British Airways Citiexpress
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BRAL,
You have got to be joking.
If non members want to take all the disruption payments etc. that BALPA worked so hard for that is one thing. That I should see my subscription increase because these parasites want me to also pay for the postage and stationary cost of distributing thousands of news letters each year is quite another.
Outbacker - two years ago you may have been right but the industry and our company is now in a much better position.There is rarely a good time to strike;now would be as good as most.That said after much consideration I voted NO ; not because I was worried by the managements "end of the world" rhetoric (which is taught in most decent management schools). I read Tims letter ,went to his roadshow and decided to give him the benefit of the doubt one last time. If we do not get a cost of living increase then I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong.
You have got to be joking.
If non members want to take all the disruption payments etc. that BALPA worked so hard for that is one thing. That I should see my subscription increase because these parasites want me to also pay for the postage and stationary cost of distributing thousands of news letters each year is quite another.
Outbacker - two years ago you may have been right but the industry and our company is now in a much better position.There is rarely a good time to strike;now would be as good as most.That said after much consideration I voted NO ; not because I was worried by the managements "end of the world" rhetoric (which is taught in most decent management schools). I read Tims letter ,went to his roadshow and decided to give him the benefit of the doubt one last time. If we do not get a cost of living increase then I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong.
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Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about this vote.
The title was "CONSULTATIVE BALLOT"
i.e. do you support the BACX CC
The title was NOT "STRIKE BALLOT"
Quite simple really if you bothered to read the attached newsletter. For those who did not, a couple of quotes:
"It annexes a consultative questionnaire which is an important step towards a possible Industrial action ballot. We ask that you return it and indicate support for your colleagues on the Company Council who have been working tirelessly, in an effort to resolve these issues to no avail." and
"The attached Consultative Ballot is not a mandate for Industrial action. It is however a step in the process."
The title was "CONSULTATIVE BALLOT"
i.e. do you support the BACX CC
The title was NOT "STRIKE BALLOT"
Quite simple really if you bothered to read the attached newsletter. For those who did not, a couple of quotes:
"It annexes a consultative questionnaire which is an important step towards a possible Industrial action ballot. We ask that you return it and indicate support for your colleagues on the Company Council who have been working tirelessly, in an effort to resolve these issues to no avail." and
"The attached Consultative Ballot is not a mandate for Industrial action. It is however a step in the process."
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70% of BALPA members returned their ballots.
69% of those returned votes were YES votes.
Therefore, only 48% of BALPA members voted YES
Arelix as you say this was a Consultative Ballot ie. do members support the BACX CC? With only 48% of BALPA members voting YES it sounds like the CC has lost a vote of confidence.
69% of those returned votes were YES votes.
Therefore, only 48% of BALPA members voted YES
Arelix as you say this was a Consultative Ballot ie. do members support the BACX CC? With only 48% of BALPA members voting YES it sounds like the CC has lost a vote of confidence.
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False Capture - I voted no (and I am well aware of what I was voting for) but I do have confidence in the BACX CC.
My no vote was because I decided to give TDLF one last chance to come good.
I speak to the guys who voted yes day in day out...be in no doubt that this was not just to give management a bloody nose;a lot of these guys are sick of the way the company is being run and do actually want to start a co-ordinated series of one day strikes. Let us hope it does not come to that.
My no vote was because I decided to give TDLF one last chance to come good.
I speak to the guys who voted yes day in day out...be in no doubt that this was not just to give management a bloody nose;a lot of these guys are sick of the way the company is being run and do actually want to start a co-ordinated series of one day strikes. Let us hope it does not come to that.
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"I speak to the guys who voted yes day in day out...be in no doubt that this was not just to give management a bloody nose;a lot of these guys are sick of the way the company is being run and do actually want to start a co-ordinated series of one day strikes. Let us hope it does not come to that."
Let us hope so indeed, since only one third of the BACX pilot workforce seem to want it! (Though I agree, one third is a very significant, if vocal, minority!)
