Unpaid STBYS for RYANAIR Contractors
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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Sick! You are spot on!!
No, I wouldn't feel safe, and thanks to three thoroughly miserable experiences as a passenger I wont be flying with "Mr. Grumpy's" mob again anyway.
Its one thing for O' Big Gob to abuse his staff, (albeit that I believe this to be not only unacceptable but potentially in contravention of aspects of employment law - it'll catch up with him in the end), who he pays, (some of the time at any rate), its another to do so to the people who are paying for the privilege of receiving the abuse that marks O' Loudmouth's stock-in-trade!
Advice:
1. Dont fly his airline as a passenger.
2. Dont buy his company's shares.
3. Dont work for him.
Lastly, I have every sympathy for his long suffering staff. those who say "just leave" simply dont understand the airline business. Never the less, i would be looking to get out if it were me.
Good luck to all.
No, I wouldn't feel safe, and thanks to three thoroughly miserable experiences as a passenger I wont be flying with "Mr. Grumpy's" mob again anyway.
Its one thing for O' Big Gob to abuse his staff, (albeit that I believe this to be not only unacceptable but potentially in contravention of aspects of employment law - it'll catch up with him in the end), who he pays, (some of the time at any rate), its another to do so to the people who are paying for the privilege of receiving the abuse that marks O' Loudmouth's stock-in-trade!
Advice:
1. Dont fly his airline as a passenger.
2. Dont buy his company's shares.
3. Dont work for him.
Lastly, I have every sympathy for his long suffering staff. those who say "just leave" simply dont understand the airline business. Never the less, i would be looking to get out if it were me.
Good luck to all.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Wiggy, you asked,
"Just a ( probably rhetorical) question: you imply no holiday, no money - isn't that illegal under EU law? ..."
I'm guessing it probably would be if you worked for Ryanair but as a contract pilot you don't work for Ryanair you are self employed effectively and paid by a contract agency (Storm or Brookfield).
This keeps MOL away from a great deal of paperwork & rules.
It also means you can claim a lot of expenses back in tax relief (even your initial type rating if you're clever about it).
To answer the earlier question about amounts
You work 5 on 3 off at home/nominated base (this base could be abroad, UK ones are Stansted & Prestwick & of course are popular & therefore not guaranteed) Alternate months you work 5 on 5 off at an away base (could be any ryanair base & changes month to month)
Pay is:
Captains €109 per block hour for home base month
€140 per bock hour for away base month
thyese are approx as I have forgotten the exact since I learned them a little while ago.
FO's
70% ish of above
Plan for min 800 block hours per year
This money is absolutely everything you get; you pay for everything else yourself - car pass, water the lot.
AT the mo' you can position anywhere anytime free on Ryanair network in uniform.
Anyone joining knows all of this & makes their own decision.
I'm pretty sure it's not for me but you can say one thing for them, they don't spring any surprises on you you know the deal in detail before you start.
Hope this helps
"Just a ( probably rhetorical) question: you imply no holiday, no money - isn't that illegal under EU law? ..."
I'm guessing it probably would be if you worked for Ryanair but as a contract pilot you don't work for Ryanair you are self employed effectively and paid by a contract agency (Storm or Brookfield).
This keeps MOL away from a great deal of paperwork & rules.
It also means you can claim a lot of expenses back in tax relief (even your initial type rating if you're clever about it).
To answer the earlier question about amounts
You work 5 on 3 off at home/nominated base (this base could be abroad, UK ones are Stansted & Prestwick & of course are popular & therefore not guaranteed) Alternate months you work 5 on 5 off at an away base (could be any ryanair base & changes month to month)
Pay is:
Captains €109 per block hour for home base month
€140 per bock hour for away base month
thyese are approx as I have forgotten the exact since I learned them a little while ago.
FO's
70% ish of above
Plan for min 800 block hours per year
This money is absolutely everything you get; you pay for everything else yourself - car pass, water the lot.
AT the mo' you can position anywhere anytime free on Ryanair network in uniform.
Anyone joining knows all of this & makes their own decision.
I'm pretty sure it's not for me but you can say one thing for them, they don't spring any surprises on you you know the deal in detail before you start.
Hope this helps
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sweden
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Its not the best place to be, but as someone said earlier on, the airline buissness is not a nice industry. As a permanent guy, I have an okey ride, but 98% of all permanent guys I know are looking for something diffrent...
On the other hand, I havent spoken to any contract pilot who came over to Ryanair just because he could, no he/she came because they were unemployed. It is a place to work, when you need to pay your bills, but we do have to stand up for ourselves.
A lot of people are currently leaving for other airlines and it will be fun to see what future brings to us.
Finally, regarding eastern european cabin crew... I am surprised, in a good way. They are polite, they speak good english and the seem to be willing to do a good job.
well thats just my two cents
FD
On the other hand, I havent spoken to any contract pilot who came over to Ryanair just because he could, no he/she came because they were unemployed. It is a place to work, when you need to pay your bills, but we do have to stand up for ourselves.
A lot of people are currently leaving for other airlines and it will be fun to see what future brings to us.
