AA Pilot Gives 'Come to Jesus' PA
Ohcirrej
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With the risk of leaning towards what Danny (rightfully so) doesn't want, there is a huge difference between Malaysian Airlines and American Airlines.
Malaysia is a Muslim country, simple. The United States of America is............
I have used Malysian (and Emirates for that matter) with the full knowledge of the countries they represent, and what occurs. If you don't want to see the "moving map" and the direction of Mecca, you can change the channel or not look at it. A P.A. announcement, WHOLE different thing (I suppose you could always put your fingers in your ears!). I tend to listen to EVERY announcement during a flight, fully expecting the driver to impart information reagrding the flight. But to also ask passengers to involve themselves is a step even further than a little too far!
Malaysia is a Muslim country, simple. The United States of America is............
I have used Malysian (and Emirates for that matter) with the full knowledge of the countries they represent, and what occurs. If you don't want to see the "moving map" and the direction of Mecca, you can change the channel or not look at it. A P.A. announcement, WHOLE different thing (I suppose you could always put your fingers in your ears!). I tend to listen to EVERY announcement during a flight, fully expecting the driver to impart information reagrding the flight. But to also ask passengers to involve themselves is a step even further than a little too far!
I would say :
Something Gorgeous in the City
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I think the point's best made by 411A in the second post on this thread - "AA at it again". I'm a Christian and I know I should be evangelising when I get the opportunity, but to do it as the official spokesperson of AA (which is what the captain is, like it or not, to that group of people) is just inappropriate unless it is the specific policy of his airline.
I take it, btw, that it isn't a policy of AA?
I take it, btw, that it isn't a policy of AA?
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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Despite 411A's advice I'm due to fly AA in the summer and would prefer it if the crew would not discuss religion over the PA, especially in these times of 'holy wars' and the like. I've not flown extensively with airlines from muslim countries but I don't remember any religious announcements coming over the PA. (They do blast out the prayers over the Tannoy at Cairo Airport, however).
As for the map pointing at Mecca, it is no skin off my nose, neither would it be if one of the PTV channels was showing one of those American televangelists that we hear about. That is all down to choice, the PA isn't.
As for the map pointing at Mecca, it is no skin off my nose, neither would it be if one of the PTV channels was showing one of those American televangelists that we hear about. That is all down to choice, the PA isn't.
The difference between putting a Mecca arrow on the IFTS and giving a PA like this is sizeable. After all, this was active proselytising, rather than simply providing the required conditions to pray for any pax who were moved to. Note that he tried to induce the Christian passengers to preach - now that is far more intrusive and aggressive than even reading out a prayer Saudia-style. (I know that if I was to be travelling in an aircraft when this happened I'd have jumped out of my skin with pure weirdness. I wonder if anyone asked to be seated next to one of the non-Christians or vice versa?)
mostly harmless
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Perhaps the pilot in question should seek out other aviators and managers of similar belief and found an airline (for US domestic services) that features compulsory in-flight religious instruction.
Personally, I would not choose to fly that airline but I understand that other people may have different views.
I have often sat next to lay preachers travelling to/from Africa. I wish that some of them could refrain from spreading their word.
answer=42
Personally, I would not choose to fly that airline but I understand that other people may have different views.
I have often sat next to lay preachers travelling to/from Africa. I wish that some of them could refrain from spreading their word.
answer=42
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Caused some bemusement over here too.
To ligthen things up, it reminded me of a friend of a friend's tale about "religious changes" from a one-time hard man military type who "saw the light" and by all accounts signed up for this religion and followed it devoutly. He was apparently doing something religiously out in the street and some yobs thought it would be fun to extract the urine from the "bible basher" and feigned interest in God's word. God will provide was a theme and the little scrotes thought it would be good to "bash the bible basher" to get the provision of God's holy estate and the said gent was unable to turn the other cheek and his former military training came in and he kicked several bells out of the possee in the interests of self defence.
Not sure how apocryphal that is, but was quite funny.
More seriously, however, I wonder what the lawyers will make of it if any action is taken against the pilot for his actions. And how long before the first "class action" starts?
