Peruvian fighter downs missionaries
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I can't be sure, we might have discussed it on here before, but I feel there is an argument to decriminalize controlled drugs as touched upon by Rastaman.
Take away the hugh profits, the glamour, et cetera, what are you left with? Everyone has their poision/addiction; be it alcohol, tobacco, driving fast cars, shagging long legged women, wasting time on the internet, flying aircraft, or what have you. If drugs were available legitmately (here in the UK the NHS buy uncut, i.e. approximately 96% pure, coke at about £4 a gramme) what could the drug barons do? In fact, this was an argument but forward by a now retired contoversial member of the judiciary here in the UK, Judge Pickles. I can't think of one senior police officer in the UK prepared to stand up against the establishment, certainly no one in the Metropolitan Police, but ask such persons privately, and I'm sure they'd welcome the controlled legalization of such contraband.
Clearly the Home Office of the last British Government didn't see drugs as a problem, they disbanded New Scotland Yards Central Drug Squad (of which I was a member) despite evidence to suggest that 90% of drugs within the UK at some stage pass through the Metroplitan area.
Legalize and I suspect demand and certainly crime, will fall. Furthermore, it will allow police forces worldwide to get on with dealing with other aspects of crime.
Take away the hugh profits, the glamour, et cetera, what are you left with? Everyone has their poision/addiction; be it alcohol, tobacco, driving fast cars, shagging long legged women, wasting time on the internet, flying aircraft, or what have you. If drugs were available legitmately (here in the UK the NHS buy uncut, i.e. approximately 96% pure, coke at about £4 a gramme) what could the drug barons do? In fact, this was an argument but forward by a now retired contoversial member of the judiciary here in the UK, Judge Pickles. I can't think of one senior police officer in the UK prepared to stand up against the establishment, certainly no one in the Metropolitan Police, but ask such persons privately, and I'm sure they'd welcome the controlled legalization of such contraband.
Clearly the Home Office of the last British Government didn't see drugs as a problem, they disbanded New Scotland Yards Central Drug Squad (of which I was a member) despite evidence to suggest that 90% of drugs within the UK at some stage pass through the Metroplitan area.
Legalize and I suspect demand and certainly crime, will fall. Furthermore, it will allow police forces worldwide to get on with dealing with other aspects of crime.
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No, I am not saying that all military or police actions should be plannned to accept collateral damage now should we overlook the fact that collateral damage was done. Yes I know the fact is a wrong aircraft was shot down, not a wrongfull interception mind you. Somebody prior said "apparently a flight plan was filed" well maybe not. Of course not flying a flight plan should not ne a capitol offense either but down there it does make a aircraft highly suspect since drug smugglars seldome file flight plans. As I mentioned earlier of the intercept procedures that were in effect 2 years ago, do we know if the military and "other" aircraft carried these out per operating procedure and do we know if the suspect aircraft ingnored the warnings? Know we don't. If the suspect aircraft did not file a correct flight plan(which you do need to stay legal there)or did blatently ignore the intercepting aircraft then the pilot of the C185 is the one at fault. I am not saying I agree with the system there. I still think the drug problem starts here and could stop here.(at home) BUT it is what we do now, these these drug interdiction flights. Yes there is lots of interdiction flights within our borders. So until we know ALL of the facts we need to stop pointing fingers like some of us are doing here until we do. And I do like the movies also. "Traffic" was very accurate except nobody tastes the stuff to test quality. Well I supose some did but they are no longer with us.
I never once said we should get the b*stards whatever means possible either
Yes, thank goodness I am a ex cop and also ex military, the only thing you said that I agree with. Thank goodness I am not some flaming liberal who will roll over and let these low-lifes live just because they are "over there". It is people like that who stand between you at your dinner parties pretending you know things you know not a thing about and the horrible truth called reality. I get this feeling you do not like law enforcement, or the military well too bad and it must suck to be you. And not all life is like a cinema, nobody I know flys around with a cigar stuck between thier(his or her) teeth. AND NOBODY USED A MACHINE GUN. Another example of your poorly done research. You are probably the ones who show a handgun in the back ground when a reporter is talking about a hit and run driver in Michigan. (sorry Michigan, I will use another city next time)
Yes the fact is a civilian aircraft was shot down and 2 innocent people were killed. I am all for a complete investigation and a re thinking of the drug program. But you need to keep the mudslinging to yourself or at least don't use made up "facts".