Filtonman, I suspect, if more people had gone along to the roadshows, they may also have been persuaded that the GMFO is not quite the personification of evil incompetence, the CC may have them believe!
Anyway, there it is. All done and dusted. Perhaps grown up discussions can now resume?
I did say, perhaps!
Let us hope so indeed, since only one third of the BACX pilot workforce seem to want it! (Though I agree, one third is a very significant, if vocal, minority!)
Filtonman, I suspect, if more people had gone along to the roadshows, they may also have been persuaded that the GMFO is not quite the personification of evil incompetence, the CC may have them believe!
Anyway, there it is. All done and dusted. Perhaps grown up discussions can now resume?
I did say, perhaps!
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Arelix,
"conversely less than 22% voted NO, however you cut the cake in ballot terms it was a resounding YES, it would be naive to suggest otherwise."
I'm not being naive and I am suggesting otherwise.
48% voted YES
52% either voted NO or couldn't care less
I bet TDLF isn't too upset with the result, his post on the BACX Intercom seemed to be fairly up-beat. At the end of the day the ballot has demonstrated the BACX CC's inexperience in conducting itself (through normal discussions and through ballots). I sympathise with BACX pilots. To this end, as Tandemrotor said there is a danger with crying "WOLF". After the first cry surely there should have been more support than 48% of BALPA members. How much support will your CC have next time it cries 'WOLF'?
"conversely less than 22% voted NO, however you cut the cake in ballot terms it was a resounding YES, it would be naive to suggest otherwise."
I'm not being naive and I am suggesting otherwise.
48% voted YES
52% either voted NO or couldn't care less
I bet TDLF isn't too upset with the result, his post on the BACX Intercom seemed to be fairly up-beat. At the end of the day the ballot has demonstrated the BACX CC's inexperience in conducting itself (through normal discussions and through ballots). I sympathise with BACX pilots. To this end, as Tandemrotor said there is a danger with crying "WOLF". After the first cry surely there should have been more support than 48% of BALPA members. How much support will your CC have next time it cries 'WOLF'?
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Tandem Rotor and False Capture, you can play with percentages and figures till the cows come home, for example, one could argue that more than 62% of the ENTIRE pilot workforce were either prepared to support the action of the BACX CC or let it go unopposed . This figure would have been higher had the 21% of the BACX pilots who are non BALPA members been eligible to vote.
Whatever your take on it, and which way you want to spin it, the vote has highlighted that for the first time in the history of BACX or in either of the founding companies ( MANX/BRAL and BRYMON ), that moderates have been driven towards militancy to such an extent that they have been prepared to stand up and say enough is enough. It would be foolishness of the highest order to interpret the result in any other way.
The problems need to be accepted as real. Like a recovering alcoholic, the end of denial is the first stage of recovery.
Finally, I really hope that both of you are not involved in the Management side of our Company, because if you are, we’re not going to get anywhere.
DS
Whatever your take on it, and which way you want to spin it, the vote has highlighted that for the first time in the history of BACX or in either of the founding companies ( MANX/BRAL and BRYMON ), that moderates have been driven towards militancy to such an extent that they have been prepared to stand up and say enough is enough. It would be foolishness of the highest order to interpret the result in any other way.
The problems need to be accepted as real. Like a recovering alcoholic, the end of denial is the first stage of recovery.
Finally, I really hope that both of you are not involved in the Management side of our Company, because if you are, we’re not going to get anywhere.
DS
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A Form Sheet as long as my arm!
Dunno if this will work, but I researched a thread from a couple of years ago. It discusses among other things Tim's management style, and how he and his 'team' (hysterical laughter) are really regarded.
