GB Airways Chief Pilot Shafted
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GB Airways Chief Pilot Shafted
Yet another show of incompetent management. This chap who has virtually built GB Airways into what it is today, is given the hoof for one of Slippery Bill's pals. His crime?, to dare upset Johnny Vegas by having an opinion.
Slippery's mate has no qualifications whatsoever and now all the training pilot's have to work their backsides off to fill the vacuum left by this fine, dedicated employee.
This is just another example of the idiot management intent on wrecking this fine airline.
People have realised things are so bad now and both pilots and cabin crew are leaving in droves.
Last one to leave put the lights out......
Slippery's mate has no qualifications whatsoever and now all the training pilot's have to work their backsides off to fill the vacuum left by this fine, dedicated employee.
This is just another example of the idiot management intent on wrecking this fine airline.
People have realised things are so bad now and both pilots and cabin crew are leaving in droves.
Last one to leave put the lights out......
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People have realised things are so bad now and both pilots and cabin crew are leaving in droves.
Sure one or two have moved on but that seems to be nothing whatsoever to do with AP leaving.
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MF
Not misleading at all. This is just the final crunch with AP being shafted.
This management is hell bent in sinking this airline and pilot's who adopted a "wait and see" attitude, have now said "that's it".
The recent article in Flight about regional airlines such as GB to adapt or die at the hands of the Low Cost Operators, exacerbates the position GB will be in a couple of years when BA don't renew the franchise.
The commercial department sit with their heads in the sand, riding on the past successes of John O, and are completely clueless where to go from here.
Watch this space.
Not misleading at all. This is just the final crunch with AP being shafted.
This management is hell bent in sinking this airline and pilot's who adopted a "wait and see" attitude, have now said "that's it".
The recent article in Flight about regional airlines such as GB to adapt or die at the hands of the Low Cost Operators, exacerbates the position GB will be in a couple of years when BA don't renew the franchise.
The commercial department sit with their heads in the sand, riding on the past successes of John O, and are completely clueless where to go from here.
Watch this space.
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Speaking as a regular passenger, i.e., one who pays the wages, my experience of GB is of reasonable fares, punctual performance and excellent cabin service, in fact, it doesn't get much better in Europe. Thanks everybody.
In case this seems irrelevant, my take is that the product is invariably a reflection of senior management and the direction thereof.
I might add that I have no axe to grind.
In case this seems irrelevant, my take is that the product is invariably a reflection of senior management and the direction thereof.
I might add that I have no axe to grind.
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Agree with MF,
Most of the FOs I fly with were very sorry to AP go. However, those same FOs are delighted to see a little movement in the Seniority List and the prospect of some more commands.
Re the cabin crew, some who jumped ship to FlyJet are trying to get back.
Not saying that all is perfect, just saying that all is not that bad.
Most of the FOs I fly with were very sorry to AP go. However, those same FOs are delighted to see a little movement in the Seniority List and the prospect of some more commands.
Re the cabin crew, some who jumped ship to FlyJet are trying to get back.
Not saying that all is perfect, just saying that all is not that bad.
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FC
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Quote: However, those same FOs are delighted to see a little movement in the Seniority List and the prospect of some more commands.
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What an arrogant and conceted remark. Your view is typical of someone going nowhere in life and will backstab any of your colleagues to try and better yourself no matter who or what is destroyed in the process. Are you perhaps looking to be a Base Supervisor or are you already a sad
?
I know how much AP was respected and I have no doubt that most of the decent people unfortunate enough to be in the same room as you, will tell you where to put those Four Candles
_________________________________________________
Quote: However, those same FOs are delighted to see a little movement in the Seniority List and the prospect of some more commands.
__________________________________________________
What an arrogant and conceted remark. Your view is typical of someone going nowhere in life and will backstab any of your colleagues to try and better yourself no matter who or what is destroyed in the process. Are you perhaps looking to be a Base Supervisor or are you already a sad
?I know how much AP was respected and I have no doubt that most of the decent people unfortunate enough to be in the same room as you, will tell you where to put those Four Candles
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Wow!
The movement I was referring to was the "droves" you mentioned, not AP. As I said, the FOs I fly with were very sorry to see him go as was I. AP was always very good to me and helped me out more than once. I have no ambition within GB and have no need to backstab anyone (I don't even know what a Base Supervisor is).
The impression you give is that the pilots are stampeding. This just is not true. Some are looking further afield but most guys quite like GB.
If I gave the impression that FOs were happy to see AP go I am sorry. What I meant was that the FOs are happy there is some movement.