And DD, drug dealers are subhuman peices of sh!t.
Interesting observation Duncanmac, Confectioners sugar is also used to cut the dope I think.
The facts first ladies and gentlemen.
[This message has been edited by before landing check list (edited 25 April 2001).]
I never once said we should get the b*stards whatever means possible either
Yes, thank goodness I am a ex cop and also ex military, the only thing you said that I agree with. Thank goodness I am not some flaming liberal who will roll over and let these low-lifes live just because they are "over there". It is people like that who stand between you at your dinner parties pretending you know things you know not a thing about and the horrible truth called reality. I get this feeling you do not like law enforcement, or the military well too bad and it must suck to be you. And not all life is like a cinema, nobody I know flys around with a cigar stuck between thier(his or her) teeth. AND NOBODY USED A MACHINE GUN. Another example of your poorly done research. You are probably the ones who show a handgun in the back ground when a reporter is talking about a hit and run driver in Michigan. (sorry Michigan, I will use another city next time)
Yes the fact is a civilian aircraft was shot down and 2 innocent people were killed. I am all for a complete investigation and a re thinking of the drug program. But you need to keep the mudslinging to yourself or at least don't use made up "facts".
And DD, drug dealers are subhuman peices of sh!t.
Interesting observation Duncanmac, Confectioners sugar is also used to cut the dope I think.
The facts first ladies and gentlemen.
[This message has been edited by before landing check list (edited 25 April 2001).]
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before landing check list - confectioners sugar sure is used to cut coke, as are many, many other things. I just happened to mention Mannite as it is a particulary effective adulterating agent with which to cut cocaine. Not only does it have the flaky appearance and aniseptic taste of cocaine but as near as dammit dissolves at within a few degrees of coke's melting point - 112 degrees Fahrenheit. What's more, it is invisible the instant it is dropped into water. Given that the most common test taken investigates those very two properties, Mannite proves to be, in my opinion, the best agent with which to cut the gear. It is quite simply undetectable.
S**t, some people would pay for this information. I must get it into a script.
S**t, some people would pay for this information. I must get it into a script.
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LEGALIZING DRUGS -
On the surface, legalizing drugs strikes most as a solution. As an airline captain, why would I be prohibited from 'using' on my day off??
That's discrimination! (I hope so.)
Imagine your doctor, a politician or your wife as a 'user.'
It's just not that simple. It is profitable.
Okay, drugs are now legal, "Hello Holland, where do you go to get the inventory?"
Don't ask; don't tell - that was Clinton's way.
Trust your feelings; there's something wrong in that 'legalization' picture.
Now, the law gets changed.
"Excuse me, Dr. Smith, it seems that on your background and security check, you appear to be a previous registered heroin user. Perhaps the street sanitation department is looking for someone."
On the surface, legalizing drugs strikes most as a solution. As an airline captain, why would I be prohibited from 'using' on my day off??
That's discrimination! (I hope so.)
Imagine your doctor, a politician or your wife as a 'user.'
It's just not that simple. It is profitable.
Okay, drugs are now legal, "Hello Holland, where do you go to get the inventory?"
Don't ask; don't tell - that was Clinton's way.
Trust your feelings; there's something wrong in that 'legalization' picture.
Now, the law gets changed.
"Excuse me, Dr. Smith, it seems that on your background and security check, you appear to be a previous registered heroin user. Perhaps the street sanitation department is looking for someone."
