Professionalism and "inshaa allah" or what ever...
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As abb911 says, it actually means (loosely translated) “God willing” or “If it be Allah’s will”, a Muslim version of the old Aviation acronym GWWP* that used to appear at the end of many a signal (who remembers signals?) in days gone by. (*“God willing, weather permitting”)
It may be of interest to those at both extremes of this debate that Malaysian Airlines, (another good Muslim airline) once issued a Notice to Pilots forbidding captains from using the phrase in their PAs, in particular when giving the expected arrival time. Management felt that giving the ETA followed by “in’sh allah” might give passengers the wrong idea of just how certain the pilots were about actually completing the flight as planned.
You hear it quite a bit on the airwaves around the Middle East, and it bothers me no more and no less than the “Good Mornings”, “Bon Jours” and “G’days” pilots of other cultures often start or end their calls with.
Where the phrase does scare the socks off me is when it’s used by a taxi driver to explain his utterly stupid driving. “In’sh allah” in that environment means “I can drive any way I want and I’ll either survive or I won’t survive – it’s all in God’s hands, and the way I drive won’t change things one bit.”
Anyone who’s driven or been driven in Cairo will understand how scary that attitude can be for a non-believer.
It may be of interest to those at both extremes of this debate that Malaysian Airlines, (another good Muslim airline) once issued a Notice to Pilots forbidding captains from using the phrase in their PAs, in particular when giving the expected arrival time. Management felt that giving the ETA followed by “in’sh allah” might give passengers the wrong idea of just how certain the pilots were about actually completing the flight as planned.
You hear it quite a bit on the airwaves around the Middle East, and it bothers me no more and no less than the “Good Mornings”, “Bon Jours” and “G’days” pilots of other cultures often start or end their calls with.
Where the phrase does scare the socks off me is when it’s used by a taxi driver to explain his utterly stupid driving. “In’sh allah” in that environment means “I can drive any way I want and I’ll either survive or I won’t survive – it’s all in God’s hands, and the way I drive won’t change things one bit.”
Anyone who’s driven or been driven in Cairo will understand how scary that attitude can be for a non-believer.
Last edited by Fubaar; 1st Apr 2004 at 09:38.
It's pretty normal. In any case my mother and grandmother used to say "God willing" a lot. No big deal.
The bit that used to confuse me was when the guy said insh'Allah after reporting the waypoint he'd just passed.
Perhaps an Islamic pilot could explain.
The bit that used to confuse me was when the guy said insh'Allah after reporting the waypoint he'd just passed.
Perhaps an Islamic pilot could explain.
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First of all I m very happy I got all dis feed-bk in less dan 24 h!
Tnx guys n girls.
As a matter of interest I timed what percentage of a normal estimates' report of 3 points is "insha Allah" - 7%!!!!!!!!!
As I said in my initial input saying bye n hi in d local language is not a prob. But relating my arrival at a certain place at a certain time to "God's speed or keenness" is an offence to my intelligence.
I wonder what would pax say if they hear the above from d Captain?
I used to fly in NATS and I know about the typical cra*p banter of american crews on in-flight broadcast and Guard freqs, but dis is a different theme.
Keep it rolling!
Tnx guys n girls.
As a matter of interest I timed what percentage of a normal estimates' report of 3 points is "insha Allah" - 7%!!!!!!!!!
As I said in my initial input saying bye n hi in d local language is not a prob. But relating my arrival at a certain place at a certain time to "God's speed or keenness" is an offence to my intelligence.
I wonder what would pax say if they hear the above from d Captain?
I used to fly in NATS and I know about the typical cra*p banter of american crews on in-flight broadcast and Guard freqs, but dis is a different theme.
Keep it rolling!
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As far as I know, Islamic teaching forbids one to speak of the future (as in estimate etc.) without adding the phrase as teaching is that it will only happen if he wills it. It is much shorter than the aaah you hear all day from one of the World's leading nations, so how about a bit of mutual respect and tolerance?
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Swish , Chill. Like you’ve never said anything unnecessary on the wireless before.
It’s nothing out of the ordinary for Islamic carriers to utter this and their pax would be thankful. Tolerance, Swish tolerance.
The crew of the aircraft that saw the TWA 47’ go down at Long Island uttered the words. ‘ God bless em’ Any Muslims want a rant about that?? ,…. No I didn’t think so.
Live and let live swish.
It’s nothing out of the ordinary for Islamic carriers to utter this and their pax would be thankful. Tolerance, Swish tolerance.
The crew of the aircraft that saw the TWA 47’ go down at Long Island uttered the words. ‘ God bless em’ Any Muslims want a rant about that?? ,…. No I didn’t think so.
Live and let live swish.
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WELL SAID OPS RETURN "GOD BLESS THEM ALL"
SWISH,IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE THE PERFECT PILOT IF I WERE YOU FIRSTLY I'LL TAKE A CRUSH COURSE IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE JUST ENOUGH SO PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TYPING .SECONDLY I SUGGEST INSURING YOURSELF BECAUSE WHEN GOD CREATED YOU HE CREATED THE PERFECT A*****E.
