BA pension and pay fiasco
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Cruise Alt We are way past sympathy here ....we are just looking for the going rate for the job after years of subsidising the rest of the company. I speak for more than a few people when I say we don´t give a f*** what the bloke down the pub thinks or what someone´s granny said last week. BA mgmt and the rest of the company know what the score is . More importantly, the long suffering line pilot is starting to realise they are being taken for mugs by the mgmt and the rest of the airline , all of whom seem to have a very nice lifestyle , thank you very much. It will be interesting to see what they and BALPA do in the next 3 months.
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Yes I agree Maxy101
The whole of Ba's frontline staff need to focus, Especially the Pilots because whether we like it or not WE lead the pack on IR.
The recent BA Management presentation on the intranet was over 40% on the need for the crew to cough up cash on the pension front.
It was like an appeal to the good and great, WHY? Because they need the staff to approve the changes to go ahead.
The best bit was the praise given to Aer Lingus for their high profit etc.
Aer lingus still have their final salary scheme for new entrants with only a 7% employee contribution and still MAKE MONEY.
WHY because they have a strong pilots union that says NO when things are going over the top, even when times were hard they were not taken in!!!!!!!
Follow the IRISH PILOTS.......BALPA do not buckle,the membership expects it.
The whole of Ba's frontline staff need to focus, Especially the Pilots because whether we like it or not WE lead the pack on IR.
The recent BA Management presentation on the intranet was over 40% on the need for the crew to cough up cash on the pension front.
It was like an appeal to the good and great, WHY? Because they need the staff to approve the changes to go ahead.
The best bit was the praise given to Aer Lingus for their high profit etc.
Aer lingus still have their final salary scheme for new entrants with only a 7% employee contribution and still MAKE MONEY.
WHY because they have a strong pilots union that says NO when things are going over the top, even when times were hard they were not taken in!!!!!!!
Follow the IRISH PILOTS.......BALPA do not buckle,the membership expects it.
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Having read all the replies to the original post, all I can say is that BA employees are both lucky and unlucky. I am 19 and on a gap year working in actuarial consulting (in the cockpit is where I want to be!) and work with pensions on a daily basis. BA employees are unlcky in the sense that the pension scheme is not wound up and closed completely. That means there is a chance that once the bond and equity markets pick up the deficit will be reduced and perhaps wiped out, but that depends on the rate of increase of the scheme's liabilities. However, the downside is the increased contribution rates. If these are accompanied by increased employer contribution rates, you will be laughing all the way to the bank when you retire. If not, then I can only sympathise. You must remember that the value of a scheme fluctuates with the equity and bond markets and considering the size of BA's scheme deficit, I can empathise with the huge task they have of managing the scheme. I don't envy the trustees and the actuaries of the scheme at all.
Recent regulations do provide more protection for the scheme's active and deferred members, but the scheme's creditors, the tax man, and pensioners are better protected. The deficit of a pension scheme is calculated at a specific date, which in this case probably falls at a time when the markets were in the doldrums. At the next valuation, things should look better since market conditions have probably improved.
I must state that I am not a qualified actuary and am not liable for any consequences based on what is effectively my opinion. I work in pensions and am simply giving my views based on what I know. You should speak to a qualified IFA if you want more detailed information. I am quite happy to provide general information to Joe Public and give my opinion, but nothing specific. Hope this helps.
Recent regulations do provide more protection for the scheme's active and deferred members, but the scheme's creditors, the tax man, and pensioners are better protected. The deficit of a pension scheme is calculated at a specific date, which in this case probably falls at a time when the markets were in the doldrums. At the next valuation, things should look better since market conditions have probably improved.
I must state that I am not a qualified actuary and am not liable for any consequences based on what is effectively my opinion. I work in pensions and am simply giving my views based on what I know. You should speak to a qualified IFA if you want more detailed information. I am quite happy to provide general information to Joe Public and give my opinion, but nothing specific. Hope this helps.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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You are getting a pay rise. Better than most.
The company offer encompasses increased pension contributions as well (permanent) therefore we'd be getting approximately a 2.5% cut. Not forgetting they'll probably want us to work harder. The fact that a change in the law to allow us to exceed 900 hours per year is needed seems to have escaped them.
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If you want the going rate you should check the BALPA pay and pensions database. Take the statistical average for a pilot of a similar type then agree on the pay cut.
Look on the bright side fellers. At least BALPA can stop worrying about the pension cap for you hard done by milliionaires and get on with representing the majority of the industry!
PS HF - how many hours did you fly last year?
Look on the bright side fellers. At least BALPA can stop worrying about the pension cap for you hard done by milliionaires and get on with representing the majority of the industry!
PS HF - how many hours did you fly last year?
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Cruise Alt...Glad you asked...just checked FICO....840 hrs ...Tell me again what a great deal I have here....If I was to come back again, I want to be a BA CSD. Money for nothing and completely untouchable.
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Pay rise, what's a pay rise?
Company final salary pension scheme. What's a company pension scheme. In my company, retirement age for pilots is 60, but few of us can afford to retire then because of our wonderful pay (last got a rise 2 years ago). But, at least we're lean and mean, the company made a (fair and reasonable) profit last year and that means we have reasonable job security. It's time some of the people in some major airlines got real and realised that companies that don't make a profit go bust.
Company final salary pension scheme. What's a company pension scheme. In my company, retirement age for pilots is 60, but few of us can afford to retire then because of our wonderful pay (last got a rise 2 years ago). But, at least we're lean and mean, the company made a (fair and reasonable) profit last year and that means we have reasonable job security. It's time some of the people in some major airlines got real and realised that companies that don't make a profit go bust.