Cunning Artificer
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BLCL,
I am ex-military, 14 years boy and man. I've been on anti-insurgency patrols up to my neck in leeches and Tiger cans with the best of them. (My signature has nothing to do with the movies. It advertises a particular military background to those on PPRuNe who share it)
So far the Royal Air Force has managed not to shoot down any civilian light aircraft flying in British airspace. (They've collided with a few mind, but not deliberately)
The British Army, Royal Air Force and Police Force use aircraft for law enforcement but have so far restricted their use to aiding ground based operations. Outside the province of Northern Ireland our police rarely carry guns. Those few who do carry guns have managed to shoot a number of innocent people, which must thus count as a good reason for restrictions on the use of lethal force.
Now I'm no liberal wimp, but all in all I really hope that things stay that way. And I don't believe that there is any reason why the rest of the world cannot be as peaceful as most of the UK usually is.
To get back on thread, once a military aircraft has acquired a civilian aircraft as a target, that target cannot escape. It has to land somewhere sometime and that is when the occupants maybe dealt with.
I reiterate - there is no excuse whatsoever for a military aircraft to shoot down a civilian aircraft. None. Ever.
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Through difficulties to the cinema
I am ex-military, 14 years boy and man. I've been on anti-insurgency patrols up to my neck in leeches and Tiger cans with the best of them. (My signature has nothing to do with the movies. It advertises a particular military background to those on PPRuNe who share it)
So far the Royal Air Force has managed not to shoot down any civilian light aircraft flying in British airspace. (They've collided with a few mind, but not deliberately)
The British Army, Royal Air Force and Police Force use aircraft for law enforcement but have so far restricted their use to aiding ground based operations. Outside the province of Northern Ireland our police rarely carry guns. Those few who do carry guns have managed to shoot a number of innocent people, which must thus count as a good reason for restrictions on the use of lethal force.
Now I'm no liberal wimp, but all in all I really hope that things stay that way. And I don't believe that there is any reason why the rest of the world cannot be as peaceful as most of the UK usually is.
To get back on thread, once a military aircraft has acquired a civilian aircraft as a target, that target cannot escape. It has to land somewhere sometime and that is when the occupants maybe dealt with.
I reiterate - there is no excuse whatsoever for a military aircraft to shoot down a civilian aircraft. None. Ever.
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
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Don't think those inocent people died because your law enforement was armed I know you heard that before but guns did not kill them. Good training is the best insurance, not removing the tools.
I never said I agreed with the shoot down policy but I think it was imposed as a detterent. I don't know the stategic value or the success it had(has) but that is all I can say here. j
------------------
Here's to cheating, stealing, fighting, and drinking.
If you cheat, may you cheat death.
If you steal, may you steal a woman's heart.
If you fight, may you fight for a brother.
And if you drink, may you drink with me.
I never said I agreed with the shoot down policy but I think it was imposed as a detterent. I don't know the stategic value or the success it had(has) but that is all I can say here. j
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Here's to cheating, stealing, fighting, and drinking.
If you cheat, may you cheat death.
If you steal, may you steal a woman's heart.
If you fight, may you fight for a brother.
And if you drink, may you drink with me.
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This thread has moved into the abstract area of "should drugs be legalised or not etc".
That's alright I suppose but I'm still choked up about what actually happened: a civilian aircraft being shot down by a military one in times of peace; two people killed, one wounded and three scarred for the rest of their lives. A very lucky - or skilful - landing on water, with the aircraft overturning and all the survivors clinging to the floats until rescued by a dugout.
In my mind there's no shadow of a doubt the flight plan was filed; tower staff at Iquitos confirmed this to a Peruvian newspaper early on. Nor is there any doubt as to the situational awareness of the Cessna pilot, Kevin Donaldson - mission pilots are very aware there are "eyes in the sky" and light fighters about looking for suspect aircraft.
What astounds me, what I gag at understanding, is aa) how a someone like that A-37 pilot can get through an airforce selection system without being weeded out as a hothead and bb) how a US aircraft crew can be allowed into the air without an elementary knowlege of colloquial Spanish in which to communicate with the pilots they are tasked to direct to potential targets.
Easy to say, "two sloppy systems". I guess so. I lived in Peru (including Iquitos) and amongst the friends I most respected were FAP people. Others were missionaries, some of them pilots.
