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Americans add more petty and useless regulations.

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Americans add more petty and useless regulations.

Old 1st Jul 2004, 09:06
  #41 (permalink)  
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Thanks for taking the time to post the facts.

I disagree with a lot of things the American Authorities have been doing recently, as do many Americans, but Iíll at least wait until I know exactly what is being proposed before criticising them.

If everyone else did the same this thread would be a lot shorter.

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Old 1st Jul 2004, 11:10
  #42 (permalink)  
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I have to say that this has been one of the most interesting threads to read in quite some time. Lots of US bashing without checking what the rule actually was, but also lots of counter accusations by Americans who didn't think to post what the regs actually are...

One post that has shocked me though...

Oh, hang on.. I think it has been deleted. perhaps someone realised that we HAVE had terrorist atrocities in London and Manchester...

Anyway - well done Huck
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Old 1st Jul 2004, 16:19
  #43 (permalink)  
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While the TSA and Homeland security is indeed responding to a continuing and present danger, even most of us "yanks" thinks it a bit OTT. However, there really is not much that can be done about it, at least at present.

Yes, the scrutiny is rather involved and at time quite ridiculous, considering that it is mostly window dressing, meant to appease the great unwashed.

For now, just take it with a grain of salt, as we have seen, from time to time, the Dept. of Homeland Security, can be reasoned with and changes have been made.

As far as immigration stories goes, I have travelled enough, to know, that they happen with regularity around the globe.
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Old 1st Jul 2004, 16:56
  #44 (permalink)  
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I think the reality of the matter is that until the war on Terrorism is complete, anyone travelling to the USA that enters into any port, can be sure of being given a close examination. Even as in this case, they want prior advance notice regarding aircrew.

I have also heard that passangers that want to submit to fingerprints, and other forms of biometric ID, will be able to pass through security with relative ease. This, I assume, is to speed up the entry and exit of people that travel very often. They can pass through security checks with minimum delay. Would this not be a good idea for aircrew? Then you would not have the worry about advance notice, security or immigration delays. Also, if you have nothing to hide, what are you worried about?
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Old 1st Jul 2004, 17:00
  #45 (permalink)  
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Oh dear, oh dear. Let's all get really uptight and start throwing our teddies out of the pram shall we. And we wonder why flight deck crew attract such negative comments from other airline staff.

Just to set the scene, I have been closley involved in the setting up of a Master Crew List for my company. Yes, it's a lot of work, no it won't stop the airline from operating and no it isn't the end of the civilised world as we know it. Once the initial list is set up it will be fairly easy to manage, and shouldn't take up a lot of anybodies time.

Quite why something as trivial as a list of names with a few details relevant to immigration should provoke such a heated reaction beats the hell out of me. You wanna be treated as a professional, then start bl@@dy acting like one.
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Old 1st Jul 2004, 21:07
  #46 (permalink)  
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prior to 9/11, as SLF I used to transit thru LAX and would go into the transit lounge. Now I have to get a ninety day visa to enter the lounge. Nothing else has changed except for the 90 minute line up. The exits are still alarmed, the staff still watch you, just as they used to. All this to wait while the jet is cleaned.
Now THAT is a regulation to complain about.

It has put quite a dent in the tech stops in Anchorage, apparently. It is such a hassle for foreign airlines who are merely gassing up there, many of them now stop in Toronto. The Doctrine of Unintended Consequences.

I am no fan of the TSA, and neither are any U.S. pilots I fly with.

My father did 31 years in this business, retired a NWA 747 captain, and if you had ever asked him to take off his belt and shoes (in front of his passengers, no less), I don't know whether he would have just laughed or slugged you. But now we just nod and mutter, while watching all those student-visa carriers traipse by.

But giving the TSA lists of "cleared" pilots sounds reasonable to me. Lord knows, it's hard enough to get cleared these days - a ten year FBI background check is just a start.... Might as well use the information.
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Old 2nd Jul 2004, 07:34
  #47 (permalink)  
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Not asking you to be one of us, there's already too many coming from the other direction. Asking that a proper measure be used to gauge the differences.