Finally, regarding eastern european cabin crew... I am surprised, in a good way. They are polite, they speak good english and the seem to be willing to do a good job.
well thats just my two cents
FD
This topic is sad reading for all professional pilots. It is unfortunate that it is an employers market at the moment.
I believe that any time on standby is duty time according to CAP 371 and probably the Company Ops Manual and approved FTL scheme. If you do not pay the crews they never appear as being on duty and then duty is not recorded in the FTL scheme.
IMHO it is your licence, take care because if there is ever an incident which may be nothing to do with you, you will take the rap and the company will exit stage left just as fast as they taxy the jets.
Get the hours and get out!
I believe that any time on standby is duty time according to CAP 371 and probably the Company Ops Manual and approved FTL scheme. If you do not pay the crews they never appear as being on duty and then duty is not recorded in the FTL scheme.
IMHO it is your licence, take care because if there is ever an incident which may be nothing to do with you, you will take the rap and the company will exit stage left just as fast as they taxy the jets.
Get the hours and get out!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
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As soon as you leave there will be another desperado who lookes for on the other side and think the grass is greener in Ireland and fill the gap for you. FR has a high revenue .... on pax money and crews!. It is included in the consideration. If 200 leave tomorrow there are 300 applicants yesterday......... desperate to geta seat in aviation and lower the price for contract pilots on the market. The passion aviation leads to the dump as long as MOL can fill the seats he will do what he did in the past.
NG
NG
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
A page 1 poster stated that Ryan Air pilots get paid ONLY when they got to work. If this is correct, how can the company schedule you for Standby (or aircraft washing/hangar sweeping/company manual amendments), UNLESS they pay you to do those duties????
Surely you might be scheduled to standby for flying, on certain dates, but if you have not been advised that you are in fact doing a flight at the start of that day, then you are free of ALL duty - unless the company PAYS you a retainer, to keep you available, in case THEY need you!
I'm certain that Ryan Air would be FLOODED with flash8's who'd do Standby EVERY DAY, for no pay, if they wanted them - obviously no-one ELSE wants flash, if he's making that kind of offer here!!
Another problem with this sort of system (where you get paid ONLY when you fly) is, HOW MUCH ARE THE SCHEDULERS GETTING IN GRAFT, FROM PILOTS WANTING TO WORK??
All sounds pretty Irish to me!!
Surely you might be scheduled to standby for flying, on certain dates, but if you have not been advised that you are in fact doing a flight at the start of that day, then you are free of ALL duty - unless the company PAYS you a retainer, to keep you available, in case THEY need you!
I'm certain that Ryan Air would be FLOODED with flash8's who'd do Standby EVERY DAY, for no pay, if they wanted them - obviously no-one ELSE wants flash, if he's making that kind of offer here!!
Another problem with this sort of system (where you get paid ONLY when you fly) is, HOW MUCH ARE THE SCHEDULERS GETTING IN GRAFT, FROM PILOTS WANTING TO WORK??
All sounds pretty Irish to me!!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Scandinavia
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For all of you at Ryanair wanting to get out, there are agencies looking for contract pilots on the B737, both efis and NG, to be based in Marocco.
Have a look at it! Perhaps even MOL will wake up when loosing a lot of pilots.
TFM
Have a look at it! Perhaps even MOL will wake up when loosing a lot of pilots.
TFM
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I thought the employer had to provide water for staff whilst in the work place? The work place for aircrew is the aircraft. We all know that water from the galley is not drinkable unless boiled. So, how does MOL get away with not providing water for his crew? I guess his answer will be "drink tea or coffee".
Seriously though, how is this being allowed to happen?
A grounded aircraft through dehydrated crew
One wonders 
Seriously though, how is this being allowed to happen?
A grounded aircraft through dehydrated crew
One wonders
>>I'm certain that Ryan Air would be FLOODED with flash8's who'd do Standby EVERY DAY, for no pay, if they wanted them - obviously no-one ELSE wants flash, if he's making that kind of offer here!!
I didn't say I'd work for no pay. I'm saying simply that if people are unhappy with their situation to quit whining and walk away.
I stand by that remark.
Yes i'd take the job, and to be honest so would probably the vast number of individuals in my situation (or even further down the food chain - they do exist - in droves!!) - those who say they wouldn't - well - we all know they would.
I defy anybody in my (or similar) situation to say they would refuse a 737 job even with MOL.
It's a dog eat dog world.
As for "obviously no-one ELSE wants flash" I'd disagree vehemently with that statement
I didn't say I'd work for no pay. I'm saying simply that if people are unhappy with their situation to quit whining and walk away.
I stand by that remark.
Yes i'd take the job, and to be honest so would probably the vast number of individuals in my situation (or even further down the food chain - they do exist - in droves!!) - those who say they wouldn't - well - we all know they would.
I defy anybody in my (or similar) situation to say they would refuse a 737 job even with MOL.
It's a dog eat dog world.