If there was any common bond between the pilots on either side, it was ethical, a respect for the elements, the jungle, the machinery, and for each other. That is, I think, what most drew us together and that, I suppose, is what makes this business so galling.
A few posters have suggested the A-37 pilot will go unpunished. I doubt that very much. I'm reasonably sure the guy will be branded for the rest of his life. And it could well be the trigger for a soul-searching review of screening procedures in the Peruvian Air Force.
As for CIA or whatever the Citation was and whoever employed it, for God's sake wouldn't it be worthwhile employing people who could communicate? Just imagine the rest-of-their-lives misery of the guys in the Citation, at their own tongue-tied inability to say "hold on a minute".
And Blacksheep, you're spot on with SNAFU.
broadreach
That's alright I suppose but I'm still choked up about what actually happened: a civilian aircraft being shot down by a military one in times of peace; two people killed, one wounded and three scarred for the rest of their lives. A very lucky - or skilful - landing on water, with the aircraft overturning and all the survivors clinging to the floats until rescued by a dugout.
In my mind there's no shadow of a doubt the flight plan was filed; tower staff at Iquitos confirmed this to a Peruvian newspaper early on. Nor is there any doubt as to the situational awareness of the Cessna pilot, Kevin Donaldson - mission pilots are very aware there are "eyes in the sky" and light fighters about looking for suspect aircraft.
What astounds me, what I gag at understanding, is aa) how a someone like that A-37 pilot can get through an airforce selection system without being weeded out as a hothead and bb) how a US aircraft crew can be allowed into the air without an elementary knowlege of colloquial Spanish in which to communicate with the pilots they are tasked to direct to potential targets.
Easy to say, "two sloppy systems". I guess so. I lived in Peru (including Iquitos) and amongst the friends I most respected were FAP people. Others were missionaries, some of them pilots.
If there was any common bond between the pilots on either side, it was ethical, a respect for the elements, the jungle, the machinery, and for each other. That is, I think, what most drew us together and that, I suppose, is what makes this business so galling.
A few posters have suggested the A-37 pilot will go unpunished. I doubt that very much. I'm reasonably sure the guy will be branded for the rest of his life. And it could well be the trigger for a soul-searching review of screening procedures in the Peruvian Air Force.
As for CIA or whatever the Citation was and whoever employed it, for God's sake wouldn't it be worthwhile employing people who could communicate? Just imagine the rest-of-their-lives misery of the guys in the Citation, at their own tongue-tied inability to say "hold on a minute".
And Blacksheep, you're spot on with SNAFU.
broadreach
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The photo on CNN shows a remarkably intact and un-bent C185 floatplane being lifted out of the river. It looks like it sank after a landing. It was said there were 12 bullet holes in the floats.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/26/per....ap/index.html
I don't think the Peruvian pilot can be accused being some 'hot shot' who 'blasted it out of the sky". More like forced it down.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/26/per....ap/index.html
I don't think the Peruvian pilot can be accused being some 'hot shot' who 'blasted it out of the sky". More like forced it down.
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GETTING CURIOUS -
The USA news accounts seem to do a credible job of portraying the Peruvian control officer as being hell-bent to shoot down the plane, despite all facts and objections.
Anything is possible, but it strikes me that there could have been a plan afoot to sabotage the interdiction flights. That's not beyond the realm of possibility in the particular region.
IMHO, the test is in the Peruvian government's reaction. If they protect the officer and pilot, I'd say that is the most likely case.
The U.S. borders need the attention. Why worry about incoming ICBMs when a drug flight can be turned into a cruise missile.
With a Chinese company operating the Panama Canal, I'd be curious as to how possible that might be.
The USA news accounts seem to do a credible job of portraying the Peruvian control officer as being hell-bent to shoot down the plane, despite all facts and objections.
Anything is possible, but it strikes me that there could have been a plan afoot to sabotage the interdiction flights. That's not beyond the realm of possibility in the particular region.
