LHR-MAN in 6 hours, courtesy of BA
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No De-Icer?
Lovely little Brum closed at about 8ish on Wednesday to reopen at 12 noon Thursday after "the sun has deiced the airfield cos we've no de-icer left!"
Nexialist
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Of course I accept that it can be other things than weather, but why the spurious accurracy? at one point around 1430 I spoke to the guy travelling, he'd never left the Exec club, so there was never a hope of a 1340 depature. My point I suppose is that once it has become obvious that your estimates are about as useful as a chocolate teapot, stop giving them out. People will be making decisions based upon them, such as "do I drive to the airport to pick up mr Bloggs now?" and are going to get hacked off when they get there and the plane hasn't even left.
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MissChief I am curious to know why it was you were on a BA flight?
Don't you work for a rival airline who also operate the same route?
Where were they? Had they cancelled ?
Gerupta Singh.
Don't you work for a rival airline who also operate the same route?
Where were they? Had they cancelled ?
Gerupta Singh.
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I work for GB, and on early Thu morning I reckon that BA (our handling agent) at LGW were very good indeed. The problem is BAA. They are responsible for clearing ice from stands (in this case stand 143). On arrival at the stand about 45 mins before departure, the aircraft had been de-iced, steps were at the front door with de-ice granules on each rung, refuelling was in progress and the first baggage trolleys pulling up onto the remote stand. Despite requests one hour before STD, from the dispatcher, for the ice rink below the area of the steps to be treated so that passengers could safely walk a few yards from bus to bottom of steps, nothing happened in time for STD. In the end a BA aircraft deicing rig was used to spray the tarmac around the steps. I would say that BAA, who have been making serious money out of their captive airline clients, need to provide a proper service, or reduce their charges.
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
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We understood that Birmingham hadn't run out of deicing fluid they simply had "the wrong type".
Sounds very Railtrack-esque to me
Happily too the place thawed just in time for a plane full of City Council dignitaries to land. Very nice timing indeed
Sounds very Railtrack-esque to me
Happily too the place thawed just in time for a plane full of City Council dignitaries to land. Very nice timing indeed
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Mischief.. ''never again BA'' GOOD! We dont want you.
So, Mischief.....
I now gather that you work for a competitor airline. If that is true, and you were using a staff travel ticket, then your VITREOLIC post against BA, and its pilots, is a disgrace. It is very easy to find names of staff travellers on flights. I am contacting Manager Staff Travel, to let him see your post. I hope that your staff travel on BA will be reviewed, and, of course, your own company advised of the situation. Staff travel is a perk and should not be abused.
Happy travelling.
So, Mischief.....
I now gather that you work for a competitor airline. If that is true, and you were using a staff travel ticket, then your VITREOLIC post against BA, and its pilots, is a disgrace. It is very easy to find names of staff travellers on flights. I am contacting Manager Staff Travel, to let him see your post. I hope that your staff travel on BA will be reviewed, and, of course, your own company advised of the situation. Staff travel is a perk and should not be abused.
Happy travelling.
Last edited by openfly; 1st Feb 2004 at 16:26.
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openfly
You have absolutely no evidence that Miss Chief was flying on a staff ticket.
But you seem happy enough to condem anyone who happened to be travelling on a staff ticket that day anyway as having made the post.
Lets hope that any individuals and companies who are penalised by you passing on Miss Chief's post understand your reasoning and logic. Maybe they'll even shout you a drink .... or something
You have absolutely no evidence that Miss Chief was flying on a staff ticket.
But you seem happy enough to condem anyone who happened to be travelling on a staff ticket that day anyway as having made the post.
Lets hope that any individuals and companies who are penalised by you passing on Miss Chief's post understand your reasoning and logic. Maybe they'll even shout you a drink .... or something
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fiftyfour
Your handling agent (BA) can also be very bad indeed. On a recent GB flight into LGW on a quiet winter's Saturday afternoon the captain boasted about arriving 20 mins early on schedule. Little did he know afterwards we waited 1hr 30mins for the baggage.
Everyone working the ramp wants it to be safe so instead of handling agents continually whingeing about ice on aprons why don't they help out. BAA and other airport operator staff need as much help as possible in dealing with the unusual weather situations experienced Weds/Thurs. It was a "white out" in the space of a few minutes when temps were above freezing then it dropped below making it very difficult to deal with.