Based on the superficial criteria AB uses of fast food restaurant, big vehicles, TV programs, cost of houses, etc. I find no validity for the vitriol he spews. I find few differences in the areas raised.

Like I said there are differences but its not going to be apparent by the metric AB uses. Politics and social issues yes, the grandslam breakfast at Denny's however is cooked just the same in Calgary as it is in San Diego. The same gas guzzling Chevy 2500 pickup I covet at the dealer up north would drink copious amounts of gas on either side of the border.

As far as tv, I will say there is an excellent program I try to catch when I am up north. The exact name escapes me but its something like "the critical eye" or something like that. Quite informative in a biased type of way.
Perhaps AB should go price the house in Vancouver, especially the homes along the main road towards the airport. He might not think he is so clever after pricing those. As far beyond my upper middle income as some of the "shacks" here in San Diego. Something to think about, those prices are what they are because there are folks who can afford them, must be doing something right. Plus living in that "shack" means I can BBQ on Christmas Day in shorts. No wait, I'm junior I'll be working that day.


It must be a French thing. I think Homer Simpson was on to something.
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Old 2nd Jul 2004, 07:52
  #48 (permalink)  
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We have far too many bureaucrats in the US, maybe because of so many govt agencies, creating thousands of pages of paperwork, known as, eh, "productivity", if you really stretch the meaning a thousand miles.

So many of them have enough trouble justifying their existence-never mind some of those who deal with aviation regulations.

We all know that so many legalities often have little to do with safety or commonsense.

Just be patient-when foreign airlines alert the paper-pushing d**kheads that no standbys can be approved, and repercussions will take place (as they should) they will back off a bit. A TSA guy at Newark tonight told a passenger to take off his belt-I looked at the TSA guy and said "I'm not taking my belt off" and walked away.

Why don't all of YOU do the same and start standing up to them? Just do it and tell them that they can use those expensive govt-issued hand wands to scan you, and you must appear somewhat professional to the passengers. That's what wands are for. And NEVER let some creep (a Village People wannabe-is this too subtle?) ever again put his finger near the zipper on your pants. Simple. Never again!

Last edited by Ignition Override; 3rd Jul 2004 at 04:42.
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Old 2nd Jul 2004, 08:50
  #49 (permalink)  
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It is known as "closing the gate after the horse has bolted".

Typical American, overreact to every event.

The only way to react, is for our countries to impliment the same measures. That will level up the playing field.
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Old 3rd Jul 2004, 00:23
  #50 (permalink)  
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As stunningly cerebral as he is pithy.

I predict a long and popular stay here....
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Old 3rd Jul 2004, 00:46
  #51 (permalink)  
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Rocky Top.

My wife has a B1/B2 visa.
She filled in the forms, sent the pics and jumped the hoops.
Because I cant afford to give my pasport to the US Embassy in London for 3 -4 weeks I do not have a visa.
We came in through Atlanta a few weeks ago and I had to use the Green Visa Waiver form.
I sailed through Immigration but my wife had to stop and have a photo taken plus fingerprinted.
Bearing in mind anyone with a UK passport can enter on Visa Waiver, and unless you are actually in a cave in Rocky Top you will appreciate that our immigration policy has a FEW ! loop holes perhaps you could enlighten me as to the differences between a Visa Waiver and a Visa - or as Terry Wogan says " Is it MEEEE!" ( Sorry English joke ! )
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Old 3rd Jul 2004, 12:20
  #52 (permalink)  
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I can't see what all the fuss is about !

There's nothing wrong with a bit of American "bashing" - after all they have been at it for years because they keep telling us so.

and before you get jumpy, my username is a refence to an area of England called Yorkshire - a quaint little village on our tiny island, about the size of one of your backyards.
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Old 3rd Jul 2004, 18:58
  #53 (permalink)  
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As I see more of this measures introduced well after the event, the expression regarding closing stable doors after horses have gne comes to mind. It is fairly obvious that as we all seem to be forewarned, anothe 9/11 style event is fairly unlikely. However, this has been flogged to death in other threads.

