Professionalism and "inshaa allah" or what ever...
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THE...???? W*ankers
OK, you want to know what REALLY gets on my goat? The dreaded “the”. “The” Speedbird, (and increasingly) “the” Emirates... To my (non British) ear, it grates enormously, sounding like the very worst of pretentious Pommie posturing. Forget the religion bashing. Let’s have a real barney and discuss the use of “the”.
As for "insh allah" I always find it amusing when I get a position report that ends ..."....estimate $%^& at 0000Z inshallah!" and it must work 'cos I haven't lost one yet
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Is there professionalism in Middle Eastern airlines?
Listening to the guys at the Orval that’s got to be the biggest contradiction in terminology possible!
At least most other pleasantries don’t beggar belief by referring to a totally fictional character.
How about this tale told by a European captain working for a Persian Gulf state.
Having flown all night on a generally eastward track, top of descent and sunrise were approaching at roughly the same time. When the Captain roused the Middle Eastern FO in time for the descent and approach briefing he was interrupted by the FO getting out of his seat, locking the flight deck door and spending the next ten minutes on his knees in the corner praying to Mecca.
Consequently, the descent was started without both pilots in their seats, strapped in as required by SOPs. To cap it all, it would appear that the Koran allows believers to use a short version of prayer that does not require the use of a prayer mat, so long as they make up for it later.
The feeling is that RT should be kept strictly by the book, especially in Africa where ATC is basic if not criminally lacking.
Listening to the guys at the Orval that’s got to be the biggest contradiction in terminology possible!
At least most other pleasantries don’t beggar belief by referring to a totally fictional character.
How about this tale told by a European captain working for a Persian Gulf state.
Having flown all night on a generally eastward track, top of descent and sunrise were approaching at roughly the same time. When the Captain roused the Middle Eastern FO in time for the descent and approach briefing he was interrupted by the FO getting out of his seat, locking the flight deck door and spending the next ten minutes on his knees in the corner praying to Mecca.
Consequently, the descent was started without both pilots in their seats, strapped in as required by SOPs. To cap it all, it would appear that the Koran allows believers to use a short version of prayer that does not require the use of a prayer mat, so long as they make up for it later.
The feeling is that RT should be kept strictly by the book, especially in Africa where ATC is basic if not criminally lacking.
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I have a Marine VHF licence and was taught that you must follow proper procedures all the time with no extra bits and bobs slotted in.
Once I finally got to use the VHF for real world communication it became apparent that extending courtesies after messages was not a hanging offence.
Once I finally got to use the VHF for real world communication it became apparent that extending courtesies after messages was not a hanging offence.
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Swish:
Sorry, dude, but every time you post you sound more and more moronic. If you really want the airwaves to be 100% professional, you should campaign first to get rid of everything mentioned already - Hello, Goodbye, Morning, Evening, which I'm sure everyone hears much more often than religious insignia. Clearly no-one else in this forum thinks in a similar way to you, and also pilots with Emirates etc. don't get through their training relying on religious intervention. I expect they get through in exactly the same way as everyone else. Their professionalism is not in question, and if it is, then so is anyone's who's ever used a pleasantry on the air.
You sound banal and and just a little anal. Maybe it's time to put this post to bed.
Sorry, dude, but every time you post you sound more and more moronic. If you really want the airwaves to be 100% professional, you should campaign first to get rid of everything mentioned already - Hello, Goodbye, Morning, Evening, which I'm sure everyone hears much more often than religious insignia. Clearly no-one else in this forum thinks in a similar way to you, and also pilots with Emirates etc. don't get through their training relying on religious intervention. I expect they get through in exactly the same way as everyone else. Their professionalism is not in question, and if it is, then so is anyone's who's ever used a pleasantry on the air.
You sound banal and and just a little anal. Maybe it's time to put this post to bed.
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Hey TATprobe,
I've also spent quite some time in the M/east, in Kuwait Air and Saudia, so I do have some idea of what goes on,
As I said, I read the report, I am aware the flight crew were not taxiing the aircraft, I didn't say they were, but their saudia maint people were, and they are doing the same sort of things, trust me!
Whatever you choose to say, it was a total f***up!!!
Cheers
I've also spent quite some time in the M/east, in Kuwait Air and Saudia, so I do have some idea of what goes on,
As I said, I read the report, I am aware the flight crew were not taxiing the aircraft, I didn't say they were, but their saudia maint people were, and they are doing the same sort of things, trust me!
Whatever you choose to say, it was a total f***up!!!
Cheers
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Jeez SWISH, ignorance like that is only slightly less frightening than the displayed bigotry...the phrase you refer to is a very common one,used by most muslims and simply means "God Willing".If you've ever been in Egyptian airspace you'll have heard loads of it.I see nothing wrong with allowing people to say such things,as it is in fact a habit for many of them to tack on an "Insh'Allah" after most phrases and takes all of about one second to say,so unless your attention-span is shorter than that,you shouldn't be having any problems now,should you?
As for being unprofessional,dont you ever use pleasantries on the air like "have a good day" or such like? None of these are strictly standard either,but we all use them,and i've never heard anybody whine...Perhaps if you dont,you should get a big,shiny gold star on your forehead and 20 brownie points from the headmistress for sticking to the book....
As for being unprofessional,dont you ever use pleasantries on the air like "have a good day" or such like? None of these are strictly standard either,but we all use them,and i've never heard anybody whine...Perhaps if you dont,you should get a big,shiny gold star on your forehead and 20 brownie points from the headmistress for sticking to the book....