If BAA didn't make serious money then who would pay for the extra LGW North Terminal pier, LHR Terminal 5, upgrading infrastructure for the big Airbus A380 and now a second runway at STN, collectively costing billions of pounds.
Your handling agent (BA) can also be very bad indeed. On a recent GB flight into LGW on a quiet winter's Saturday afternoon the captain boasted about arriving 20 mins early on schedule. Little did he know afterwards we waited 1hr 30mins for the baggage.
Everyone working the ramp wants it to be safe so instead of handling agents continually whingeing about ice on aprons why don't they help out. BAA and other airport operator staff need as much help as possible in dealing with the unusual weather situations experienced Weds/Thurs. It was a "white out" in the space of a few minutes when temps were above freezing then it dropped below making it very difficult to deal with.
If BAA didn't make serious money then who would pay for the extra LGW North Terminal pier, LHR Terminal 5, upgrading infrastructure for the big Airbus A380 and now a second runway at STN, collectively costing billions of pounds.
Thread Starter
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Amendment
First, error on my part..travel was on Thursday, not Tuesday, so weather situation now explicable. Experienced a 5-hr delay with BA (CitiExpress) on Weds, having paid 190 pounds personal money to fly SOU-MAN. Fair enough...destination airport closed, then insufficient de-icing rigs at MAN caused further delay ..as eventually explained by airline concerned...with apologies...important that.
MAN-LHR flight (0930L dep) cost me 182 pounds, again own money, and travel due to urgent and pretty terrible family circumstances, which I would not choose to detail on this site, or any other for that matter.
Departed MAN around 10, with delays anticipated and announced by FO rather confidently.."not a problem", and then dived into LTN having been advised STN by the Captain..no amendment till on ground, but I know they will have been busy just then.
There is no doubt this could have been avoided by a professional level of anticipation and planning, given the weather and ground-handling problems that day. There is no need for VITRIOLIC snipes (spell check, please), or the useless flames advising "Grow up" or the like. No staff travel involved, as stated, and likewise no employment by a competitor, although past experience with a competitor using same type on same route, many times, has given me an insight into ops into LHR.
Disappointing to see such unnecessary rage displayed...hope the contributors concerned either cool off or seek professional help. I kept cool on the day, despite missing a connection, which cost me yet more money, with no assistance from BA...and keeping cool is a key part of our work, no? Probably confused the day as I arrived at final destination over 14 hrs late...but still cross with BA. And I reckon this is permissible.
MAN-LHR flight (0930L dep) cost me 182 pounds, again own money, and travel due to urgent and pretty terrible family circumstances, which I would not choose to detail on this site, or any other for that matter.
Departed MAN around 10, with delays anticipated and announced by FO rather confidently.."not a problem", and then dived into LTN having been advised STN by the Captain..no amendment till on ground, but I know they will have been busy just then.
There is no doubt this could have been avoided by a professional level of anticipation and planning, given the weather and ground-handling problems that day. There is no need for VITRIOLIC snipes (spell check, please), or the useless flames advising "Grow up" or the like. No staff travel involved, as stated, and likewise no employment by a competitor, although past experience with a competitor using same type on same route, many times, has given me an insight into ops into LHR.
Disappointing to see such unnecessary rage displayed...hope the contributors concerned either cool off or seek professional help. I kept cool on the day, despite missing a connection, which cost me yet more money, with no assistance from BA...and keeping cool is a key part of our work, no? Probably confused the day as I arrived at final destination over 14 hrs late...but still cross with BA. And I reckon this is permissible.
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Miss, I'm going to regret rising to your bait but....
Hapless 2? Unprepared? Get a life. In your profile it states how professional you are. Comments like the above just go to show how thoroughly unpfofessional you are. Were you privvy to the information the gang had before departure? Were you privvy to all information during the flight down? No? Well shut the proverbial up then.
Yes, the day wasn't the greatest, but to have 40 minutes holding and then divert shows that the crew had uplifted extra fuel to account for anticipated delays. If you understood anything about fuel policy you would've realised that they didn't commit to LHR at any point and were probably wise to divert when they did. My guess is about an extra 1800Kg's of fuel (~45 mins holding), combined with whatever departure delays there may have been due to the wx. My guess is the crew involved probably uplifted an extra 2 tonnes to cover. Around about what I would've done, in fact possibly slightly more. What would you have done? A blanket extra 5 tonnes I suppose.