The movement I was referring to was the "droves" you mentioned, not AP. As I said, the FOs I fly with were very sorry to see him go as was I. AP was always very good to me and helped me out more than once. I have no ambition within GB and have no need to backstab anyone (I don't even know what a Base Supervisor is).
The impression you give is that the pilots are stampeding. This just is not true. Some are looking further afield but most guys quite like GB.
If I gave the impression that FOs were happy to see AP go I am sorry. What I meant was that the FOs are happy there is some movement.
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Get a life guys, people get shafted in companies all the time inside and outside the airline industry. I am not saying it's right but it will always happen.
AP was a smashing bloke and well liked and respected within GB by the vast majority of both flight and cabin crew. Most are sorry to see him go. I also never heard a bad word said about him. I don't think we will ever get the full story but it must have been one hell of a tough decision for him to leave after 15 years.
GB is an unhappy ship at the moment that is true, mainly because management are not listening and continue to attempt suicide commercially, messing around with FTLs and rostering while at the same time eroding peoples lifestyle.
Until that changes crews will continue to leave for what they possibly consider better alternatives, right or wrong.
AP was a smashing bloke and well liked and respected within GB by the vast majority of both flight and cabin crew. Most are sorry to see him go. I also never heard a bad word said about him. I don't think we will ever get the full story but it must have been one hell of a tough decision for him to leave after 15 years.
GB is an unhappy ship at the moment that is true, mainly because management are not listening and continue to attempt suicide commercially, messing around with FTLs and rostering while at the same time eroding peoples lifestyle.
Until that changes crews will continue to leave for what they possibly consider better alternatives, right or wrong.
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Four Candles
I suspect that lick******* is a member of the cabin crew as I can't imagine a pilot speaking to another colleague in that way. I might also add that he/she would appear to be rather immature and intent on stirring up trouble.
I would tend to ignore any remarks made by such a person.
I suspect that lick******* is a member of the cabin crew as I can't imagine a pilot speaking to another colleague in that way. I might also add that he/she would appear to be rather immature and intent on stirring up trouble.
I would tend to ignore any remarks made by such a person.
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Don't know any of the persons involved here, but reading this it seems the individual may have left through his own choice, if so why did he leave? Is the company still run by ex BA chaps and their mates?
Whatever happens,.. happens!
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As one that does not know the company or the individual that is being referred to, but has been in a similar position, I'd like to offer this thought:
If a mid-level manager (which is what a Chief Pilot is) is popular with the troops under him/her, then it can be assumed that s/he might not be all that popular with his/her superiors.
Standing up for the troops is not a popular activity with airline managements of the early 21st century and may well lead to a parting of the ways.
The average airline manager of today is focussing on the six month bottomline and is not interested what damage might be done to the long term health of the company
If a mid-level manager (which is what a Chief Pilot is) is popular with the troops under him/her, then it can be assumed that s/he might not be all that popular with his/her superiors.
Standing up for the troops is not a popular activity with airline managements of the early 21st century and may well lead to a parting of the ways.
The average airline manager of today is focussing on the six month bottomline and is not interested what damage might be done to the long term health of the company
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Fdriver, quite right. Don't forget that the focussing involves meeting his KPIs and hence his bonus, not to mention his move upwards on the slippery pole. That all relates to cost-cutting, of which he is usually paid a percentage.
A popular CP, as you say, by implication cannot do both and, poor sod, is not long for his post. Lots more selfish, goal (loot) oriented would be managers below him ready with the knives though.
A popular CP, as you say, by implication cannot do both and, poor sod, is not long for his post. Lots more selfish, goal (loot) oriented would be managers below him ready with the knives though.
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I do believe it is possible to maintain the support of both staff and superiors - I've done it. Wouldn't it be rather a shortsighted attidude for the company to have to change any staff on a regular, if not frequent, basis due to at least training, among other, costs?
Maybe I'm still in an "ideal world".
Maybe I'm still in an "ideal world".
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Middle management is a very fine line and it is possible to create a situation where your are respected by the people below you working for you and the senior management above that you report to - not everyone is able to do this and it probably comes down to personalties...
The key is respect, there is often a situation where you are not liked, and you just have to live with that, but respect is a must if you need to succeed.
I haven't worked for an airline yet where the CP hasn't had some logger head coming together with the Flight Ops Director....
The key is respect, there is often a situation where you are not liked, and you just have to live with that, but respect is a must if you need to succeed.
I haven't worked for an airline yet where the CP hasn't had some logger head coming together with the Flight Ops Director....
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Do you work together?
As a military pilot I have been considering joining the civilian fixed wing market - but having read this last thread where most of you seem to be short sighted, unrealistic and intent on slagging each other off I think I will give it a miss! Do all airlines operate in this manner?
