French ATC strike
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Wouldn't be suprised if they're priming their Exocets right now and picking a nice juicy target at Dover to hit in protest about our side of the channel being 20% more polluted than theirs.
Just wait till we share a currency with the sods (god I hope not). Then the fun will really start.
Just wait till we share a currency with the sods (god I hope not). Then the fun will really start.
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I realise the timing of the strike was abysmal - can't argue with that at all.
But I can't help but feel that if all of the people who were totally opposed to NATS privatisiaton had of used, or gone further along the road of insustrial action - then the company may not have been in the "mess" (allegedly) that it's in now.
At least the French will actually do something pro-active to protect themselves and their rights and ultimately their jobs.
We, as in NATS as a generalisation, just sat back and let the government take the PPP out of us - rightly or wrongly.
And I find the blatent right-wing xenophobia on display VERY disturbing. We are *supposed* to be intelligent professionals
But I can't help but feel that if all of the people who were totally opposed to NATS privatisiaton had of used, or gone further along the road of insustrial action - then the company may not have been in the "mess" (allegedly) that it's in now.
At least the French will actually do something pro-active to protect themselves and their rights and ultimately their jobs.
We, as in NATS as a generalisation, just sat back and let the government take the PPP out of us - rightly or wrongly.
And I find the blatent right-wing xenophobia on display VERY disturbing. We are *supposed* to be intelligent professionals
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And I find the blatent right-wing xenophobia on display VERY disturbing. We are *supposed* to be intelligent professionals
Almost the whole of Europe has accepted English as the only aviation language, exept the French.
WAKE UP ! Who is xenophobic here ? They ought to get a good spanking !
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: Wanula Dreaming ]
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It is not about the language, not about the fact that there will be one European airspace structure...
It's all about the fact that it will be much easier to privatize ATC services that way.
BTW,
France too uses English in their ATC communications, unless both pilot and controler agree to use French. I don't know why you guys always keep on complaining about this; it just sounds so arrogant you know that?
If I were you I'd be very embarrased by the fact that hundreds of millions of Europeans alwas have to do an effort to adapt to your language, although you are the one that is visiting them!
BTW, although not that commonly used, the French multilingual system may officially also be used in Belgium (Brussels, Liege and Charleroi) and Switzerland (Geneva).
Spain and Italy have a similar rule for their local languages.
Although I know this multilingual situation might be very confusing to a native English speaker, I have always found it very strange that in Holland, Germany or Scandinavia local people always use a foreign language to communicate with each other on ATC...
Have you ever thought how much more natural(easier and clearer) it would be for them simply to use their own language too?
It's all about the fact that it will be much easier to privatize ATC services that way.
BTW,
France too uses English in their ATC communications, unless both pilot and controler agree to use French. I don't know why you guys always keep on complaining about this; it just sounds so arrogant you know that?
If I were you I'd be very embarrased by the fact that hundreds of millions of Europeans alwas have to do an effort to adapt to your language, although you are the one that is visiting them!
BTW, although not that commonly used, the French multilingual system may officially also be used in Belgium (Brussels, Liege and Charleroi) and Switzerland (Geneva).
Spain and Italy have a similar rule for their local languages.
Although I know this multilingual situation might be very confusing to a native English speaker, I have always found it very strange that in Holland, Germany or Scandinavia local people always use a foreign language to communicate with each other on ATC...
Have you ever thought how much more natural(easier and clearer) it would be for them simply to use their own language too?
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Only one group worse than the French, and that's the bl00dy Belgians! 
When will they wake up and realise this is the 21st Century - no more cozy government subsidised jobs for life; they actually have to go out and work hard to earn their living - not get it handed to them on a plate.
I agree re JAROPS though ... what a waste of time and energy - only the Brits and the Germans (as usual) are abiding by the rules!
When will they wake up and realise this is the 21st Century - no more cozy government subsidised jobs for life; they actually have to go out and work hard to earn their living - not get it handed to them on a plate.
I agree re JAROPS though ... what a waste of time and energy - only the Brits and the Germans (as usual) are abiding by the rules!
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sabenapilot backwards,
Have you flown over the States? Long direct clearances/one sqwawk all the way/few frequency changes/few calls to be made = pilot heaven.
Why might this be? Could it possibly be that it's because they are one authority for the whole area? Couldn't it just be that this is what is needed - desperately needed in Europe?
Whether the French or any other employees see a personal disadvantage here is very much secondary in my opinion.
Have you flown over the States? Long direct clearances/one sqwawk all the way/few frequency changes/few calls to be made = pilot heaven.
Why might this be? Could it possibly be that it's because they are one authority for the whole area? Couldn't it just be that this is what is needed - desperately needed in Europe?
Whether the French or any other employees see a personal disadvantage here is very much secondary in my opinion.
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BTW,
France too uses English in their ATC communications, unless both pilot and controler agree to use French. I don't know why you guys always keep on complaining about this; it just sounds so arrogant you know that?
