Shock horror - Nigel has to wait.
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eyeinthesky
Keep the feedback coming.
Where I disagree with you is:
He is working to much higher mins than the UK airlines. Using an ERA of FRA, the idea BA (and JAROPS permit) is to consider, if getting short, "binning" the idea of diverting from LL as you make the FRA decision.
JAROPS permits us to commit (= plan to land without diversion fuel) to a 2 RW airfield which is CAT3A or better (!) from an hour out or so, and once the EAT is known, to a 1 RW airfield!
Problem is, you (ATC) do not know of all those aeroplanes going round & round, which have "committed", have said nothing because the EAT they have will just allow them to land with Reserves only (Reserves in practice is enough for a GA and visual or tight radar circuit to land before Tanks Dry). One more spanner in the works, and everyone of those quiet, holding aircraft may shout the M word...
We (as pilots) are getting nowhere expressing those concerns to our companies, and the CAA seem happy with the arrangement. The only arguments we can out forward are those from yourselves...
When an aircraft for LL makes an approach and landing without commenting on his fuel state, after say a 15 - 20 min hold, realisitically what do you expect him to be able to do in terms of GA / Divert / more Hold?
Best regards
NoD
Keep the feedback coming.
Where I disagree with you is:
From reading this thread, I appreciate that he was not about to run out of fuel over London as he had enough to reach Manch, but I still think that's cutting it a bit fine
JAROPS permits us to commit (= plan to land without diversion fuel) to a 2 RW airfield which is CAT3A or better (!) from an hour out or so, and once the EAT is known, to a 1 RW airfield!
Problem is, you (ATC) do not know of all those aeroplanes going round & round, which have "committed", have said nothing because the EAT they have will just allow them to land with Reserves only (Reserves in practice is enough for a GA and visual or tight radar circuit to land before Tanks Dry). One more spanner in the works, and everyone of those quiet, holding aircraft may shout the M word...
We (as pilots) are getting nowhere expressing those concerns to our companies, and the CAA seem happy with the arrangement. The only arguments we can out forward are those from yourselves...
When an aircraft for LL makes an approach and landing without commenting on his fuel state, after say a 15 - 20 min hold, realisitically what do you expect him to be able to do in terms of GA / Divert / more Hold?
Best regards
NoD
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eyeinthesky
Your best estimate is of most use to me personally. We can hear you passing new estimates to the aircraft joining after us, so we can get a bit of a feel for whether things are improving or deteriorating.
For those in favour of not committing, It is worth looking at the way the company have planned the diversion fuel. For example, the Go-around off 27R at LL ends up tracking 320 degrees and climbing to 3000', yet the company plans on us flying a MAY3F SID and climbing to FL90 to divert straight to KK!!! (Clearly this is not going to happen). With this in mind, it is possible that there are some people who are committed but just don't know it yet.
VISIT ATC
BRING BACK PROPER FAM FLIGHTS!
G W-H
Your best estimate is of most use to me personally. We can hear you passing new estimates to the aircraft joining after us, so we can get a bit of a feel for whether things are improving or deteriorating.
For those in favour of not committing, It is worth looking at the way the company have planned the diversion fuel. For example, the Go-around off 27R at LL ends up tracking 320 degrees and climbing to 3000', yet the company plans on us flying a MAY3F SID and climbing to FL90 to divert straight to KK!!! (Clearly this is not going to happen). With this in mind, it is possible that there are some people who are committed but just don't know it yet.
VISIT ATC
BRING BACK PROPER FAM FLIGHTS!
G W-H
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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For example, the Go-around off 27R at LL ends up tracking 320 degrees and climbing to 3000', yet the company plans on us flying a MAY3F SID and climbing to FL90 to divert straight to KK
(We landed at LGW)