Green Guard and Rudas have a good point that maybe swish should look into. I also expect more negative repercutions if you dont be polite on the radio with a goodday or hello especially in africa and hey ive never heard of an incident/accident of someone saying gday and all hell broke loose because its not standard, or inshallah for that matter.
If you are out there campaigning for a safety then get out to west africa where Air France and other major airlines disregard english all together and it also happens in France. A Bonjour at the beginning is not the problem but a whole transmission in French is what im talking about. Makes a whole lot of good for situational awareness For foriegn crews dont you think?
MO
If you are out there campaigning for a safety then get out to west africa where Air France and other major airlines disregard english all together and it also happens in France. A Bonjour at the beginning is not the problem but a whole transmission in French is what im talking about. Makes a whole lot of good for situational awareness For foriegn crews dont you think?
MO
Safety you reackon
Swish
U just keep missing the point. I never mentioned anything about official. Im talking from a safety aspect which is the bulk of your argument.........
Pls stay on focus.
My main concern is safety!
Im sure 99% of pilots want to understand what is going on around them especially in a radar free environment (and even places with radar wont mention any names ahhhmmlagos) with shocking visibility. I think its a lot more unproffessional for a crew to speak in french when they hear english speaking crews on the radio approaching the same airport within minutes of eachother and also for ATC to follow suite. The other 1% thinks its more detrimental to SAFETY to say a 1 sec inshallah at the end of estimates (wont mention any names ahhhmmmswish)
MO
U just keep missing the point. I never mentioned anything about official. Im talking from a safety aspect which is the bulk of your argument.........
Pls stay on focus.
My main concern is safety!
Im sure 99% of pilots want to understand what is going on around them especially in a radar free environment (and even places with radar wont mention any names ahhhmmlagos) with shocking visibility. I think its a lot more unproffessional for a crew to speak in french when they hear english speaking crews on the radio approaching the same airport within minutes of eachother and also for ATC to follow suite. The other 1% thinks its more detrimental to SAFETY to say a 1 sec inshallah at the end of estimates (wont mention any names ahhhmmmswish)
MO
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If the airwaves would've been 100% professional and clean of all and any quickmindedness, the thread "ATC Humour" over at ATC Issues never would've seen any daylight.
Now THAT would've been a shame!
Now THAT would've been a shame!
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There is a controller I believe in Cleveland Center that greets all incoming with "welcome to my airspace" I've not heard him in a long time as I'm not in his airspace, but I never heard anyone bichin' about that phraseology.
Swish266, you better lighten up or you'll die before you're ready. If that's all that bugs you in life then you have a problem - get help.
As for the inshaalah, I don't see a problem with it unless YOU are being forced to use the same terminology, are you?
Ana maa afham (I don't understand), are your radio procedures perfect? If not, and I would assume that they are not, then before you critique others, check your self.
Nuff said.
Maa as-salaama, (Goodbye)
Oh, bye the way, I'm Canadian
Swish266, you better lighten up or you'll die before you're ready. If that's all that bugs you in life then you have a problem - get help.
As for the inshaalah, I don't see a problem with it unless YOU are being forced to use the same terminology, are you?
Ana maa afham (I don't understand), are your radio procedures perfect? If not, and I would assume that they are not, then before you critique others, check your self.
Nuff said.
Maa as-salaama, (Goodbye)
Oh, bye the way, I'm Canadian
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You’re right BusyB, but the “The” controversy is sort of amusing. The unofficial prefix has been around for more than a while. “The” Clipper and “The” Empress were sort of classy callsigns I thought, and nobody seemed to get too shirty about it thirty plus years ago, before I ever heard a BOAC type (or successor) use it.
I think some folks on this thread have far too much time on their hands.
Sloppy detail on the compulsory elements causes communication problems, and if the ATS unit concerned is fluent in the language used (usually English - mixed languages are an accident waiting to happen, my regards to ICAO), the greetings may help keep them interested and avoid the errors that tend to come with too much mechanical repetition.
When things are hectic, most folks stick to the salient details.
The entertainment value of THE topic is starting to fade, like the rest, into name-calling and tantrum mode, with a bit of a religious smear.
Ciao. Auf Wiederhören. Bonsoir. Chimo. See ya. Good day. Thank you, and all those other phrases that express simple courtesy.
They don't hurt when the frequency isn’t busy.
I think some folks on this thread have far too much time on their hands.
Sloppy detail on the compulsory elements causes communication problems, and if the ATS unit concerned is fluent in the language used (usually English - mixed languages are an accident waiting to happen, my regards to ICAO), the greetings may help keep them interested and avoid the errors that tend to come with too much mechanical repetition.
When things are hectic, most folks stick to the salient details.
The entertainment value of THE topic is starting to fade, like the rest, into name-calling and tantrum mode, with a bit of a religious smear.
Ciao. Auf Wiederhören. Bonsoir. Chimo. See ya. Good day. Thank you, and all those other phrases that express simple courtesy.
They don't hurt when the frequency isn’t busy.
Thread Starter
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Final Input
I guess I've made a good point.
Thank you everybody for your time.
Hope we all make it a bit easier on R/T for ourselves and ATC.
Good luck and safe landings!
Swish 266
Thank you everybody for your time.
Hope we all make it a bit easier on R/T for ourselves and ATC.
Good luck and safe landings!
Swish 266