France too uses English in their ATC communications, unless both pilot and controler agree to use French. I don't know why you guys always keep on complaining about this; it just sounds so arrogant you know that?
A few weeks ago a French controller from Marseille broadcasted a Sigmet ONLY in French. When a Lufthansa pilot asked the controller to translate this in English, he ignored Lufthansa ! This is not the way Air Traffic Services should be. Itīs Air Traffic Sh?t !
I have always found it very strange that in Holland, Germany or Scandinavia local people always use a foreign language to communicate with each other on ATC...
Welcome to the real world !
Why make things complicated (like spelling Sabena Pilot backwards
) when life can be so much easier ?
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Just throwing another little thought into the pond for Tolipanebas. The CANAC ACC where you are is Flemish and the APP/TWR is francophone I believe. There would seem to be a language barrier there too. Yes I know that it is tiresome, but the relatively simple grammar in English does provide an advantage. How many Francophones speak Flemish? not many Ik ben en tweetaliger, bent U?
Ik ben en tweetaliger, bent U?
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Sabenapilot - there have not been 'hundreds' of deaths on British Railways since privatisation - try about 60.
In fact, the accident rate is going down, not up.
Would you argue that a privatised airline (such as BA) is any more dangerous than a state-owned one (such as AF, or SV....!). If the railways in this country were free to set their own fares, close unprofitable routes and free themselves from governmental interference, they would be successful. And don't try and argue that SNCF/RFF is successful - if you want to, we can start off with the level of debt of RFF!!!!
As for the French.....when will they realise that French culture is not the most sophisticated in the world!?
In fact, the accident rate is going down, not up.
Would you argue that a privatised airline (such as BA) is any more dangerous than a state-owned one (such as AF, or SV....!). If the railways in this country were free to set their own fares, close unprofitable routes and free themselves from governmental interference, they would be successful. And don't try and argue that SNCF/RFF is successful - if you want to, we can start off with the level of debt of RFF!!!!
As for the French.....when will they realise that French culture is not the most sophisticated in the world!?
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Itīs about time those damn red/green, left wing, neo-communists union fanatics stop their crusade against privatisation.
Unfortunately they are ALL over Europe, not just in France.
Time to get off their lazy butts and start being competitive !
Want to see the results of governments running businesses, look at Sabena or the former USSR ! They couldnīt hack it in the real world either.
Unfortunately they are ALL over Europe, not just in France.
Time to get off their lazy butts and start being competitive !
Want to see the results of governments running businesses, look at Sabena or the former USSR ! They couldnīt hack it in the real world either.
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Sorry to help you out of a dream guys, but if we'd go by the number of native speakers in Europe, we'd all have to use GERMAN as ATC language; how about that London?
Or what about Spanish? (on a global scale more people speak Spanish as first language then English...)
I fly in France now ( =>Air Lib) and yes most ATC, checklists etc. all are in French, (even when we go as far as to Tahiti) and I have no poblems with that! To me (my native language is Dutch) it's really all the same whether I use English or French.
The advantage of being culturally flexible that is...
Oh well, arrogance is often just a way to cover up ignorance, isn't it?
Ah, l'arrogance, c'est souvant ā cause d'ignorance; n'est pas?
Och, arrogantie verbergt vaak onwetendheid, is het niet?
Or what about Spanish? (on a global scale more people speak Spanish as first language then English...)
I fly in France now ( =>Air Lib) and yes most ATC, checklists etc. all are in French, (even when we go as far as to Tahiti) and I have no poblems with that! To me (my native language is Dutch) it's really all the same whether I use English or French.
The advantage of being culturally flexible that is...
Oh well, arrogance is often just a way to cover up ignorance, isn't it?
Ah, l'arrogance, c'est souvant ā cause d'ignorance; n'est pas?
Och, arrogantie verbergt vaak onwetendheid, is het niet?
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I have to say I am always in awe when I read posts regarding the French.
It is always an outpour of xenophobic full of hatred ........garbage and I really get a kick out of it because you poor souls are only digging a hole in your stomach !
What interests me though is that a week ago a Swiss airliner crashed because most obviously its crew stuffed up and the tone on PPrune was very civil, and I was wondering what it would have been like in the case of a french aircraft. Lucky us it wasn't ! Peeeewww !
Now, just a tad of a reminder kind thick skulled gents :
The right to strike is written in the constitution and until parliament makes it illegal you are going to live with it. I suggest you buy a truckload of anti acid tablets.
The purpose of a strike is precisely to annoy the public so as to get a leverage on governement to get what you want because all talks have failed. I mean, get your head out of your toush and look at Australia. They even elected a union leader as one of the longest seving Prime Minister. Aussies can' t be that wrong !!!
This strike did affect us too.......ya know ? But as I said, it's the law as the use of french on the frequency as by the way the case for Spain, Italy, Greece.........and the whole of South America without forgetting Russia. This doesn't worry me one bit.
