bmi ballot (Pilots reject pay offer)
Why should pilots not be compared to other departments. Everyone is an employee of the company they work for whether they be the cleaner or the CEO. It seems to be some have the impression that they are more important than others in their company. The pilots may have task of transporting the company customers, but their are many more people that help them do it, without whom they couldn't perform their job at all.
I predict that there will be a lot of shouting, a lot of threats and very little action!!!!!
I predict that there will be a lot of shouting, a lot of threats and very little action!!!!!
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Why should pilots not be compared to other departments
I believe that this thread was started regarding the pay offer from the company, not a comparision of who earns what within the company because if that was the case the pilots would be very near the top.
In any profession some companies pay more than others, this is life, and I stand by my last statement on my previous post.
In any profession some companies pay more than others, this is life, and I stand by my last statement on my previous post.
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Keyboard, all we want is just above the average which is the going rate which the company agreed to then backed out of,as for compairing departments,I bet you didnt pay 60k to sit where you are so pull your neck in.Oh and yes I did it for the love of flying but if Id known how the industry was going to turn out I would have spent the money on some thing else
rgds K.I.L.
rgds K.I.L.
KIL,
It seems that some want more than others. The company has made an offer and some have had to accept that whether they agreed or not. Others have the choice as the unions are involved, although if those sections of the company get a higher pay increase than others, then what?
You could look at it, that after no payrise last year, there is one this, albeit a woefully inadequate one.
I would like to bet that the higher echelons don't get 1.5%, but think that the rest of us would be happy with their pitiful offering of a payrise that is just over half of the RPI.
As for pulling my neck in, I am entitled to my opinion as is my right, as you are entitled to yours. You may not like it and I my not like yours, but that is the price we pay for living in a society that allows free speech.
It seems that some want more than others. The company has made an offer and some have had to accept that whether they agreed or not. Others have the choice as the unions are involved, although if those sections of the company get a higher pay increase than others, then what?
You could look at it, that after no payrise last year, there is one this, albeit a woefully inadequate one.
I would like to bet that the higher echelons don't get 1.5%, but think that the rest of us would be happy with their pitiful offering of a payrise that is just over half of the RPI.
As for pulling my neck in, I am entitled to my opinion as is my right, as you are entitled to yours. You may not like it and I my not like yours, but that is the price we pay for living in a society that allows free speech.
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....if those sections of the company get a higher pay increase than others, then what?
I would like to bet that the higher echelons don't get 1.5%
the rest of us would be happy with their pitiful offering of a payrise that is just over half of the RPI.
You have not read the post properly have you?
This thread is not whether a pilot should or should not be paid more than, say, an engineer. Various positions in a company are always paid differently form others.
I will try and spell it out for you.
t h i s t h r e a d i s w h e t h e r p i l o t s s h o u l d a c c e p t
a 1 . 5 % p a y d e a l .
Is that clear enough!!!!!!!!
The question is - how do you think that the rest of the company employees would feel if the pilots got a, say, 3% increase?
Most, if not all, would be fairly pi$$ed off about it, and what if they decided to strike, eh? Not a lot would go on if ops walked out, would it?
If you are not happy with what the company pays you, then find a job that does, simple as that.
This thread is not whether a pilot should or should not be paid more than, say, an engineer. Various positions in a company are always paid differently form others.
I will try and spell it out for you.
t h i s t h r e a d i s w h e t h e r p i l o t s s h o u l d a c c e p t
a 1 . 5 % p a y d e a l .
Is that clear enough!!!!!!!!
The question is - how do you think that the rest of the company employees would feel if the pilots got a, say, 3% increase?
Most, if not all, would be fairly pi$$ed off about it, and what if they decided to strike, eh? Not a lot would go on if ops walked out, would it?
If you are not happy with what the company pays you, then find a job that does, simple as that.
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The question of whether one employee group should be treated differently from another one has been done so many times on pprune that it really is a stuck record. Yes, the original question was whether the pilots would accept the 1.5% which is now being balloted.
And there we have it, you are quite correct BUT the responsibility for this rests firmly with the company who have decided that a corporate pay rise should apply and that is at the root of all these problems - now I don't expect you to agree with that but most, if not all, would.