SWISH,IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE THE PERFECT PILOT IF I WERE YOU FIRSTLY I'LL TAKE A CRUSH COURSE IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE JUST ENOUGH SO PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE TYPING .SECONDLY I SUGGEST INSURING YOURSELF BECAUSE WHEN GOD CREATED YOU HE CREATED THE PERFECT A*****E.
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Ops Return
Unlike most of the guys who excell at English spelling on these forums, I am not a native English speaker. But from the flak they are shooting at me, I guess they get the point pretty well...
I belive one reason I got my CPL 20 years ago only after I did an ICAO approved course in Aviation English, is safety... It did not include though any divine refferences.
No further comment...
"Ins' Allah"
I belive one reason I got my CPL 20 years ago only after I did an ICAO approved course in Aviation English, is safety... It did not include though any divine refferences.
No further comment...
"Ins' Allah"
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I think Swish brought up a point for discussion; whether good or bad it has done that. His post is not all that different from the Brits on this forum who have been whining incessantly over the last couple of years over the Yanks misuse of 123.45, or their supposed improper radio phraseology. I wonder if Swish's post was designed to get some of you out of the woodwork and make you all realize how arrogant and p!ssy your posts have sounded to the rest of us.
Swish isn't even American and yet some of you have seen fit to beat that old tired drum "whaaaaa.... the Umericans are talking about the Dodgers on 123.45 again." GET A LIFE. Are you guys really as hypocritical as you sound on this forum.
Swish isn't even American and yet some of you have seen fit to beat that old tired drum "whaaaaa.... the Umericans are talking about the Dodgers on 123.45 again." GET A LIFE. Are you guys really as hypocritical as you sound on this forum.
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OK, you want to know what REALLY gets on my goat? The dreaded “the”. “The” Speedbird, (and increasingly) “the” Emirates...
To my (non British) ear, it grates enormously, sounding like the very worst of pretentious Pommie posturing.
Forget the religion bashing. Let’s have a real barney and discuss the use of “the”.
To my (non British) ear, it grates enormously, sounding like the very worst of pretentious Pommie posturing.
Forget the religion bashing. Let’s have a real barney and discuss the use of “the”.
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Dumpvalve
Not me, thankyou very much.
Why would I wish to be flying for THE Emirates? Is it the be all to end all? Dont think so. If you do, and are employed by them, may I suggest you make the most of it, while it lasts.
Not me, thankyou very much.
Why would I wish to be flying for THE Emirates? Is it the be all to end all? Dont think so. If you do, and are employed by them, may I suggest you make the most of it, while it lasts.
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Although salutations may not be standard phraseology, they may be argued to enhance safety of the air - with minimal cluttering of airwaves - by focussing the controllers' and fellow airspace users' minds that a new aircraft has come on frequency, or one is about to leave. That in addition to plain curteousy is one of the reasons I believe it should stay in use.
Your reaction to hear Allah on the airwaves is a bit jumpy it would appear.
Your reaction to hear Allah on the airwaves is a bit jumpy it would appear.
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Who needs JB when you can get childish squabbling and banter on the premium forum on Pprune?
As a humble pax I'm amazed about how het up you can get about a matter that is surely of trivial consequence.
Live and let live anyone?
As a humble pax I'm amazed about how het up you can get about a matter that is surely of trivial consequence.
Live and let live anyone?
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Everybody!
Pls stay on focus.
My main concern is safety!
Dont drift off to take punches at each other...
I raised d whole issue coz I feel that even if only 7% of the air time, d "divine ref" is a waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ICAO sets standards and we r obliged to comply. No matter if we believe in Christ, Allah, Budha etc. We must refrain from taking even a second of air time, unless it is directly related to d job.
I got upset coz I hear this more and more lately!!!
As somebody above said non-standard talk takes extra mental resources from the crew/ATC, coz dey do not hear what dey expect to. And a part (even if minuscle) of your brain is taken off the process of monitoring to solve the issue of analysing what you just heard.
Imagine if all the time we have to strain to listen to and comprehend the non-standard and non-essential talk?!
Go on! I like this discussion!
Cheers...
My main concern is safety!
Dont drift off to take punches at each other...
I raised d whole issue coz I feel that even if only 7% of the air time, d "divine ref" is a waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ICAO sets standards and we r obliged to comply. No matter if we believe in Christ, Allah, Budha etc. We must refrain from taking even a second of air time, unless it is directly related to d job.
I got upset coz I hear this more and more lately!!!
As somebody above said non-standard talk takes extra mental resources from the crew/ATC, coz dey do not hear what dey expect to. And a part (even if minuscle) of your brain is taken off the process of monitoring to solve the issue of analysing what you just heard.
Imagine if all the time we have to strain to listen to and comprehend the non-standard and non-essential talk?!
Go on! I like this discussion!
Cheers...