Yog-SothothGuest posted 30th May 2001 18:35 Captain Tim - To Hell with Him. Captain Timbo has started as he means to go on. Less than a month into CitiExpress, he has unilaterally ignored/torn up the Pilot Policy Document, and the Seniority List.Our ex-BRAL colleagues should be aware they need to get their act together quickly. Tim has decided he can promote who he likes if it suits him; he has just initiated this policy on an F.O. promoting him to Captain to reward him for his obsequiousness, and to make the F.O.'s new management position more credible. I just hope someone, somewhere, sometime in our BALPA organisation is watching. He couldn't get away with this in BA; he couldn't have got away with it in Brymon before we amalgamated, and I don't see why or how he should be allowed to get away with it now.Does anyone agree??------------------Tekeli Li, Tekeli Li.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Judas PriestGuest posted 30th May 2001 19:28 Yog,I sympathise with you if this is true. It's happened in BRAL before. The FCM at Manchester, who has quite a little empire built up for himself, is the Chief Pilot's brother in law. Don't get me wrong, he's a good pilot and he deserved his command when it came up, but then he got a training position over very many more experienced and very much more capable Captains, and far to quickly after getting his command. He's not been taken seriously since. Especially since his "trouble".But worry ye not. Their days of plenty draw to a close...------------------Each bad day is one day closer to a good dayReport this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
BillabongGuest posted 31st May 2001 04:34 Mudflap has censored this original posting of mine. I shall rephrase accordingly.However, for future reference, Mudflap, you creep, bear these points in mind.Before you go editing my postings Mudflap old bean, I suggest :1. You fly with the guy yourself. I only comment on what I've seen. I've flown with him. Have you?2. Read the Company report on this incident. You will note it confirms there was nothing found wrong with the aeroplane.3. Speak to the F.O with him when he had his 'trouble'. I have. Have you?And before we go any further, come clean. If you're going to moderate this forum, then tell us what management position you hold yourself.Just treat this like any other chop ride.......[This message has been edited by Mudflap (edited 31 May 2001).][This message has been edited by Billabong (edited 31 May 2001).]Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Arty Fishul-RisonGuest posted 31st May 2001 07:31 Who is this new bloke then, and when are our own BALPA guys due to be elected? Surely ALL the BALPA reps should be able to do something about this. It'd never happen in Airtours, I can assure you of that!Less than a year and counting, yippee!!!!!------------------There's only two things smell like fish - and one of them's fish!!Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Al T MeterGuest posted 31st May 2001 08:20 Don't despair Yog-Sothoth this type of thing is not unusual in aviation, well at least not in the 35 years I have seen. Ability, experience and the keenness to progress within the company count for little. Of course there have been the odd exceptions such as 'our Nigel.' In BRAL we had a Bid form that we could note our interest in various position. Invariable when a vacancy did occur the person who got the job was not on the list.No, if you want to get on in this company you will probably need to be related to those with power, have a funny handshake or a large tongue. An interesting point, a large tongue is a feature of Down's syndrome, cretinism and acromegaly. Final point. Why are there so few women at the top of our management structure?Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
JackdawGuest posted 31st May 2001 08:38 For Billabong: Mudflap keeps himself as close to management as you can get without actually being there. His tongue is huge for licking a**e. He is probably a bit peeved at the moment that he failed to get either training job on offer. There is justice.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
