Airbus: 7E7 is rushed and ridiculous
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Here's an interesting read. This article from AIAA basically covers various strategies that Airbus might use to counter Boeing's launch of the 7E7. I thought this might be relevant given the initial subject of this thread.
AIAA PDF article
AIAA PDF article
ZbV
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Rotornut
Should that have been a 7E7 with all composite fuselage you would not have seen the type of damage as occured on the B747.
Damage would most likely have been repairable as it was in the case of that B747.
JJ
Damage would most likely have been repairable as it was in the case of that B747.
JJ
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From what I've seen of the new 7E7, it seemed to be desigened very well and this is likely just an Airbus tactic to draw attention to their huge A380 set to roll out of Toulouse in a few years. I am sure that Boeing would not allow for the possibility of an aircraft to have such problems, especially with increased European (and more recently, Brazilian) competition. Granted, they took a chance on the B747 and it paid off beautifully, but I don't think they have the same luxury for a gamble.
Last edited by BDANtheman29; 22nd Jun 2004 at 16:19.
Everything is under control.
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"The theory that future international traffic development increasingly will be given over to nonhub, point-to-point flying dominated by aircraft such as Boeing's newly launched 217/289-seat 7E7 is not supported by recent history, and particularly not by trends in Asia, where ultra-large aircraft like the 550-seat A380 will be in heavy demand for many years to come, according to Airbus VP-Market Forecasts and Research Laurent Rouaud.
Speaking last week at the Airbus Technical Press Briefing in Toulouse, Rouaud claimed that in the years 1998-2003, only one new route was launched between Tokyo Narita and a secondary city in the US or Canada (Houston) while four were suspended (Narita to Calgary, Portland, Las Vegas and Toronto). "
First, the 7E7 will have a higher percentage of it made in Asia (about 30% in Japan, as I recall) compared to the A380. The better the 7E7 sells in Asia, the better Asian aeronautical companies will perform. I can see that factor winding its way back to the selection process.
Second, Airbus's Rouaud using 1998-2003 for Japan route analysis is misleading, as Japan's economy was in a slump then and is now in recovery.
Speaking last week at the Airbus Technical Press Briefing in Toulouse, Rouaud claimed that in the years 1998-2003, only one new route was launched between Tokyo Narita and a secondary city in the US or Canada (Houston) while four were suspended (Narita to Calgary, Portland, Las Vegas and Toronto). "
First, the 7E7 will have a higher percentage of it made in Asia (about 30% in Japan, as I recall) compared to the A380. The better the 7E7 sells in Asia, the better Asian aeronautical companies will perform. I can see that factor winding its way back to the selection process.
Second, Airbus's Rouaud using 1998-2003 for Japan route analysis is misleading, as Japan's economy was in a slump then and is now in recovery.
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Personally I think the 7e7 will be a winner but for another reason than outlined in this thread.
At present a start-up airline needs to find 350 passengers to fill a 747. The inital market penetration required is huge.
The 217 seat 7e7 is much easier for a start-up airline to begin international operations. So if a domestic operator wanted to branch out into international flights it is much easier to do this by purchasing a 130m 7e7 that has a potential breakeven of 150 seats than a 200m 747 with a breakeven 300.
I feel that 7e7 will have a greater appeal: to traditional airlines as a hub breaker and to start-ups as a way to take on the majors and their higher cost structures on the heavily trafficed routes.
The A380 may be a great aircraft but there are only 10 to 15 airlines that have the market size and route structure to use a 550 seat aircraft.
At present a start-up airline needs to find 350 passengers to fill a 747. The inital market penetration required is huge.
The 217 seat 7e7 is much easier for a start-up airline to begin international operations. So if a domestic operator wanted to branch out into international flights it is much easier to do this by purchasing a 130m 7e7 that has a potential breakeven of 150 seats than a 200m 747 with a breakeven 300.
I feel that 7e7 will have a greater appeal: to traditional airlines as a hub breaker and to start-ups as a way to take on the majors and their higher cost structures on the heavily trafficed routes.
The A380 may be a great aircraft but there are only 10 to 15 airlines that have the market size and route structure to use a 550 seat aircraft.