IMHO, the test is in the Peruvian government's reaction. If they protect the officer and pilot, I'd say that is the most likely case.
The U.S. borders need the attention. Why worry about incoming ICBMs when a drug flight can be turned into a cruise missile.
With a Chinese company operating the Panama Canal, I'd be curious as to how possible that might be.
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Thomas Doubting,
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"I don't think the Peruvian pilot can be accused being some 'hot shot' who 'blasted it out of the sky'. More like forced it down"
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I don't see how you can say this. Wether or hot he was a hotshot, he shot the plane down, he did not force it. He fired at it, while it was flying, he killed 2 people, injured the pilot and caused it to come down. If the bullets had struck the aircraft slighty higher, and hit the pilots chest, the pilot would have been killed and the plane would have crashed. The fact the injured pilot was able to put it down in one piece, does not remove the fact it was shot down. They lost the chance to use the words 'forced down' when 2 people were killed. It was pure chance that it was able to roughly land in one piece.
ickle
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"I don't think the Peruvian pilot can be accused being some 'hot shot' who 'blasted it out of the sky'. More like forced it down"
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I don't see how you can say this. Wether or hot he was a hotshot, he shot the plane down, he did not force it. He fired at it, while it was flying, he killed 2 people, injured the pilot and caused it to come down. If the bullets had struck the aircraft slighty higher, and hit the pilots chest, the pilot would have been killed and the plane would have crashed. The fact the injured pilot was able to put it down in one piece, does not remove the fact it was shot down. They lost the chance to use the words 'forced down' when 2 people were killed. It was pure chance that it was able to roughly land in one piece.
ickle
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PARTIAL ANSWER FROM REUTERS -
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Lima and Washington, key allies in the drugs war, began patrolling the skies a decade ago under the regime of disgraced ex-President Alberto Fujimori and his spy chief Vladimiro Montesinos -- a man alleged to have been a one-time CIA contact and to have taken cash from drug lords to turn a blind eye to their clandestine jungle airstrips. (Additional reporting by Marco Aquino, Jonathan Wright in Washington)
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Lima and Washington, key allies in the drugs war, began patrolling the skies a decade ago under the regime of disgraced ex-President Alberto Fujimori and his spy chief Vladimiro Montesinos -- a man alleged to have been a one-time CIA contact and to have taken cash from drug lords to turn a blind eye to their clandestine jungle airstrips. (Additional reporting by Marco Aquino, Jonathan Wright in Washington)
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ickle black box
The point of my post was that after reading the press reports of the aircraft being sensationally blasted out of the sky or 'shot down' plus the above contributions, I was very surprised to see that the aircraft was intact with no obvious structural deformation that could be seen in the CNN photograph. The flaps were set, the floats still attached and the prop blades and wings show no sign of uncontrolled contact with the surface of the earth. In other words, the aircraft landed on the river then sank.
Correct me if I am wrong, but 'shot down' would imply that the aircraft departed from controlled flight before reaching the ground. That clearly wasn't the case here. The pilot, Kevin Donaldson, was said to be wounded in both legs and he obviously did a great job in putting it down in one piece. To say that the aircraft was shot down does not give him credit for getting the survivors and the aircraft safely back to earth
I am not trying to trivialise the loss of two lives, but I don't think it should be sensationalised either.
The point of my post was that after reading the press reports of the aircraft being sensationally blasted out of the sky or 'shot down' plus the above contributions, I was very surprised to see that the aircraft was intact with no obvious structural deformation that could be seen in the CNN photograph. The flaps were set, the floats still attached and the prop blades and wings show no sign of uncontrolled contact with the surface of the earth. In other words, the aircraft landed on the river then sank.
Correct me if I am wrong, but 'shot down' would imply that the aircraft departed from controlled flight before reaching the ground. That clearly wasn't the case here. The pilot, Kevin Donaldson, was said to be wounded in both legs and he obviously did a great job in putting it down in one piece. To say that the aircraft was shot down does not give him credit for getting the survivors and the aircraft safely back to earth
I am not trying to trivialise the loss of two lives, but I don't think it should be sensationalised either.