MaxReheatGuest posted 31st May 2001 10:31 Thread has gone off topic in a way, but don't they all. So, not for the first time, Mudflap jumps in with both feet but just who is he? There was a request a few weeks ago for him to 'out' himself which he refused, a disappointing decision as his predecessor was known to us all. It would appear that some/many of you out there are pretty sure of his identity so are you prepared to tell the rest of us? Or, come on Mudflap, what have you got to lose?As far as the 'top of the thread' story is concerned, would Yog like to expand on the details of this apparent 'out of sequence' promotion? Please don't think BRAL is pure in this department; face, handshake, patronage, family, non-advertised/competeted appointments have been all too prominent keys to career success with us. It would be good to think that all that was going out the window in the new organisation - but apparently not.-----------------------Apres moi le deluge!Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Yog-SothothGuest posted 31st May 2001 13:58 Just back at work after a couple of days off - the world is a happy place again. It would seem one of our men with a legal background has grasped the nettle. Tim had a writ delivered to him, and the chump has backed off.It is great to see the BALPA organisation delivering; if this had gone through, then a very dangerous precedent would have been set. Tim has certainly got the authority to promote whoever he thinks fit into whatever Management jobs he wants - but he can't abrogate the Pilot Policy agreement and award Command status out of turn, not unless he wants to see legal and maybe industrial action taken.I only hope our BRAL colleagues take note of this, because it demonstrates very clearly what sort of man Tim really is. Don't be fooled by the laid back "I'm your mate, we're all on the same side" claptrap. His brief is to raise productivity and profits. That is the criteria he will be judged by. It is not likely to be synonymous with improving - or even maintaining our quality of life and remuneration.On this occasion, thankfully, I understand he has been stopped, albeit at the eleventh hour. Get the BRAL side of BALPA sorted out soon colleagues, you'll be next!------------------Tekeli Li, Tekeli Li.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
First Officer HorrendousGuest posted 31st May 2001 14:54 Glad to hear all has been resolved satisfactorily, and in this case I agree with the outcome - so far !I don't really see what place these highly personalised attacks on the moderator, or the Flight Crew Manager at Manchester have though, apart from dragging us all into the gutter.Give us a break chaps, and give Mudflap one too, it ain't an easy job.------------------Yours,HORRY.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
The Airy FairyGuest posted 31st May 2001 16:56 If our new Management was trying to pull a fast one by promoting one of their own, then thank goodness for BALPA. It's bad enough coping with our own Management (assuming they aren't all shortly looking for new jobs, lol,) without worrying that what passes for a Seniority List is going to be made a laughing stock. BALPA could just be the wake-up call this Company has needed. Thank you very much all you exBrymon guys, for showing us the way.As for getting personal, well, remember that this is an anonymous forum specifically so people can unload. It's foolish to imagine half of us would ever publicly say things we expound upon on the pprune - but in itself thats a good pressure relief valve. As for people getting hurt, well, its a bit like adult tv after 2100 isn't it. If you don't want to watch it or read it, then don't switch it on!!! As to specific incidents, I couldn't comment without seeing Billabong's original post..............but lets face it, there's nothing I've seen on here that hasn't been discussed a dozen times on half a hundred Flight Decks. We all know what happened, so does Carl (Tee Hee Hee). It's just life that if you acquiesce in being nepotised, (let alone actively seek that preferment) then you can expect to take some heat. Mudflap, you impute that Carl is not big enough to sort this out himself, don't be such a nanny!!!!!!PURELY personal attack is different, and should be banned.Cheers Muddy, have one for me next time you're drinking with your mates at the Whitestone.------------------Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
tcpGuest posted 31st May 2001 17:22 quote: <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Give us a break chaps, and give Mudflap one too, it ain't an easy job.</font> You will get less respect the longer you take to come out MF. Am I perhaps reading too much into that sentence or is F/O H also Mudflap? Tell us F/O H, do please tell us! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
buttonpusherGuest posted 31st May 2001 17:51 i would like to point out that to make the world a 'happier place' again involved a very nasty, vitriolic attack on the F/O concerned. Tim is a legitimate target but stooping to graffitti on the crew room wall is another thing altogether.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
MudflapGuest posted 1st June 2001 04:26 POST BY FLYCATCHER"a very nasty, vitriolic attack on the F/O concerned"dream on pal. promotion criteria are clearly published and the fact the writ stopped it shows who was right and who was wrong. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
So, you get the drift. Leopards and spots.