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I agree. The 7E7 will be more appealing to a larger variety of airlines where the A380 is limited to the biggest airlines. This is a step in the right direction for Boeing: take on the competition first then work on speed (Sonic Cruiser) later and increased capacity (Blended Wing Body (BWB) later.
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It's the move away from conventional design that I find the most exciting aspect of the 7E7 as compared to the A380, which although as big and impressive as it is, does not really offer much in the way of progress.
Compare this with the 7E7, which will see significant changes in the way commercial jets are designed and configured: extensive use of composites throughout the entire aircraft, conventional bleed air systems replaced by electrically based systems, ability to alter engine/airframe combinations (eg. GE one day, RR the next), and the overall cabin enhancements. And they haven't even mentioned what is going to be up front yet...
Some will argue that such fundamental changes are too risky, however, let’s not forget that Boeing became the giant that it is (was?) by doing exactly that many years ago. The timing of the 7E7 may be a little early to fully capture some of the emerging technologies, but I have no doubt that that the systems being designed into the 7E7 are the way of the future. Airbus is kidding itself if it thinks otherwise...of course it is hard for them to say that when their biggest program is yet to fly.
Compare this with the 7E7, which will see significant changes in the way commercial jets are designed and configured: extensive use of composites throughout the entire aircraft, conventional bleed air systems replaced by electrically based systems, ability to alter engine/airframe combinations (eg. GE one day, RR the next), and the overall cabin enhancements. And they haven't even mentioned what is going to be up front yet...
Some will argue that such fundamental changes are too risky, however, let’s not forget that Boeing became the giant that it is (was?) by doing exactly that many years ago. The timing of the 7E7 may be a little early to fully capture some of the emerging technologies, but I have no doubt that that the systems being designed into the 7E7 are the way of the future. Airbus is kidding itself if it thinks otherwise...of course it is hard for them to say that when their biggest program is yet to fly.
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Ah yes of course, the A380 is only a bloated A340 whereas the 7E7 is the true innovator.
What about the high pressure hydraulics, GLARE, carbon fibre, cutting edge avionics.....even cabin windows that don't need blinds?
Yawn....I don't really understand: what's to stop your startup buying 767s/330s/777s? I hardly think there are many wannabee airline execs sitting around with business plans saying "thank god the 7E7 is coming so we don't have to buy 747s!"
What about the high pressure hydraulics, GLARE, carbon fibre, cutting edge avionics.....even cabin windows that don't need blinds?
Yawn....I don't really understand: what's to stop your startup buying 767s/330s/777s? I hardly think there are many wannabee airline execs sitting around with business plans saying "thank god the 7E7 is coming so we don't have to buy 747s!"
Self Loathing Froggy
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And of course, Airbus put all its resources on the 380 and is not working on anything else.
[Looks like I managed to kill this thread. But, for once, I find this rather pleasant]
[Looks like I managed to kill this thread. But, for once, I find this rather pleasant]
Last edited by Bre901; 25th Jun 2004 at 15:56.
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Airbus 380 too big!
Panama Jack's comment.
"Sure. . . . and Boeing and others insist that the A-380 is too
big! The war of words is on."
Question - What amount of force would move the 430 ton mass
of the Airbus 380 laterally, when struck broadside by a rotating
wake vortex, or strong wind shear in thunderstorm activity?
All the applied force, up to that point, would be absorbed in the
aircraft's structure!
There must be a limit on the maximum size of an aircraft. The
engineers have evidently failed to consider the effects of inertia!
"Sure. . . . and Boeing and others insist that the A-380 is too
big! The war of words is on."
Question - What amount of force would move the 430 ton mass
of the Airbus 380 laterally, when struck broadside by a rotating
wake vortex, or strong wind shear in thunderstorm activity?
All the applied force, up to that point, would be absorbed in the
aircraft's structure!
There must be a limit on the maximum size of an aircraft. The
engineers have evidently failed to consider the effects of inertia!
Last edited by wsherif1; 1st Jul 2004 at 06:12.
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Uh-oh, Mr wsherif1 is back with his heavy thoughts 
One is wondering, should this thread be left to die peacefully or should it be just moved where it belongs ...
|
v
No, no, not JetBlast but Spotter's balcony
One is wondering, should this thread be left to die peacefully or should it be just moved where it belongs ...
|
v
No, no, not JetBlast but Spotter's balcony