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TD -
I don't know the name of the company operating the canal. There was a brief mention of it when Clinton's guy went down for the festivities. Clinton, naturally, played it down. It's tough to get info from that part of the world.
There were massive layoffs as a result, with a huge lawsuit for unannounced terminations, claiming severance pay. I think that's just now getting into the courts.
I don't know the name of the company operating the canal. There was a brief mention of it when Clinton's guy went down for the festivities. Clinton, naturally, played it down. It's tough to get info from that part of the world.
There were massive layoffs as a result, with a huge lawsuit for unannounced terminations, claiming severance pay. I think that's just now getting into the courts.
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Skydrifter,
The Panama Canal per se is now under the control of the Panamanian government, to whom it passed on (I believe) 2 January 2000.
The Hong Kong based conglomerate Hutchison Whampoa won concessions to operate container terminals at Cristobal and Balboa, at either end of the canal. Hutchison are the largest of the global container terminal operators; the Western Hemisphere operations are all run by Brits from Felixstowe in the UK. At the Atlantic end of the Canal two other companies, Seattle-based Stevedoring Services of America and Taiwan-based Evergreen, also operate container terminals, so Hutchison are not in a monopoly situation. The Panama Canal Railway concession was granted to a consortium of American companies, Kansas City Southern and Mi-Jack, I believe.
As for rockets being launched from Panama, well, I do think that's a bit far-fetched.
The Panama Canal per se is now under the control of the Panamanian government, to whom it passed on (I believe) 2 January 2000.
The Hong Kong based conglomerate Hutchison Whampoa won concessions to operate container terminals at Cristobal and Balboa, at either end of the canal. Hutchison are the largest of the global container terminal operators; the Western Hemisphere operations are all run by Brits from Felixstowe in the UK. At the Atlantic end of the Canal two other companies, Seattle-based Stevedoring Services of America and Taiwan-based Evergreen, also operate container terminals, so Hutchison are not in a monopoly situation. The Panama Canal Railway concession was granted to a consortium of American companies, Kansas City Southern and Mi-Jack, I believe.
As for rockets being launched from Panama, well, I do think that's a bit far-fetched.
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BROADREACH -
Still a bit strange, but thanks for the info.
It appears that Panama has a similar situation with Vancouver B.C. in the form of illegal immigrants.
Seattle is bracing for an underground railway from Vancouver, funneling illegals into the country.
This is badly off-topic, however.
Still a bit strange, but thanks for the info.
It appears that Panama has a similar situation with Vancouver B.C. in the form of illegal immigrants.
Seattle is bracing for an underground railway from Vancouver, funneling illegals into the country.
This is badly off-topic, however.
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Broadreach
Thanks for the additional info. In fact Hutch has a large contingent of ex-pat managers, particularly in operations overseas from HK.
There was a lot of media/political hyp in the US when they set up the Panama operations. Unfortunately the media hyp overshadows the truth, as it seems to be doing in this thread.
Thanks for the additional info. In fact Hutch has a large contingent of ex-pat managers, particularly in operations overseas from HK.
There was a lot of media/political hyp in the US when they set up the Panama operations. Unfortunately the media hyp overshadows the truth, as it seems to be doing in this thread.
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Civilian Pilots Shun Skies of Peru's Amazon amid Drug War
LIMA, Peru (AP) -- Erik Avila was flying his single-engine Cessna with five passengers over the Amazon jungle when a Peruvian air force jet swooped alongside and hailed him by radio, demanding he identify himself.
When his microphone failed, he made frantic hand signals to the fighter pilot and held up the broken handset to show he could not answer. He feared that under a U.S.-Peruvian program to force down suspected drug flights, his air-taxi could be shot from the sky.
"It has become a no man's land, where only the armed forces knows what is going on," said Avila, a private Peruvian jungle pilot with 14 years experience who flies out of the Amazon capital of Iquitos, 625 miles northeast of Lima.
