ramp capacity. In such situations it might well be necessary for a Pilot to make the imperative very clear and perhaps at a slightly earlier stage than the rules would otherwise suggest.
As a left seat jet pilot you would of course already know this, presumably.
In situations where bad weather causes multiple diversions then this scenario might be expected from time to time. Diversion airports can find themselves becoming suddenly busy and under pressure, particularly if they are reaching ramp capacity. In such situations it might well be necessary for a Pilot to make the imperative very clear and perhaps at a slightly earlier stage than the rules would otherwise suggest.
As a left seat jet pilot you would of course already know this, presumably.
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PRIORITY:
Precedence, especially established by order of importance or urgency.
An established right to precedence.
An authoritative rating that establishes such precedence.
A preceding or coming earlier in time.
Something afforded or deserving prior attention.
APPROACH :
the final path followed by an aircraft as it is landing
Precedence, especially established by order of importance or urgency.
An established right to precedence.
An authoritative rating that establishes such precedence.
A preceding or coming earlier in time.
Something afforded or deserving prior attention.
APPROACH :
the final path followed by an aircraft as it is landing
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Read that to a Spanish controller, and try to count the number of Que's you get in return.
It was a serious question. In my book "Priority approaches" are as useful as "we are low on fuel".
How do you expect ATC to rate your priority request? Is it defined anywhere (ATC wise), if so where?
I believe the was a South American airliner which ran out of fuel on approach into some US airport a number of years ago? He did manage to state "we are low on fuel", which means, what?? I also believe this case is one of the reasons we today have fuel emergencies. Or not.
It was a serious question. In my book "Priority approaches" are as useful as "we are low on fuel".
How do you expect ATC to rate your priority request? Is it defined anywhere (ATC wise), if so where?
I believe the was a South American airliner which ran out of fuel on approach into some US airport a number of years ago? He did manage to state "we are low on fuel", which means, what?? I also believe this case is one of the reasons we today have fuel emergencies. Or not.
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How about the russki TU154 a couple of weeks ago bringing footie supporters into FAO who declared a priority approach due fuel and then had to get a tug to the apron due to his engines flaming out !!!......we could not believe what we were hearing and seeing !
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I believe the Mayday was declared whilst holding for an approach at ACE. The first alternate weather was somewhere in the region of 300m with very heavy rain. I think the Britannia then did 2 approaches to the runway in use followed by an approach to the opposite runway (with around a 15 knot tailwind), followed by a go-around, followed by a diversion to 1st alternate. They must have landed there because if they managed 3 approaches and go-arounds and a diversion after declaring a mayday due to low on fuel then presumably that was the only choice. Most people bogged off to LPA, where the weather was also rubbish, but the Britannia would have been accepted there with no problems.
The weather was forecast to be rubbish in the whole Canarias area that day.
I haven't yet seen any report, but an ASR at the least must have been filed. As for being praised by the company, it didn't sound like a very heroic action to me; he obviously took minimum legal fuel on a day when the destination and all the alternates were forecasting ****e weather. It must be said that ATC at ACE was also not very helpful, but there were plenty of options for those who had a bit of spare fuel.
However, I don't know all the facts, which is why I would like to know if there is any report out yet.
The weather was forecast to be rubbish in the whole Canarias area that day.
I haven't yet seen any report, but an ASR at the least must have been filed. As for being praised by the company, it didn't sound like a very heroic action to me; he obviously took minimum legal fuel on a day when the destination and all the alternates were forecasting ****e weather. It must be said that ATC at ACE was also not very helpful, but there were plenty of options for those who had a bit of spare fuel.
However, I don't know all the facts, which is why I would like to know if there is any report out yet.
If the incident in question was at the beginning of the year I remember the day well. I was down to fly to ACE but had a lengthy slot delay from UK due to congestion at destination caused by weather and ramp problems. The forecast as I remember was particuarly dire at ACE and primary diversion FTV. We therefore loaded a shed load of fuel to cover options for all Canaries airfields and extended holding. Upon arrival into Canaries airspace we discovered that weather at FTV was now on limits and aircraft wanted to divert to ACE - this seemed to come as a shock to some aircraft, particuarly from Germany and Holland, who now wanted to divert to ACE - the closest option. Meanwhile we went into the hold at ACE prior to an approach to rw 21 - strong winds (not to mention turbulence and rain) dictated the use of that runway which regular visitors know is a more 'interesting' approach than once round the bay for 03. After 20 mins hold - cleared for approach and crept in on limits and landed safely. Ramp full - handling agents maxed out - no baggage handlers, an age to refuel, though we were lucky enough to get an airbridge. Lots of self-help, cabin crew cleaned aircraft, flight deck helped with baggage - escaped about three hours late with some use of discretion ( a scenario for which it IS intended). Lessons learnt - on days like those - bugger the cost of fuel not used - forget trying to use a calculator to work out the last kg - carry loads and keep options open.
All in a days work - hey ho.......................................
All in a days work - hey ho.......................................
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As SLF who regularly flies into ACE (once had the pleasure of a jump seat on an AMM 321 in the good old days), I've only ever gone in on 03. So for an approach to 21, how much of a sweat is that? Looking at the terrain, it's pretty hilly coming in that way, so I imagine there's a lot of concentrating to do & turbulence etc to deal with no?
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AIRBUS GIRL,
"As for being praised by the company, it didn't sound like a very heroic action to me; he obviously took minimum legal fuel on a day when the destination and all the alternates were forecasting ****e weather."
But then,
"However, I don't know all the facts,"
A bit too fast to assume for my liking.
I bet you find extra fuel was taken, as we all do down there with crap WX, especially if there is any chance of a southerly. I have held over ACE, waiting for an approach onto 03,with 21 being wind favoured but beneath limits, while turbo props departed off 21.