The next event will come from a ship I reckon. An interesting development in the numerous ship piracy events in the South China Sea, especially the Straits of Malacca is the capturing of the ship only for the crew to be relased after the pirates have had a bit of practice driving the ship around.

Go figure!
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Old 3rd Jul 2004, 20:23
  #54 (permalink)  

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With the 4th of July approaching, I'm sure that many Citizens of the USA will be looking at their country and its Government.

I therefore doubt that I can or should contribute anything to this debate since many of their own people are doing quite an adequate job of critisizing themselves.

I will say this, it seems to me that we (the rest of the world) are dealing with two different US of A's, on the one hand, certainly I and I'm sure many of you, in this industry have met and made friends with many wonderful people from the US and we are aware of the great wealth and potential of the country. On the other hand many of us have to deal with a bureaucracy that seems to have gone out of hand and to have lost the ability to reason intelligently.

Now assuming that the same rule holds true in the US as in the rest of the world, where not necessarily all of the best and brightest people are occupying the offices of the Government machinery, then it is perhaps understandable that often times the "appearance" of taking appropriate measures to deal with a situation may be more important then actually achieving that objective. We can only hope that the passage of time will help to improve the execution of what at times seem to be onerous and excessive requirements, painted with a very broad brush indeed. I think we are already seeing some modifications to procedures that are making the passage into or through the US a less chaving experience.

I wish that I could contribute to keeping the USA strong and on an even keel with the rest of the world, rather then having to perhaps live to experience its position as the worlds dominant superpower being replaced by a rising economic giant like China!

There seems little likelyhood of the countries of the EU becoming sufficiently united to being much more of a "United Europe" then they are now! and judging from some of the edicts emanating from Brussels I am not sure that I would be impressed any more favourably then I am by those coming from Washington

Enjoy your Summer!
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Old 3rd Jul 2004, 20:35
  #55 (permalink)  
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Typical American?

There is no such thing. 300 million people don't think alike. Nor is there is a "typical" anyone. BTW Yanks haters, If it is so bad, don't come. Everyone else, look past any slights from the bureaucrats, I have done it for the European version for years. Come on over, visist Miami, go to the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone. The Pacific Northwest or New England in the autumn. Chance are you'll enjoy yourself...and the Euro is strong. BTW I was in Normandy via CGD for 60 years since the invasion. Thanks to all the French citizens that made my uncle feel so welcomed. In 1944, here lost part of his left leg outside Mortain trying to be a "typical" American...a 17 year old teenage Rifleman....off the boat from Eire for less than 9 years before fighting for a greater good........thousands of miles from his home....yup, typical American.
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Old 3rd Jul 2004, 23:07
  #56 (permalink)  
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A lot of football hooligans on this thread, too bad. Not really sure, but Manchester seems to be a hotbed of anti-Yank fervor, more than a few posters come to mind. Sorry lads, about stealing your girls I mean, we know yer sore at us. But theyíve made wonderful wives, dedicated, sexy and articulate, and have produced a generation of healthy productive Americans. Just seem to thrive in this climate I guess.

All such mud-slinging idiocy aside though, the TSA has a mandate to protect this country from further assault by the likes of Mohammed Atta and sorry down-and-out bums like him. The consequences of failure to do so have been set forth in the clearest of terms.

I regard this profession as one that requires a reasonably high level of intelligence, and as such, assume that most of us are capable of assessing not only the macro, but the microscopic magnitude of such a daunting task.
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Old 4th Jul 2004, 17:03
  #57 (permalink)  

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Overheard in a 30 to 40 yard line up for "security" at a large domestic airport in the US recently. A foreign national asked, "Why are the government punishing the American public?"

The answer is quoted at the end of Farenheit 9/11. George Orwell in "1984" wrote that the purpose of war is not to defeat the enemy but to keep your own people subjugated.

The American public has been had.
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