After the deadly downing of a U.S. missionary plane by a Peruvian air force jet whose crew thought it was carrying drugs, civilian pilots in Peru's drug-producing Amazon region want more controls on fighter pilots they say operate with impunity.
Missionary Veronica Bowers and her 7-month-old daughter were killed in the April 20 attack. Her husband and their 6-year-old son, Cory, survived, as did pilot Kevin Donaldson, who underwent surgery on both legs.
U.S. officials say an American surveillance crew urged the military craft not to open fire because of evidence suggesting it was not smuggling drugs, but it shot the small plane down anyway.
Avila was luckier. After his frantic signaling, the fighter waggled its wings in a signal to follow and led his Cessna to a nearby military base.
His plane was allowed to leave after its flight plan and cargo were checked, but the harrowing experience stuck with him. Avila was intercepted twice in the past five years. It hasn't happened to him recently, but he said interceptions continue despite a sharp drop in drug flights.
Until last year, much of the Amazon region was under martial law to help the military fight leftist guerrillas and drug traffickers. "Civilians had no rights," Avila said.
Pilots say that while martial law has been lifted, many of the same attitudes remain.
An American pilot, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he has been intercepted three times in the past five years. The pilot, who said he feared losing his charter business in Peru if he were named, said he now flies with a ham radio. If tracked by military flights, he can contact co-workers at his base who can alert air traffic controllers.
The pilots say that there are now just four small charter planes offering flights out of Iquitos, compared with at least 70 in 1995. They typically fly a handful of locals or hardy tourists to remote locations. Peru's national airlines fly only to large Amazon cities like Iquitos and are not bothered by drug-interception flights.
Avila attributed the sharp drop in charter flights to fear, a decline in the economy and the seizure of suspected drug planes.
But Peruvian officials defend the program, which they say has helped reduce production of coca -- the main ingredient in cocaine _ in Peru by almost three quarters since 1992.
Mario Justo, director of Iquitos' airport, says the rights of small planes had been respected until the latest shoot-down
"Civil aviation never had a problem. The high percentage of flights detected were illegal. It was a very successful system. There probably was a problem with the system this time, but this is being investigated," Justo said.
The joint U.S.-Peruvian program was launched in 1992 when Peru was still the world's largest coca grower. Much of the coca that was flown in small planes over the jungle to Colombia in what was known as the drug "air bridge" ended up in the United States.
Under the program, U.S. AWAC surveillance planes fly over drug-producing regions. When a radar plane locates a suspicious flight, it radios for a Citation -- a smaller U.S. plane that can fly low -- which then observes the target visually.
A bilingual Peruvian representative on board communicates the radar and visual data collected to Peru's air force. The Peruvian pilot then verifies the suspect plane's registration, uses hand signals or radio messages to make contact, and can rock the jet's wings as a sign for the suspect plane to land. He may fire warning shots if needed, according to the pact.
If there is still no response, it can shoot or force the suspect flight down. U.S. planes are barred from taking direct action against the suspicious flights.
Since 1995, Peruvian jets have forced down or shot down 30 planes, and until now all were drug smugglers, U.S. and Peruvian officials say. There had been no reports of mistakes in Peru's media before last week, but the area is remote and largely controlled by Peru's military, making verification difficult.
Colombia is the only other country with a program in which U.S. authorities pass information on to a local air force with a shoot-down policy. Colombian authorities say they have had no deadly errors.
The United States suspended both programs pending an investigation into the downing of the missionaries' plane.
Survivors say the Peruvian jet riddled the pontoon plane with bullets without warning, a charge disputed by Peruvian officials.
"Sounds like a bunch of hot shot pilots," Jim Bowers' brother Phil, a trained pilot, said last week. "Why didn't they call and check the registration?"
LIMA, Peru (AP) -- Erik Avila was flying his single-engine Cessna with five passengers over the Amazon jungle when a Peruvian air force jet swooped alongside and hailed him by radio, demanding he identify himself.
When his microphone failed, he made frantic hand signals to the fighter pilot and held up the broken handset to show he could not answer. He feared that under a U.S.-Peruvian program to force down suspected drug flights, his air-taxi could be shot from the sky.