Yog-SothothGuest posted 30th May 2001 18:35 Captain Tim - To Hell with Him. Captain Timbo has started as he means to go on. Less than a month into CitiExpress, he has unilaterally ignored/torn up the Pilot Policy Document, and the Seniority List.Our ex-BRAL colleagues should be aware they need to get their act together quickly. Tim has decided he can promote who he likes if it suits him; he has just initiated this policy on an F.O. promoting him to Captain to reward him for his obsequiousness, and to make the F.O.'s new management position more credible. I just hope someone, somewhere, sometime in our BALPA organisation is watching. He couldn't get away with this in BA; he couldn't have got away with it in Brymon before we amalgamated, and I don't see why or how he should be allowed to get away with it now.Does anyone agree??------------------Tekeli Li, Tekeli Li.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Judas PriestGuest posted 30th May 2001 19:28 Yog,I sympathise with you if this is true. It's happened in BRAL before. The FCM at Manchester, who has quite a little empire built up for himself, is the Chief Pilot's brother in law. Don't get me wrong, he's a good pilot and he deserved his command when it came up, but then he got a training position over very many more experienced and very much more capable Captains, and far to quickly after getting his command. He's not been taken seriously since. Especially since his "trouble".But worry ye not. Their days of plenty draw to a close...------------------Each bad day is one day closer to a good dayReport this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
BillabongGuest posted 31st May 2001 04:34 Mudflap has censored this original posting of mine. I shall rephrase accordingly.However, for future reference, Mudflap, you creep, bear these points in mind.Before you go editing my postings Mudflap old bean, I suggest :1. You fly with the guy yourself. I only comment on what I've seen. I've flown with him. Have you?2. Read the Company report on this incident. You will note it confirms there was nothing found wrong with the aeroplane.3. Speak to the F.O with him when he had his 'trouble'. I have. Have you?And before we go any further, come clean. If you're going to moderate this forum, then tell us what management position you hold yourself.Just treat this like any other chop ride.......[This message has been edited by Mudflap (edited 31 May 2001).][This message has been edited by Billabong (edited 31 May 2001).]Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Arty Fishul-RisonGuest posted 31st May 2001 07:31 Who is this new bloke then, and when are our own BALPA guys due to be elected? Surely ALL the BALPA reps should be able to do something about this. It'd never happen in Airtours, I can assure you of that!Less than a year and counting, yippee!!!!!------------------There's only two things smell like fish - and one of them's fish!!Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Al T MeterGuest posted 31st May 2001 08:20 Don't despair Yog-Sothoth this type of thing is not unusual in aviation, well at least not in the 35 years I have seen. Ability, experience and the keenness to progress within the company count for little. Of course there have been the odd exceptions such as 'our Nigel.' In BRAL we had a Bid form that we could note our interest in various position. Invariable when a vacancy did occur the person who got the job was not on the list.No, if you want to get on in this company you will probably need to be related to those with power, have a funny handshake or a large tongue. An interesting point, a large tongue is a feature of Down's syndrome, cretinism and acromegaly. Final point. Why are there so few women at the top of our management structure?Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
JackdawGuest posted 31st May 2001 08:38 For Billabong: Mudflap keeps himself as close to management as you can get without actually being there. His tongue is huge for licking a**e. He is probably a bit peeved at the moment that he failed to get either training job on offer. There is justice.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
MaxReheatGuest posted 31st May 2001 10:31 Thread has gone off topic in a way, but don't they all. So, not for the first time, Mudflap jumps in with both feet but just who is he? There was a request a few weeks ago for him to 'out' himself which he refused, a disappointing decision as his predecessor was known to us all. It would appear that some/many of you out there are pretty sure of his identity so are you prepared to tell the rest of us? Or, come on Mudflap, what have you got to lose?As far as the 'top of the thread' story is concerned, would Yog like to expand on the details of this apparent 'out of sequence' promotion? Please don't think BRAL is pure in this department; face, handshake, patronage, family, non-advertised/competeted appointments have been all too prominent keys to career success with us. It would be good to think that all that was going out the window in the new organisation - but apparently not.-----------------------Apres moi le deluge!Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