I agree it is a bit difficult to understand why on earth these people did go on strike but my guess is that you tarts don't really get a stuff; bashing and puking your bile is what gives you the kick. Go for it boys but I think getting laid by a Mademoiselle would bring you equal release of tension as well as a lot more pleasure, but then we each have our thing.
Just this morning I was reading in the Sunday paper that starting as from next year winging poms will be allowed to go to France to get what would undoubtly be elected surgery in Britain, all of that at the cost to the NHS. All of that riding trains that leave on time and don't kill you and eating food that don't leave you walking sideways thinking you're Admiral Nelson. You ungreatfull lot, you should be on your knees kissing our feet. Would I love to be a surgeon and have one of you under my little scalpel !
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: wallabie ]
It is always an outpour of xenophobic full of hatred ........garbage and I really get a kick out of it because you poor souls are only digging a hole in your stomach !
What interests me though is that a week ago a Swiss airliner crashed because most obviously its crew stuffed up and the tone on PPrune was very civil, and I was wondering what it would have been like in the case of a french aircraft. Lucky us it wasn't ! Peeeewww !
Now, just a tad of a reminder kind thick skulled gents :
The right to strike is written in the constitution and until parliament makes it illegal you are going to live with it. I suggest you buy a truckload of anti acid tablets.
The purpose of a strike is precisely to annoy the public so as to get a leverage on governement to get what you want because all talks have failed. I mean, get your head out of your toush and look at Australia. They even elected a union leader as one of the longest seving Prime Minister. Aussies can' t be that wrong !!!
This strike did affect us too.......ya know ? But as I said, it's the law as the use of french on the frequency as by the way the case for Spain, Italy, Greece.........and the whole of South America without forgetting Russia. This doesn't worry me one bit.
I agree it is a bit difficult to understand why on earth these people did go on strike but my guess is that you tarts don't really get a stuff; bashing and puking your bile is what gives you the kick. Go for it boys but I think getting laid by a Mademoiselle would bring you equal release of tension as well as a lot more pleasure, but then we each have our thing.
Just this morning I was reading in the Sunday paper that starting as from next year winging poms will be allowed to go to France to get what would undoubtly be elected surgery in Britain, all of that at the cost to the NHS. All of that riding trains that leave on time and don't kill you and eating food that don't leave you walking sideways thinking you're Admiral Nelson. You ungreatfull lot, you should be on your knees kissing our feet. Would I love to be a surgeon and have one of you under my little scalpel !
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: wallabie ]
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Very well said Wallabie,
I too find it very interesting to see how these guys always say to others:
"You'd better adapt to the GLOBAL standards soon" whereas these GLOBAL standards are often nothing more then their local standards which were also adapted by only a few other European countries like Scandinavia, Holland, Germany, Austria and in some isolated ex-colonies like Singapore, Hong Kong (although things are rapidly changing there too now that the Brits are out...)
Seems these guys always forget that 15 or 20% of the world is not GLOBAL at all!
Wallabie, you say you suggest them to buy a truckload of anti-acid tablets...
The problem is of course that their social (un)security is in no financial position whatsoever to pay for those truckloads, and since they are all so well paid under their no labour rules, no labour restictions totalitarian freemarket economic system, they can not affort to buy them themselves.
Oh well, let them think they are Nelson; we know why that is, don't we? It's in their meat...
I too find it very interesting to see how these guys always say to others:
"You'd better adapt to the GLOBAL standards soon" whereas these GLOBAL standards are often nothing more then their local standards which were also adapted by only a few other European countries like Scandinavia, Holland, Germany, Austria and in some isolated ex-colonies like Singapore, Hong Kong (although things are rapidly changing there too now that the Brits are out...)
Seems these guys always forget that 15 or 20% of the world is not GLOBAL at all!
Wallabie, you say you suggest them to buy a truckload of anti-acid tablets...
The problem is of course that their social (un)security is in no financial position whatsoever to pay for those truckloads, and since they are all so well paid under their no labour rules, no labour restictions totalitarian freemarket economic system, they can not affort to buy them themselves.
Oh well, let them think they are Nelson; we know why that is, don't we? It's in their meat...
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Hey guys,
Don't mention the war !
Just for fun:
Q:guess what is the English King's devise ???
Aieu est mon Droit, Honnis soit qui mal y pense.
So what ?
---------------------------------------------Look through the window
Don't mention the war !
Just for fun:
Q:guess what is the English King's devise ???
A
ieu est mon Droit, Honnis soit qui mal y pense.So what ?
---------------------------------------------Look through the window
Chief PPRuNe Pilot
Sorry but acute thread drift leaves me no alternative but to close this one giving those of you with lots of pent up anger time to go lie down in your cots and play with some toys for a few hours. Trust me, it'll do you a world of good!