With an attitude like yours is it any wonder you're unemployed? I wouldn't like to come across you sat the other side of the desk should you ever apply. Although I suspect with your holier than thou persona you wouldn't even think of applying. Would you?
Methinks you shouldn't have given up the day job....
Hapless 2? Unprepared? Get a life. In your profile it states how professional you are. Comments like the above just go to show how thoroughly unpfofessional you are. Were you privvy to the information the gang had before departure? Were you privvy to all information during the flight down? No? Well shut the proverbial up then.
Yes, the day wasn't the greatest, but to have 40 minutes holding and then divert shows that the crew had uplifted extra fuel to account for anticipated delays. If you understood anything about fuel policy you would've realised that they didn't commit to LHR at any point and were probably wise to divert when they did. My guess is about an extra 1800Kg's of fuel (~45 mins holding), combined with whatever departure delays there may have been due to the wx. My guess is the crew involved probably uplifted an extra 2 tonnes to cover. Around about what I would've done, in fact possibly slightly more. What would you have done? A blanket extra 5 tonnes I suppose.
With an attitude like yours is it any wonder you're unemployed? I wouldn't like to come across you sat the other side of the desk should you ever apply. Although I suspect with your holier than thou persona you wouldn't even think of applying. Would you?
Methinks you shouldn't have given up the day job....
Ohcirrej
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Perhaps if you read Alfie's post AND understand it, you might just realise why people are telling you to grow up.
Really......questioning the professional skills of fellow pilots. Of course people are going to get their backs up. And have you considered that EGLL was single runway for quite a while for de-icing (equals delays), that increased spacing on final approach was required cause the jets were finding it hard to get off the runway (equals more delays) and one of the runways had an unforseen closure due to a foreign object being blown onto it. (equals even more delays). Not the fault of ANY driver up there.
Wish I was paid as well as these folks (and the pension/job security) to exercise such an appalling level of professional skills
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aaargh delays
MAN - luxury !! how about this horror story : HP350 Reno/Phoenix last friday (America West), inbound flt diverted to San Jose due X-winds - probably because no extra fuel taken, everyone else managed to hang around and land, then the inbound crew when they finally got there (2 hrs late by then) declared a further delay to 1400 because of 'weather', so it is time for lunch for the crew, whilst every other operator managed to arrive and depart on time... check in staff meanwhile are blaming HP's hapless A320's saying everyone elese's planes are Boeing's which have better capabilities in the wind (!) despite the fact that UA and NW both put A320's thru there during this time, passengers by now almost rioting (well you would too if everyone else's planes were flying, especially WN's every 10 mins or so), conclusion plane broken, waiting for part, except that in the small print HP state that if the delay is due to weather then they don't have to fork out meals and hotels for disrupted pax..... so what do you expect the staff to say... Net result we all miss at least the next two connections out of Phoenix and get home around 2am instead of 1800 and HP lose 140+ pax worth of goodwill cos guess what guys, pax ain't stupid !! So I know safety comes first but lets get real here. Hello Southwest, Hello NorthWest, goodbye HP !!
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Misscheif,
You say this could "no doubt be avoided by a professional level of aniticipation...." PLEASE explain what information you have to suggest this is not the case. In the absence of such evidence I will have to assume you are just moaning about the fact you had to divert. Sometimes such things are unavoidable despite the very best planning. Most airlines have a fuel policy which would not normally allow such lengthy holding as you experienced. The fact that you held and then diverted suggests sensible precautions were made.
Please either provide the clear explanation for your sweeping accusations of incompetence or understand that most people here will have to assume that you are simply an unhappy customer with with little understanding of reality and an unwillingness to learn.
You say this could "no doubt be avoided by a professional level of aniticipation...." PLEASE explain what information you have to suggest this is not the case. In the absence of such evidence I will have to assume you are just moaning about the fact you had to divert. Sometimes such things are unavoidable despite the very best planning. Most airlines have a fuel policy which would not normally allow such lengthy holding as you experienced. The fact that you held and then diverted suggests sensible precautions were made.
Please either provide the clear explanation for your sweeping accusations of incompetence or understand that most people here will have to assume that you are simply an unhappy customer with with little understanding of reality and an unwillingness to learn.