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I am one of those who is in the process of leaving GB and I can tell you that most of what is written on here is not very accurate. I am certainly not leaving because I am hacked off with the company as is being suggested here. Lickalo.... is not a pilot by the tone of his reply and also because he is misinformed about the facts.
I am a big AP fan and am very sorry to see him go. I would also like to say what a good company GB is, despite the current difficulties financially. From a flight deck point of view they are superb in terms of operational standards and are excellent employers. That is the root of the problem in that until recently there have been virtually no resignations which has really put the dampers on promotion. As one of the contributors said earlier - people leaving is actually good for morale because it creates movement. I fully understand people rejoicing at any departures because they move up the seniority list, and I am not the slightest offended by it.
The AP issue is however not as simple as it seems. As an ex-employee of GB I have nothing to gain by being positive about the company but I do feel a set of innacurate views are being displayed here. The basic problem was that until recently a company of about 160 pilots had 2 parallel management structures - one for the 737 and one for the Airbus. With the demise of the 737 that has generated 'overmanning' in the managerial sphere. A 'compromise' was attempted whereby all the current managers divied up the jobs and got new titles to explain away the inevitable reduction in workload and responsibility that ensued. The simple problem was that there was not the same number of jobs available as had been the case previously. In the ensuing bunfight another manager fared better than AP which was obviously very disappointing for him personally as he was much respected by all the pilots at GB. He basically took the hump and decided to leave under a compensation deal because he felt passed over. You can always say that these things should be better handled and I have no doubt there are lessons to be learnt. The bottom line is that in the final analysis the top level management at GB were faced with a difficult situation of trying to please all the managers in a shrinking pool and inevitably could not do so. They have clearly chosen the successor to the current Flight Ops Director and he is the 'heir apparent'. They have to make some decision here and sadly a really great guy lost out to another great guy. That is life but it would be very unfair to somehow talk of crises and blood on the carpet. My take on this is very simple - with the demise of the 737 there were too many managers and some people were inevitably going to have less responsibility than they once did. There is nothing more sinister to it than that.
To 'The Ferret' - I am ex-RAF and know exactly what goes on in the pursuit of ambition in the military. Don't be fooled by all that is on this forum - it is miles better out here!
I am a big AP fan and am very sorry to see him go. I would also like to say what a good company GB is, despite the current difficulties financially. From a flight deck point of view they are superb in terms of operational standards and are excellent employers. That is the root of the problem in that until recently there have been virtually no resignations which has really put the dampers on promotion. As one of the contributors said earlier - people leaving is actually good for morale because it creates movement. I fully understand people rejoicing at any departures because they move up the seniority list, and I am not the slightest offended by it.
The AP issue is however not as simple as it seems. As an ex-employee of GB I have nothing to gain by being positive about the company but I do feel a set of innacurate views are being displayed here. The basic problem was that until recently a company of about 160 pilots had 2 parallel management structures - one for the 737 and one for the Airbus. With the demise of the 737 that has generated 'overmanning' in the managerial sphere. A 'compromise' was attempted whereby all the current managers divied up the jobs and got new titles to explain away the inevitable reduction in workload and responsibility that ensued. The simple problem was that there was not the same number of jobs available as had been the case previously. In the ensuing bunfight another manager fared better than AP which was obviously very disappointing for him personally as he was much respected by all the pilots at GB. He basically took the hump and decided to leave under a compensation deal because he felt passed over. You can always say that these things should be better handled and I have no doubt there are lessons to be learnt. The bottom line is that in the final analysis the top level management at GB were faced with a difficult situation of trying to please all the managers in a shrinking pool and inevitably could not do so. They have clearly chosen the successor to the current Flight Ops Director and he is the 'heir apparent'. They have to make some decision here and sadly a really great guy lost out to another great guy. That is life but it would be very unfair to somehow talk of crises and blood on the carpet. My take on this is very simple - with the demise of the 737 there were too many managers and some people were inevitably going to have less responsibility than they once did. There is nothing more sinister to it than that.
To 'The Ferret' - I am ex-RAF and know exactly what goes on in the pursuit of ambition in the military. Don't be fooled by all that is on this forum - it is miles better out here!
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 15th Apr 2004 at 20:25.
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Dear oh dear NSF, your post really won't be popular on this forum. Well informed, balanced and down-playing the sensationalist opening post. No, this really won't do at all!
NSF is right on the money with his analysis of the situation, although I don't think AP had alot of time for the managers above him.
This topic should now close.
Good luck in your new job, NSF.
NSF is right on the money with his analysis of the situation, although I don't think AP had alot of time for the managers above him.
This topic should now close.
Good luck in your new job, NSF.