To ligthen things up, it reminded me of a friend of a friend's tale about "religious changes" from a one-time hard man military type who "saw the light" and by all accounts signed up for this religion and followed it devoutly. He was apparently doing something religiously out in the street and some yobs thought it would be fun to extract the urine from the "bible basher" and feigned interest in God's word. God will provide was a theme and the little scrotes thought it would be good to "bash the bible basher" to get the provision of God's holy estate and the said gent was unable to turn the other cheek and his former military training came in and he kicked several bells out of the possee in the interests of self defence.
Not sure how apocryphal that is, but was quite funny.
More seriously, however, I wonder what the lawyers will make of it if any action is taken against the pilot for his actions. And how long before the first "class action" starts?
mostly harmless
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luoto
surely the pilot will be protected from legal action by passengers by his first amendement free speech rights. but that wouldn't stop him from being sacked, if that's what AA wanted to do.
I ain't a lawyer though
surely the pilot will be protected from legal action by passengers by his first amendement free speech rights. but that wouldn't stop him from being sacked, if that's what AA wanted to do.
I ain't a lawyer though
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Well, there was no malice here. Just an error in judgement with a captive audience. Still, the 33% boys are probably pulling their "rights trampled and only a cash settlement will heal my client's wounds" suits out of the file cabinets now.
Iconoclast
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Who's minding the store?
When the “Rapture” comes and this pilot is taken away hopefully for the sake of the non-Christian passengers the Co Pilot is Jewish.
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RiverCity
What rights? I don't see any right not to hear religious messages or indeed advertising / commercial messages. AA is not part of government, so no church / state separation issues. Now, prayer in the ATC center would be something completely different.
What rights? I don't see any right not to hear religious messages or indeed advertising / commercial messages. AA is not part of government, so no church / state separation issues. Now, prayer in the ATC center would be something completely different.
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answer=42...
I didn't say there were any rights. Just that some guy or gal with a briefcase will find a way to assert that the pax was (choose your term) inconvenienced, harrassed, denied enjoyment of the flight, distracted, offended, tempted to denial of faith, etc. Hey -- there's money to be made here.
The pilot made a mistake, an error of judgement, meant no harm. But I think I can hear cash registers ringing.
"I was afraid it might be a terrorist." ka-CHING
"Could think only of my loved ones and how they would miss me." ka-CHING
"I was so looking forward to enjoying the Grand Tetons or the Grand Canyon or the Grand Caymans or the Grand something, and he spoiled it." ka-CHING.
I'm sorry I'm so cynical.
ka-CHING.
I didn't say there were any rights. Just that some guy or gal with a briefcase will find a way to assert that the pax was (choose your term) inconvenienced, harrassed, denied enjoyment of the flight, distracted, offended, tempted to denial of faith, etc. Hey -- there's money to be made here.
The pilot made a mistake, an error of judgement, meant no harm. But I think I can hear cash registers ringing.
"I was afraid it might be a terrorist." ka-CHING
"Could think only of my loved ones and how they would miss me." ka-CHING
"I was so looking forward to enjoying the Grand Tetons or the Grand Canyon or the Grand Caymans or the Grand something, and he spoiled it." ka-CHING.
I'm sorry I'm so cynical.
ka-CHING.
Thread Starter
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Another update on the story from CNN:
Passengers: Pilot promotes faith on flight
Monday, February 9, 2004 Posted: 12:01 PM EST (1701 GMT)
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A pilot asked passengers on an American Airlines flight to identify themselves as Christians, calling those who aren't "crazy," some of the passengers said Monday.
The airline is investigating reports about the incident onboard Flight 34 from Los Angeles, California, to New York on Friday, a company spokesman said.
In a statement, the airline said, "It falls along the lines of a personal level of sharing that may not be appropriate for one of our employees to do while on the job."
Passenger Jen Dorsey told CNN's "American Morning," "We were just at the beginning of our flight. The pilot came on to greet everyone and give his comments for the morning, and he said he'd recently been on a mission trip, and he'd like all the Christians to please raise their hands."
Fellow passenger Karla Austin said, "He said, 'If you are a Christian, raise your hand.' He said, 'If you are not, you're crazy.' "
Dorsey nodded her head in agreement that the pilot had used the word "crazy."
No passengers raised their hands, Austin said.
The pilot asked passengers to look around at each other and use their 4 1/2-hour flight wisely or "just sit back and watch the movie," Dorsey recalled.