Most, if not all, would be fairly pi$$ed off about it,
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Go on strike and play right into his hands, you think SMB isn't smart enough to know that:
1. He needs a big pile of cash to invest in baby if it's going to survive
2. The long term future for a "Full Service"/High(er) cost operator at Heathrow flying exclusively on shorthaul is decades of struggling to break - even at best
3. There is a thriving and very lucrative market for slots at Heathrow, which will make the SE property boom look like the great depression if EU-USA open skies agreement arrives. (Why do you think Branson is gagging to get in first - it's not so he can fly to Paris and Brussels)
The only question remains is, how can he get bmi into a position where he can rip up his contractual obligations and start selling bits off to the highest bidder? Perhaps by triggering a strike and watching the company go under........... just my guess for what its worth, but of course, I'm not a pilot
[edited for incompetent use of keyboard 1st time round]
1. He needs a big pile of cash to invest in baby if it's going to survive
2. The long term future for a "Full Service"/High(er) cost operator at Heathrow flying exclusively on shorthaul is decades of struggling to break - even at best
3. There is a thriving and very lucrative market for slots at Heathrow, which will make the SE property boom look like the great depression if EU-USA open skies agreement arrives. (Why do you think Branson is gagging to get in first - it's not so he can fly to Paris and Brussels)
The only question remains is, how can he get bmi into a position where he can rip up his contractual obligations and start selling bits off to the highest bidder? Perhaps by triggering a strike and watching the company go under........... just my guess for what its worth, but of course, I'm not a pilot
[edited for incompetent use of keyboard 1st time round]
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Perhaps by triggering a strike and watching the company go under...........
Why do you think Branson is gagging to get in first
Fuzzy,
Is not the same increase across the board the fairest way. What would happen if, for example, the pilots got 3%, the engineers got 5%, ground staff got 2% and others got 2.5%. All those that got a lower payrise would create merry hell, even if it meant that based on salary it was a comparable increase for all, far fetched I know.
I don't believe there is a completely fair way of implementing a pay increase like this, but if bean_counters right, what then.
And for being on laminas ingore list, so what, if they don't like what is written they don't have to read it.
Is not the same increase across the board the fairest way. What would happen if, for example, the pilots got 3%, the engineers got 5%, ground staff got 2% and others got 2.5%. All those that got a lower payrise would create merry hell, even if it meant that based on salary it was a comparable increase for all, far fetched I know.
I don't believe there is a completely fair way of implementing a pay increase like this, but if bean_counters right, what then.
And for being on laminas ingore list, so what, if they don't like what is written they don't have to read it.
Uncle Pete
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The 1.5% offer is what the management hope to get away with,
bearing in mind the state of the industry.
In the past we had a 29.5% yes 29.5% imposed on us over two years when things were a little different.
The other problem is lack of funding for a larger pay rise in the event of industrial action. Here are three examples of where some of the money has gone:-
1. Anderson Consulting
2. Various automated computer crewing systems.
3. Quality Circles and all those free lunches at Donington Park
I reckon about £15million from these three alone.
Good luck with the negotiations.
Bezil
If you want to know how to start your own union drop me a private message
MP
bearing in mind the state of the industry.
In the past we had a 29.5% yes 29.5% imposed on us over two years when things were a little different.
The other problem is lack of funding for a larger pay rise in the event of industrial action. Here are three examples of where some of the money has gone:-
1. Anderson Consulting
2. Various automated computer crewing systems.
3. Quality Circles and all those free lunches at Donington Park
I reckon about £15million from these three alone.
Good luck with the negotiations.
Bezil
If you want to know how to start your own union drop me a private message
MP
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Is not the same increase across the board the fairest way
The way it stands at the moment is that only the managers have had the 1.5% increase, becase none of the unions have agreed to it. So it could be that everyone gets a different rate anyway as there are still talks with BALPA, AEEU, GMB, et al.
However I still think that everone will get 1.5% and the management will expect us all to be happy at their generosity and congratulate themselves with the usual remuneration.
However I still think that everone will get 1.5% and the management will expect us all to be happy at their generosity and congratulate themselves with the usual remuneration.
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Slightly off topic but related non the less, and thought ypu might be interested to know whats happening on the ground.....
The Dispatch Dept at LHR has lost 1/2-3/4 of their experienced staff in the last 6-12 months.
At one time, you had to be in the company for at least 18 months to go into dispatch and proove yourself worthy, now they will take anyone who can string a sentance together, after 6 months or less.
Result:-
A lot of inexperienced dispatchers sending you on your way.
Reason :-
People are sick of all the crap from management, no payrise (well a £300/year insult - or £25/month before tax !!!) , no proper equipment to do the job, blagging your way through each day just to keep the operation running.......(this is how a normal day at Bmi LHR is run purely on blagging it). After a while people get sick of banging their heads against the wall, and leave.
What other option do you have when the Station managements attitude is that there are loads of people working in Tesco's that would love your job - if you don't like it leave. But they have to realise there isn't that queue of people at the door anymore.
I know people who do the recruitment for ground staff at LHR and they are shocked at the poor quality of staff that are coming into the company, and they are the best ones they can get !!!.