"As for being praised by the company, it didn't sound like a very heroic action to me; he obviously took minimum legal fuel on a day when the destination and all the alternates were forecasting ****e weather."
But then,
"However, I don't know all the facts,"
A bit too fast to assume for my liking.
I bet you find extra fuel was taken, as we all do down there with crap WX, especially if there is any chance of a southerly. I have held over ACE, waiting for an approach onto 03,with 21 being wind favoured but beneath limits, while turbo props departed off 21.
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You can be certain that if the 3 eastern islands are using the southerly runways then something is up with the weather. Generally its nothing more than a dose of the Sahara dust being blown across the water, but this day shows the other 'extreme' of Canaries weather.
The approach the runway 21 is an offset VOR/DME with a slightly steeper slope than 3 degrees. It is made fairly close to the hills on the right hand side. The visual perspective is strange - the land slopes away from the aircraft at a similar angle to the approach. Our Company (after a minor incident) have decreed that this approach is to be flown by Captains only now.
Now that LPA has an ILS on runway 21R it certainly helps with the fuel planning - getting in there on a hazy day with an MDA in excess of 1000' and not too much petrol was always 'interesting'!
The approach the runway 21 is an offset VOR/DME with a slightly steeper slope than 3 degrees. It is made fairly close to the hills on the right hand side. The visual perspective is strange - the land slopes away from the aircraft at a similar angle to the approach. Our Company (after a minor incident) have decreed that this approach is to be flown by Captains only now.
Now that LPA has an ILS on runway 21R it certainly helps with the fuel planning - getting in there on a hazy day with an MDA in excess of 1000' and not too much petrol was always 'interesting'!
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<he obviously took minimum legal fuel on a day when the destination and all the alternates were forecasting ****e weather>
Dear Airbus Girl, do you know your flight planning? Required fuel is for one approach, go around and divert to alternate. Therfore the captain had carried more than minimum fuel. Bur surely you would know that.
Prissy comments seem to abound on this site these days.
Dear Airbus Girl, do you know your flight planning? Required fuel is for one approach, go around and divert to alternate. Therfore the captain had carried more than minimum fuel. Bur surely you would know that.
Prissy comments seem to abound on this site these days.
Brits Lo Fuel Problem
I can not make any specific comment on the particular incident in question, as I was not involved at all. The only thing I would say is, obviously not a nice day at all in many respects for the crew, they got the a/c safely on the ground though and that's the time for any discussion if needed.
As I understand it, in theory there is no such thing as a `Fuel Emergency`, there is of course an `Emergency` due to low fuel for whatever reason. I think in many parts of the world, in particular those off the more beaten track, if you say Fuel Emergency or Engine Emergency etc, you may not get much of a helpful response. However by just declaring `EMERGENCY` on it's own, this at least gets the Controller's attention and you can then explain just what the problem or type of Emergency you have.
I know this is a bit of a play on words, but what do the rest of you chaps and ladies feel on this point.
As an aside on the fun of operating onto 21 at ACE, I did this approach three times in our lovely old three engined lady. We did a go around off approah no1, but this helped greatly with nos 2 and 3. Super old girl, she could take 111`000 kgs if the OAT was cool enough and she now resides in happy retirement (front half anyway) in the viewing part at EGCC.
As I understand it, in theory there is no such thing as a `Fuel Emergency`, there is of course an `Emergency` due to low fuel for whatever reason. I think in many parts of the world, in particular those off the more beaten track, if you say Fuel Emergency or Engine Emergency etc, you may not get much of a helpful response. However by just declaring `EMERGENCY` on it's own, this at least gets the Controller's attention and you can then explain just what the problem or type of Emergency you have.
I know this is a bit of a play on words, but what do the rest of you chaps and ladies feel on this point.
As an aside on the fun of operating onto 21 at ACE, I did this approach three times in our lovely old three engined lady. We did a go around off approah no1, but this helped greatly with nos 2 and 3. Super old girl, she could take 111`000 kgs if the OAT was cool enough and she now resides in happy retirement (front half anyway) in the viewing part at EGCC.
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Sorry if I was unclear, I did mean fuel emergency as in an automatic MAYDAY (followed by the reason) when the situation so dictates. MAYDAY rather than, eeeh, we are a bit low on fuel and request priority.
If everything points to a landing with less than final reserve and you don't have any other options, you already have an emergency, IMHO. Why wait for the fuel to reach final reserve?
Not to mention the fact that some aircraft will display a FUEL LOW warning well before final reserve fuel.
If everything points to a landing with less than final reserve and you don't have any other options, you already have an emergency, IMHO. Why wait for the fuel to reach final reserve?
Not to mention the fact that some aircraft will display a FUEL LOW warning well before final reserve fuel.
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kaikohe76 - you are quite right. In the UK we do not recognise the term 'Fuel Emergency' If you want priority for any reason you will be expected to declare a PAN or MAYDAY. If we are not sure what you want then we are required to ask you 'do you wish to declare an emergency?' If you say NO, then things will just carry on as normal
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Everyone should read AIC 82/2003 (Pink 58)
AIC 82/2003 (Pink 58)
Indeed.
Also worth noting for UK ops., that even with "No delay expected", this means you can still be holding for up to 20 minutes.
NB: You have to register (free!) to access AIS...but then who wouldn't want to have access to the UK AIP, AICs, NOTAMs, etc...!
Indeed.
8. Pilots should also be aware that although every effort will be made to expedite their arrival, a call such as 'Fuel Emergency' has no status in the UK and ATC cannot give priority to an aircraft with a shortage of fuel unless an emergency is declared.
NB: You have to register (free!) to access AIS...but then who wouldn't want to have access to the UK AIP, AICs, NOTAMs, etc...!