Yog-SothothGuest posted 31st May 2001 13:58 Just back at work after a couple of days off - the world is a happy place again. It would seem one of our men with a legal background has grasped the nettle. Tim had a writ delivered to him, and the chump has backed off.It is great to see the BALPA organisation delivering; if this had gone through, then a very dangerous precedent would have been set. Tim has certainly got the authority to promote whoever he thinks fit into whatever Management jobs he wants - but he can't abrogate the Pilot Policy agreement and award Command status out of turn, not unless he wants to see legal and maybe industrial action taken.I only hope our BRAL colleagues take note of this, because it demonstrates very clearly what sort of man Tim really is. Don't be fooled by the laid back "I'm your mate, we're all on the same side" claptrap. His brief is to raise productivity and profits. That is the criteria he will be judged by. It is not likely to be synonymous with improving - or even maintaining our quality of life and remuneration.On this occasion, thankfully, I understand he has been stopped, albeit at the eleventh hour. Get the BRAL side of BALPA sorted out soon colleagues, you'll be next!------------------Tekeli Li, Tekeli Li.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
First Officer HorrendousGuest posted 31st May 2001 14:54 Glad to hear all has been resolved satisfactorily, and in this case I agree with the outcome - so far !I don't really see what place these highly personalised attacks on the moderator, or the Flight Crew Manager at Manchester have though, apart from dragging us all into the gutter.Give us a break chaps, and give Mudflap one too, it ain't an easy job.------------------Yours,HORRY.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
The Airy FairyGuest posted 31st May 2001 16:56 If our new Management was trying to pull a fast one by promoting one of their own, then thank goodness for BALPA. It's bad enough coping with our own Management (assuming they aren't all shortly looking for new jobs, lol,) without worrying that what passes for a Seniority List is going to be made a laughing stock. BALPA could just be the wake-up call this Company has needed. Thank you very much all you exBrymon guys, for showing us the way.As for getting personal, well, remember that this is an anonymous forum specifically so people can unload. It's foolish to imagine half of us would ever publicly say things we expound upon on the pprune - but in itself thats a good pressure relief valve. As for people getting hurt, well, its a bit like adult tv after 2100 isn't it. If you don't want to watch it or read it, then don't switch it on!!! As to specific incidents, I couldn't comment without seeing Billabong's original post..............but lets face it, there's nothing I've seen on here that hasn't been discussed a dozen times on half a hundred Flight Decks. We all know what happened, so does Carl (Tee Hee Hee). It's just life that if you acquiesce in being nepotised, (let alone actively seek that preferment) then you can expect to take some heat. Mudflap, you impute that Carl is not big enough to sort this out himself, don't be such a nanny!!!!!!PURELY personal attack is different, and should be banned.Cheers Muddy, have one for me next time you're drinking with your mates at the Whitestone.------------------Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
tcpGuest posted 31st May 2001 17:22 quote: <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Give us a break chaps, and give Mudflap one too, it ain't an easy job.</font> You will get less respect the longer you take to come out MF. Am I perhaps reading too much into that sentence or is F/O H also Mudflap? Tell us F/O H, do please tell us! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
buttonpusherGuest posted 31st May 2001 17:51 i would like to point out that to make the world a 'happier place' again involved a very nasty, vitriolic attack on the F/O concerned. Tim is a legitimate target but stooping to graffitti on the crew room wall is another thing altogether.Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
MudflapGuest posted 1st June 2001 04:26 POST BY FLYCATCHER"a very nasty, vitriolic attack on the F/O concerned"dream on pal. promotion criteria are clearly published and the fact the writ stopped it shows who was right and who was wrong. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Posts: N/A | From: | Registered: Not Yet | IP: Logged
So, you get the drift. Leopards and spots.
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Do I REALLY have to keep referring you guys back to my previous posts on this thread for you to 'get' the context of my remarks?
Try page 2 for example!!
Wow, wait 'til I tell my mother I have 500 cousins!!!
Try page 2 for example!!
Wow, wait 'til I tell my mother I have 500 cousins!!!
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The long summer of discontent is warming up nicely.
Countless pilots are already being asked to work days off during leave periods.
