Visitors flying to Baghdad must make quick descent (in F-28)
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Visitors flying to Baghdad must make quick descent (in F-28)
Visitors flying to Baghdad must make quick descent
By PATRICK MARTIN
UPDATED AT 6:47 AM EDT Monday, Jul 5, 2004
BAGHDAD -- Fight and flight
You won't find Flight 816 on any published airline schedule. The Royal Jordanian flight is one of two that flies every day from Amman to Baghdad and quickly back. Manned by a special South African crew with experience in many of the world's hot spots, the 25-year-old twin-engine Fokker 28 has the ability to climb and descend rapidly.
Its arrival at Baghdad International Airport is more like a carnival ride than a conventional landing. It starts its descent from 22,000 feet directly over the airport, beginning in a steep downward counterclockwise spiral, then banking right and reversing spiral, then left and reversing again. It makes a remarkably smooth landing before you know it -- although your stomach arrives a few minutes later. It takes off in much the same manner.
Are such security precautions really necessary? It seems so. A U.S. C-130 cargo plane taking off last weekend in a more conventional departure came under small-arms fire. One of the passengers was hit and died.
By PATRICK MARTIN
UPDATED AT 6:47 AM EDT Monday, Jul 5, 2004
BAGHDAD -- Fight and flight
You won't find Flight 816 on any published airline schedule. The Royal Jordanian flight is one of two that flies every day from Amman to Baghdad and quickly back. Manned by a special South African crew with experience in many of the world's hot spots, the 25-year-old twin-engine Fokker 28 has the ability to climb and descend rapidly.
Its arrival at Baghdad International Airport is more like a carnival ride than a conventional landing. It starts its descent from 22,000 feet directly over the airport, beginning in a steep downward counterclockwise spiral, then banking right and reversing spiral, then left and reversing again. It makes a remarkably smooth landing before you know it -- although your stomach arrives a few minutes later. It takes off in much the same manner.
Are such security precautions really necessary? It seems so. A U.S. C-130 cargo plane taking off last weekend in a more conventional departure came under small-arms fire. One of the passengers was hit and died.
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Indeed
Daily TriStar, DC-8 and An-12 flights does pretty much the same thing, sometimes on double or triple rotations. But since they don't carry PAX I suppose it doesn't count ..... but the TriScam did carry yours truly there not long ago, albeit on a slightly less glamours approach than the one described above.
Still got the remains of an A300 sitting in the Saddam Intl. graveyard ....
Still got the remains of an A300 sitting in the Saddam Intl. graveyard ....
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AN12's are operated (through wetlease) by Falcon Airlines out of DXB and I've seen the other AN12 sitting on the ramp in BAH so I guess it's a DHL flight.
Altough publishing certain procedures on the web is not the smartest thing to do I don't think these people can't find out this kind of thing theirselves
Altough publishing certain procedures on the web is not the smartest thing to do I don't think these people can't find out this kind of thing theirselves
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That's the same thing like in Bagram, Kabul and some other areas. It is not a secret for many many years, because it is designed exactly to lower chances being shot with RPG. The certain radius from runway is supposed to be "clean" and carefully watched by militaries, so the only thing you need is to be out of PRG range in terms of altitude when you out of this radius. Pilots operating into and guys with RPGs around these areas know it perfectly.
RPG ?? Wouldn't the primary threat come from guided shoulder launched missiles (Stingers etc.) ?
RPGs , as far as I am aware, are not guided and have limited range (~1 km) so only a threat on or very close to the ground.
RPGs , as far as I am aware, are not guided and have limited range (~1 km) so only a threat on or very close to the ground.
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Coastrider is correct. Operated by an Eastern European outfit, DHL has 3 An-12s doing various airports in Iraq. The Diesel-8 is covering Balad and Tikrit, not SDA as previously mentioned. The An-12s spiral quite well, or so I've been reliably informed.
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slice,
Below 10,000 if they got a stinger your dead anyway no matter what you do in a commercial jet. Only a self defence system will save you then. Even then it is highly likely you dead as well.
Below 10,000 if they got a stinger your dead anyway no matter what you do in a commercial jet. Only a self defence system will save you then. Even then it is highly likely you dead as well.
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If you'd say RPG are the biggest treat in Bagdad i'm just wondering if you're living on a cloud or so. Most attacks at ORBI have been made by shoulder fired SAM's SAM 7A/B.
The previously discussed procedure should also give a "bigger" IR signature so the SAM might get confused and miss. Altough this is purely theoretical since the exhaust of a turbo prop is milked out pretty much.
Altough certain captains from various operators prefer a high speed straight in....
high speed in a turboprop hehe.
The previously discussed procedure should also give a "bigger" IR signature so the SAM might get confused and miss. Altough this is purely theoretical since the exhaust of a turbo prop is milked out pretty much.
Altough certain captains from various operators prefer a high speed straight in....
high speed in a turboprop hehe.
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If they were really concerned with the SAM threat, why are aircraft not dropping out of the sky on a daily basis? I understand the threat, but I agree, posting of SOP's for getting into a airport such as Baghdad Airport, is not very bright.
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The height that the manouever into Baghad begins at suggests that it may be visible for quite some distance around the airport, ie, to those that are interested in targeting the aircraft...
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Remember doing AMC charters as a mtce rep in the MD-11 into OEKJ. Night approaches, all lights out below FL130 with landing lights only on very short final. Distinctly remember the spiralling climb-out (very impressive in an empty mad-dog on a 55 minute ferry to DXB!) but dont seem to remember any out -of- the- ordinary approaches though???
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Ontario and Lompasa.
Why do you think that this stuff on pprune so top secret ??
The approach to Bagdad is SOP - Standard operating procedures NOT Secret operating procedures
They have been in place since day 1 and your naivity is amusing that the bad guys read pprune then rush off to the airport with whatever they have to hand.
You will never stop these guys and these procedure jusdt give you the best chance.
They are only known to a few thousand people who work in this area
Why do you think that this stuff on pprune so top secret ??
The approach to Bagdad is SOP - Standard operating procedures NOT Secret operating procedures
They have been in place since day 1 and your naivity is amusing that the bad guys read pprune then rush off to the airport with whatever they have to hand.
You will never stop these guys and these procedure jusdt give you the best chance.
They are only known to a few thousand people who work in this area
Why should the nefarious ones about Baghdad airport bother with pprune when all they have to do is look up?