As for "obviously no-one ELSE wants flash" I'd disagree vehemently with that statement
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Sounds like you'd be better off frying chips for McDonalds than working for Ryanair.
flash8', go and get your head looked at
flash8', go and get your head looked at
Last edited by TonyR; 20th Jun 2004 at 10:42.
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bacardi walla
"So, how does MOL get away with not providing water for his crew? I guess his answer will be "drink tea or coffee"."
well u are wrong because tea or coffee you have to pay for it
which means MOL is making more money out of his crews-not very nice
A water cooler is provided in each base, not very handy when you are flying for 12hrs
Dyhadration is one issue but also safety is another if you think that all crews are expected to use the same water cooler(same source)
the end result is just pathetic
all that from a company that makes milions of profits every year
"So, how does MOL get away with not providing water for his crew? I guess his answer will be "drink tea or coffee"."
well u are wrong because tea or coffee you have to pay for it
which means MOL is making more money out of his crews-not very nice
A water cooler is provided in each base, not very handy when you are flying for 12hrs
Dyhadration is one issue but also safety is another if you think that all crews are expected to use the same water cooler(same source)
the end result is just pathetic
all that from a company that makes milions of profits every year
Join Date: May 2004
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Yeah guys, It’s easy for you all to judge such guys like flush8, you probably completed your initial training in better times, with less requirements to apply for work. I’m also in his shoes, got my CPL with ME IR and MCC in 2002 and still can’t find work. Surely I would accept RYANAIRs terms, and I even think I’m ready to fly for food and shelter, and not because I’m stupid, but despaired, I’d love to see my career get started no matter how. 
Oh come on. There are more important issues at stake than:
"So, how does MOL get away with not providing water for his crew?"
Get bottle of whatever with screw top. Drink same, then fill it up from the tap. Hardly effing rocket science! And whilst I'm on the subject, why is it that modern yoof seems to need so much damn water all the time? Clutching little plastic bottles wherever they go - never happened 20 or even 10 years ago.
Of far more concern are the issues of fatigue, Ts and Cs of contract and employer/employee liability. Mo'L does not come across as a caring employer and the business world is rapidly tiring of his Irish horse-trader's manner. Work for him if you will, but you won't get a huge amount of sympathy elsewhere if you've prostituted yourself in the process.
Other jobs are there - I've just secured a first F/O job for one of my young ex-students with a proper airline!
"So, how does MOL get away with not providing water for his crew?"
Get bottle of whatever with screw top. Drink same, then fill it up from the tap. Hardly effing rocket science! And whilst I'm on the subject, why is it that modern yoof seems to need so much damn water all the time? Clutching little plastic bottles wherever they go - never happened 20 or even 10 years ago.
Of far more concern are the issues of fatigue, Ts and Cs of contract and employer/employee liability. Mo'L does not come across as a caring employer and the business world is rapidly tiring of his Irish horse-trader's manner. Work for him if you will, but you won't get a huge amount of sympathy elsewhere if you've prostituted yourself in the process.
Other jobs are there - I've just secured a first F/O job for one of my young ex-students with a proper airline!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Flash8 I agree that its a dog eat dog world, but to be honest its because there are people like you that the airline pilots lifestyle has gone down the drain. I always hear about Ryanair pilots complaining, and never see any action. Why do you guys never do anything? Why not stand up for yourselves, hell go on stike if you want. Just dont continue as you are because its getting worse and worse.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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All good things come to an end. MOL has been flying by the seat of his pants for long enough! There is no end to the depths to which he will sink to make a sly euro. For example - asking passengers to pay for the use of a sick bag if they are unfortunate enough to be sick - how rude! Corners have been cut in every way possible. Aircraft have been grounded in the past as stress marks were detected in the skin. Soon there will be an influx of eastern european cabin crew whose english language ability may be questionable which has safety implications in itself! God FORBID it - but MOL should remember that pride often comes before a fall!!
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Surely I would accept RYANAIRs terms, and I even think I’m ready to fly for food and shelter
Last edited by TonyR; 20th Jun 2004 at 19:54.
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hey flash8, one day you'll be 59 and still making CAD53k per annum at HMY. When you're retired in your double wide trailer on your pittance of a pension, you'll be able to say to yourself, "yeah, I had a fulfilling career, flying for free and assisting in the destruction of a profession".
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cat 3a MOL is screwing his crews left right and centre. High time they took action for themselves. Prove that they have a spine. If 50% of the crew striked, what would he do? Sack them ??
Those water coolers are a waste of time as you say, especially if a duty is 12hrs in duration.
I wonder what MOL's next scam will be? Reducing flight pay maybe ?
Those water coolers are a waste of time as you say, especially if a duty is 12hrs in duration.
I wonder what MOL's next scam will be? Reducing flight pay maybe ?
Join Date: May 2004
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We are on the different sides of the line, you are in and I’m out, that’s why you do not understand us. It was in 94 when in just destroyed Soviet Union I was accepted in airway company as a F/O on Jak-40 , but when things got worsen older pilots started campaign of ridding newly recruited guys like me with success. So I’m sick and tiered of those that think we got it before you so we have more rights for survival. 