Dispatch is one of the few positions that get to speak with almost all departments in the company, so it's not just you guys who are p
ed. It's everyone - You are not alone.
The Dispatch Dept at LHR has lost 1/2-3/4 of their experienced staff in the last 6-12 months.
At one time, you had to be in the company for at least 18 months to go into dispatch and proove yourself worthy, now they will take anyone who can string a sentance together, after 6 months or less.
Result:-
A lot of inexperienced dispatchers sending you on your way.
Reason :-
People are sick of all the crap from management, no payrise (well a £300/year insult - or £25/month before tax !!!) , no proper equipment to do the job, blagging your way through each day just to keep the operation running.......(this is how a normal day at Bmi LHR is run purely on blagging it). After a while people get sick of banging their heads against the wall, and leave.
What other option do you have when the Station managements attitude is that there are loads of people working in Tesco's that would love your job - if you don't like it leave. But they have to realise there isn't that queue of people at the door anymore.
I know people who do the recruitment for ground staff at LHR and they are shocked at the poor quality of staff that are coming into the company, and they are the best ones they can get !!!.
Dispatch is one of the few positions that get to speak with almost all departments in the company, so it's not just you guys who are p
ed. It's everyone - You are not alone.
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Regional ballot
Results from the Regional ballot are due on Friday, the CC told crews that the increase (sic) was to be imposed from the 1st of June so you might as well vote for it!
Needless to say it didn’t take most long to realise that what it meant was you could vote NO and still get a pay rise (of sorts?). The company has added that if mainline or baby get more than 1.5% ,then regional will get the same (so you don’t need BALPA is the implied message!)
Again its seen for what it is, they think everyone is either happy or stupid, the current betting is that the pay offer will be rejected by 80%+ and the BALPA vote the following month will be 75%+ in favour….
Oh happy days…….
Needless to say it didn’t take most long to realise that what it meant was you could vote NO and still get a pay rise (of sorts?). The company has added that if mainline or baby get more than 1.5% ,then regional will get the same (so you don’t need BALPA is the implied message!)
Again its seen for what it is, they think everyone is either happy or stupid, the current betting is that the pay offer will be rejected by 80%+ and the BALPA vote the following month will be 75%+ in favour….
Oh happy days…….
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Fuzzy, at bmi regional there is no BALPA recognition; after a ballot in favour this spring, the company decided to have an ACAS ballot held on the same subject- AFTER the current pay negotiation!
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It seems to me that salaries company wide don't seem to compare with the world outside of BMI.
Looking in the local rag's job section tonight a couple of comparisons:
accounts assistant £15000+, similar position within BMI £12500
internet bank tel agent £14500+, res agent BMI £12500 (these are basic salaries)
I for one am P****d off with what has been offered by the company for what they call a "pay rise", but can not afford to strike, as I have a house and family to provide for. The board know this and this is why they know they can offer £300 and get away with it.
I don't want the company to go bust in the hope of new owners etc as some people have stated, I just wish for the board to recognise the good job that all departments are doing and reward us for this!!
On another note, there was supposed to be a pc refresh scheduled for the company in the spring, money had apparently been set asside to pay for this. I have heard that this has been delayed, but am not aware of the reason.
How many companies of this size are still using Windows 95 today?
One last thing for all to ponder:
Aviance may strike over there 2.5% pay rise offer, are the BMI board expecting BMI employees to cover the ramp staff if they do strike, as happened a few years back in DUB? I can't see BMI staff being to happy to cover for people who are striking over wanting a higher pay rise figure than we have been offered.
This summer could turn out to be very interesting.
Looking in the local rag's job section tonight a couple of comparisons:
accounts assistant £15000+, similar position within BMI £12500
internet bank tel agent £14500+, res agent BMI £12500 (these are basic salaries)
I for one am P****d off with what has been offered by the company for what they call a "pay rise", but can not afford to strike, as I have a house and family to provide for. The board know this and this is why they know they can offer £300 and get away with it.
I don't want the company to go bust in the hope of new owners etc as some people have stated, I just wish for the board to recognise the good job that all departments are doing and reward us for this!!
On another note, there was supposed to be a pc refresh scheduled for the company in the spring, money had apparently been set asside to pay for this. I have heard that this has been delayed, but am not aware of the reason.
How many companies of this size are still using Windows 95 today?
One last thing for all to ponder:
Aviance may strike over there 2.5% pay rise offer, are the BMI board expecting BMI employees to cover the ramp staff if they do strike, as happened a few years back in DUB? I can't see BMI staff being to happy to cover for people who are striking over wanting a higher pay rise figure than we have been offered.
This summer could turn out to be very interesting.