"It has become a no man's land, where only the armed forces knows what is going on," said Avila, a private Peruvian jungle pilot with 14 years experience who flies out of the Amazon capital of Iquitos, 625 miles northeast of Lima.
After the deadly downing of a U.S. missionary plane by a Peruvian air force jet whose crew thought it was carrying drugs, civilian pilots in Peru's drug-producing Amazon region want more controls on fighter pilots they say operate with impunity.
Missionary Veronica Bowers and her 7-month-old daughter were killed in the April 20 attack. Her husband and their 6-year-old son, Cory, survived, as did pilot Kevin Donaldson, who underwent surgery on both legs.
U.S. officials say an American surveillance crew urged the military craft not to open fire because of evidence suggesting it was not smuggling drugs, but it shot the small plane down anyway.
Avila was luckier. After his frantic signaling, the fighter waggled its wings in a signal to follow and led his Cessna to a nearby military base.
His plane was allowed to leave after its flight plan and cargo were checked, but the harrowing experience stuck with him. Avila was intercepted twice in the past five years. It hasn't happened to him recently, but he said interceptions continue despite a sharp drop in drug flights.
Until last year, much of the Amazon region was under martial law to help the military fight leftist guerrillas and drug traffickers. "Civilians had no rights," Avila said.
Pilots say that while martial law has been lifted, many of the same attitudes remain.
An American pilot, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he has been intercepted three times in the past five years. The pilot, who said he feared losing his charter business in Peru if he were named, said he now flies with a ham radio. If tracked by military flights, he can contact co-workers at his base who can alert air traffic controllers.
The pilots say that there are now just four small charter planes offering flights out of Iquitos, compared with at least 70 in 1995. They typically fly a handful of locals or hardy tourists to remote locations. Peru's national airlines fly only to large Amazon cities like Iquitos and are not bothered by drug-interception flights.
Avila attributed the sharp drop in charter flights to fear, a decline in the economy and the seizure of suspected drug planes.
But Peruvian officials defend the program, which they say has helped reduce production of coca -- the main ingredient in cocaine _ in Peru by almost three quarters since 1992.
Mario Justo, director of Iquitos' airport, says the rights of small planes had been respected until the latest shoot-down
"Civil aviation never had a problem. The high percentage of flights detected were illegal. It was a very successful system. There probably was a problem with the system this time, but this is being investigated," Justo said.
The joint U.S.-Peruvian program was launched in 1992 when Peru was still the world's largest coca grower. Much of the coca that was flown in small planes over the jungle to Colombia in what was known as the drug "air bridge" ended up in the United States.
Under the program, U.S. AWAC surveillance planes fly over drug-producing regions. When a radar plane locates a suspicious flight, it radios for a Citation -- a smaller U.S. plane that can fly low -- which then observes the target visually.
A bilingual Peruvian representative on board communicates the radar and visual data collected to Peru's air force. The Peruvian pilot then verifies the suspect plane's registration, uses hand signals or radio messages to make contact, and can rock the jet's wings as a sign for the suspect plane to land. He may fire warning shots if needed, according to the pact.
If there is still no response, it can shoot or force the suspect flight down. U.S. planes are barred from taking direct action against the suspicious flights.
Since 1995, Peruvian jets have forced down or shot down 30 planes, and until now all were drug smugglers, U.S. and Peruvian officials say. There had been no reports of mistakes in Peru's media before last week, but the area is remote and largely controlled by Peru's military, making verification difficult.
Colombia is the only other country with a program in which U.S. authorities pass information on to a local air force with a shoot-down policy. Colombian authorities say they have had no deadly errors.
The United States suspended both programs pending an investigation into the downing of the missionaries' plane.
Survivors say the Peruvian jet riddled the pontoon plane with bullets without warning, a charge disputed by Peruvian officials.
"Sounds like a bunch of hot shot pilots," Jim Bowers' brother Phil, a trained pilot, said last week. "Why didn't they call and check the registration?"