Austin said passengers were shocked. Some reached for their mobile phones and others used the on-flight phones, she said.
"Just given the history of what's happened on planes in this country, anything can happen at this point, " Austin said. "So we weren't sure if something was going to happen at takeoff, if he was going to wait until JFK [John F. Kennedy Airport] to do something. But there was definitely implication there that we felt that something was going to happen."
Passengers complained to the flight attendants, who relayed their concerns to the cockpit, and then reassured them they had no nothing to worry about on the flight, Austin said.
Attendants also told passengers they had contacted airline officials about the matter and that the purser was talking to the pilot, she said.
About 45 minutes into the flight, the pilot came back on and apologized -- but his apology focused on the crew, not the passengers, Dorsey said.
"He came on and said, 'I want to apologize for my comments earlier. I think I really threw the flight crew off a little bit, and they are getting a lot of flack for the things I said. So I want to apologize to my flight crew,' " she said.
On her way off the plane, Austin said she told the pilot "he should be ashamed of himself."
"He just nodded and looked to the ground, and that was it," she said.
Airline spokesman Tim Kincaid said Sunday the pilot recently had returned from a mission trip to Costa Rica. If an investigation proves the allegations true, the incident "would be against our policy," the spokesman said.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TRAVEL/02/09...ity/index.html
Passengers: Pilot promotes faith on flight
Monday, February 9, 2004 Posted: 12:01 PM EST (1701 GMT)
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A pilot asked passengers on an American Airlines flight to identify themselves as Christians, calling those who aren't "crazy," some of the passengers said Monday.
The airline is investigating reports about the incident onboard Flight 34 from Los Angeles, California, to New York on Friday, a company spokesman said.
In a statement, the airline said, "It falls along the lines of a personal level of sharing that may not be appropriate for one of our employees to do while on the job."
Passenger Jen Dorsey told CNN's "American Morning," "We were just at the beginning of our flight. The pilot came on to greet everyone and give his comments for the morning, and he said he'd recently been on a mission trip, and he'd like all the Christians to please raise their hands."
Fellow passenger Karla Austin said, "He said, 'If you are a Christian, raise your hand.' He said, 'If you are not, you're crazy.' "
Dorsey nodded her head in agreement that the pilot had used the word "crazy."
No passengers raised their hands, Austin said.
The pilot asked passengers to look around at each other and use their 4 1/2-hour flight wisely or "just sit back and watch the movie," Dorsey recalled.
Austin said passengers were shocked. Some reached for their mobile phones and others used the on-flight phones, she said.
"Just given the history of what's happened on planes in this country, anything can happen at this point, " Austin said. "So we weren't sure if something was going to happen at takeoff, if he was going to wait until JFK [John F. Kennedy Airport] to do something. But there was definitely implication there that we felt that something was going to happen."
Passengers complained to the flight attendants, who relayed their concerns to the cockpit, and then reassured them they had no nothing to worry about on the flight, Austin said.
Attendants also told passengers they had contacted airline officials about the matter and that the purser was talking to the pilot, she said.
About 45 minutes into the flight, the pilot came back on and apologized -- but his apology focused on the crew, not the passengers, Dorsey said.
"He came on and said, 'I want to apologize for my comments earlier. I think I really threw the flight crew off a little bit, and they are getting a lot of flack for the things I said. So I want to apologize to my flight crew,' " she said.
On her way off the plane, Austin said she told the pilot "he should be ashamed of himself."
"He just nodded and looked to the ground, and that was it," she said.
Airline spokesman Tim Kincaid said Sunday the pilot recently had returned from a mission trip to Costa Rica. If an investigation proves the allegations true, the incident "would be against our policy," the spokesman said.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TRAVEL/02/09...ity/index.html
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Thanks
Speaking as an attorney, I'cant say how glad to here of this pilots expressions in an inappropriate forum. Bye the way, if any of you are interested in a second career, pilots are always welcome in law school, if not that as professional witnesses.
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>>Speaking as an attorney, I'cant say how glad to here of this pilots expressions in an inappropriate forum.<<
You must be an Aggie Law School graduate with that distinctive spelling, grammar and punctuation <g>.
You must be an Aggie Law School graduate with that distinctive spelling, grammar and punctuation <g>.