Sectors are being cancelled.
Morale is rock bottom.
Crewing has moved to BHX and is out of control.
Where will it all end?
Countless pilots are already being asked to work days off during leave periods.
Sectors are being cancelled.
Morale is rock bottom.
Crewing has moved to BHX and is out of control.
Where will it all end?
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Since you give no clues in your profile, and this is only your third post, could you give us a clue as to where exactly morale is 'rock bottom,'
"Countless pilots are being 'asked' to work days off during their leave" (I guess that's overtime?)
And where would you LIKE it to end?
"Countless pilots are being 'asked' to work days off during their leave" (I guess that's overtime?)
And where would you LIKE it to end?
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Condor,
With all due respect what a load of B------t so some pilots are being asked to work days off so what, I think they will be very pleased with the extra money in their pay packets. Its well documented that at the moment there are not enough pilots on the right fleets, this is being addressed you can't carry out a conversion course in five minutes.
Moral well it has been pretty low but tell me what airlines are not suffering moral problems at the moment. Forward bookings are actually looking very good and there is every reason to be a little bit more positive about the future.
Summer of discontent I don't think so, BALPA and the company are talking like adults again and there is a fair to good chance that some positive moves will come out of these talks.
Crewing has moved to BHX and is out of control, well have you bothered to visit BHX and speak to the people in the department you mention, its most certainly not out of control, teething problems no doubt but transferring a whole department in weekend and making it work straight away was a big task and in the main it has worked very well, yes there are issues to still be resolved but overall its starting to shape up.
Word of advice (if you do indeed work for the company) from somebody who has in all likelyhood been here a lot longer than you and seen all these ups and downs before. The company does not owe you a living, you will have to get used to the idea that a full weeks work isn't two days of flying and the rest on standby, stop talking the company down try talking it up and if you don't enjoy the fact that you come to work in a unique enviroment that many others would give their right arm for then give it all up and go and work in an office, you might find that suits you better.
Otherwise stop talking out of your bottom and start contributing something positive that will help turn this very viable company around.
And before you ask no I am not management and never likely to be so.
With all due respect what a load of B------t so some pilots are being asked to work days off so what, I think they will be very pleased with the extra money in their pay packets. Its well documented that at the moment there are not enough pilots on the right fleets, this is being addressed you can't carry out a conversion course in five minutes.
Moral well it has been pretty low but tell me what airlines are not suffering moral problems at the moment. Forward bookings are actually looking very good and there is every reason to be a little bit more positive about the future.
Summer of discontent I don't think so, BALPA and the company are talking like adults again and there is a fair to good chance that some positive moves will come out of these talks.
Crewing has moved to BHX and is out of control, well have you bothered to visit BHX and speak to the people in the department you mention, its most certainly not out of control, teething problems no doubt but transferring a whole department in weekend and making it work straight away was a big task and in the main it has worked very well, yes there are issues to still be resolved but overall its starting to shape up.
Word of advice (if you do indeed work for the company) from somebody who has in all likelyhood been here a lot longer than you and seen all these ups and downs before. The company does not owe you a living, you will have to get used to the idea that a full weeks work isn't two days of flying and the rest on standby, stop talking the company down try talking it up and if you don't enjoy the fact that you come to work in a unique enviroment that many others would give their right arm for then give it all up and go and work in an office, you might find that suits you better.
Otherwise stop talking out of your bottom and start contributing something positive that will help turn this very viable company around.
And before you ask no I am not management and never likely to be so.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: United Kingdom
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Hate to be pedantic, but what is all this crap about a "moral airline"? Is that like an ethical foreign policy???
Jeez,
MORALE!!!!!!!
LOSE, not LOOSE!!!!!
I always thought there was some sort of minimum education standard for pilots (managers I except from that statement!).
Jeez,
MORALE!!!!!!!
LOSE, not LOOSE!!!!!
I always thought there was some sort of minimum education standard for pilots (managers I except from that statement!).