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As usual everyone knocking BA Flight Crew - Usual envy, usual easy targets. The majority of BA crew do a fantastic job and deserve getting better pay and conditions than they currently get.
Of course there are a few who let the majority down, but that applies in every walk of life doesn't?
Neighbor of mine is a CSD, drives a BMW745i and jokes about how much he takes home compared to the 'drivers'.
Of course there are a few who let the majority down, but that applies in every walk of life doesn't?
Neighbor of mine is a CSD, drives a BMW745i and jokes about how much he takes home compared to the 'drivers'.
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I see that The Independent has a front page story....
Amicus and GMB have said that they will oppose any pension hike.
Newspaper says possibility of a strike. I think that is premature myself.
It does show how the opposition is growing to this pension cash snatch, and not just amongst the pilots.
Rod will not succeed with this one.
Amicus and GMB have said that they will oppose any pension hike.
Newspaper says possibility of a strike. I think that is premature myself.
It does show how the opposition is growing to this pension cash snatch, and not just amongst the pilots.
Rod will not succeed with this one.
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The Final Salary scheme is what made the company attractive to DEPs.
What would be the point in joining now or when they recruit again- to face years in the RHS when people can go to EZY or FR etc and get a higher salary over a period of time?
Vasco, FlyingDutchman etc
SCCM (CSD equiv) at easyJet usually take home around £1600 if they work hard and achieve good commission. A lot of them have only done the job for 1 year (20 yr olds plus). They work hard and deserve every penny, as i'm sure the BA CSD's do.
What would be the point in joining now or when they recruit again- to face years in the RHS when people can go to EZY or FR etc and get a higher salary over a period of time?
Vasco, FlyingDutchman etc
SCCM (CSD equiv) at easyJet usually take home around £1600 if they work hard and achieve good commission. A lot of them have only done the job for 1 year (20 yr olds plus). They work hard and deserve every penny, as i'm sure the BA CSD's do.
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SCCM (CSD equiv) at easyJet usually take home around £1600 if they work hard and achieve good commission. A lot of them have only done the job for 1 year (20 yr olds plus). They work hard and deserve every penny, as i'm sure the BA CSD's do.
BA sh csd , works approx 18-20 days a month , on average 7-10 years in company take home approx 2700-3100 .
BA lh csd , works approx 15-18 days a month , on average 12-17 years in company take home 3200-3600 .
Source BASSA pay comparsions
, plse remember these are just average figures and just for comparsion a BA SFO on the 777 at paypoint 8-9 on an average month of about 19 days at work will take home about 3600-3800
Now tell me these csd are worth that sort of money when they get as much as a longterm pilot in BA
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Cruise Alt:
Without checking exactly, I managed around 630. However, I also had three months off work following quite a serious accident. Multiplying that up and taking into account leave would indicate about 820. Just before I went off sick, I reached the 'page' in the bid pack which gave a running total of 831 for the year to that point (rolling total). I don't do overtime or draft either!!
HF
PS: 5415N, have you been reading my payslips?
Without checking exactly, I managed around 630. However, I also had three months off work following quite a serious accident. Multiplying that up and taking into account leave would indicate about 820. Just before I went off sick, I reached the 'page' in the bid pack which gave a running total of 831 for the year to that point (rolling total). I don't do overtime or draft either!!
HF
PS: 5415N, have you been reading my payslips?
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5415N
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, plse remember these are just average figures and just for comparsion a BA SFO on the 777 at paypoint 8-9 on an average month of about 19 days at work will take home about 3600-3800
Well by my calculator that puts an F/O on about 80K PA,we all know the CSDs are grossly overpaid and BA are unable to correct it,however 80K for a F/O?
It came as a surprise to me, i would have guessed at around 50K to 55K,the SFO bit occurs by default i believe after 10 years ( for your info we only have 2 increments in engineering )
Quote
, plse remember these are just average figures and just for comparsion a BA SFO on the 777 at paypoint 8-9 on an average month of about 19 days at work will take home about 3600-3800
Well by my calculator that puts an F/O on about 80K PA,we all know the CSDs are grossly overpaid and BA are unable to correct it,however 80K for a F/O?
It came as a surprise to me, i would have guessed at around 50K to 55K,the SFO bit occurs by default i believe after 10 years ( for your info we only have 2 increments in engineering )
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Rimmer :
3600 x 12 months = £ 43,200 take home pay/year
assuming 30% tax loss (average for non tax element , 20% & 25% tax , and 40% tax )
gives a before tax take home of apprx £ 56,100 which is approx what a paypoint 6-7 SFO averages in BA also SFO2 starts at paypoint 4 and SFO1 at pay point 7
However engineers are also hounary pilots and valued as vital unlike the other people we have mentioned
3600 x 12 months = £ 43,200 take home pay/year
assuming 30% tax loss (average for non tax element , 20% & 25% tax , and 40% tax )
gives a before tax take home of apprx £ 56,100 which is approx what a paypoint 6-7 SFO averages in BA also SFO2 starts at paypoint 4 and SFO1 at pay point 7
However engineers are also hounary pilots and valued as vital unlike the other people we have mentioned
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Cruise Alt, anjouan et al,
I take it then that as you're so p!ssed off with your current employer you'll all be clamouring at the door to get in when the recruitment ads finally hit the streets.
Do please keep us informed how the interviews/tests go.
See you on line.
I take it then that as you're so p!ssed off with your current employer you'll all be clamouring at the door to get in when the recruitment ads finally hit the streets.
Do please keep us informed how the interviews/tests go.
See you on line.
Last edited by Vasco; 22nd Mar 2004 at 15:52.