Cathay Expansion Announced
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Cathay Expansion Announced
Actually week old news but I cant find it mentioned on another thread:
http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/ab...101118,00.html
CX have announced that they plan to expand their frighter fleet by 13 744's from 2005-08. Up to 12 of the 'new' 744SF's will be converted from their current pax aircraft..........no surprises then that they will need more pax aircraft to replace them!
There is also a blurb on new routes.
Also announced:
1. Heathrow base for Cathay Cabin Crew and,
2. Immediate requirement for more pilots to be based in almost every port CX operate to
3. Volunteers from Airbus fleet to transfer to 744
I doubt #2 is connected to the expansion but overall .... you cant but expect new announcements and get the feeling that something big is in the wind in the FH.
A happy new year for some at least in an industry thats taken its fair share of bashing in the last 3yrs
http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/ab...101118,00.html
CX have announced that they plan to expand their frighter fleet by 13 744's from 2005-08. Up to 12 of the 'new' 744SF's will be converted from their current pax aircraft..........no surprises then that they will need more pax aircraft to replace them!
There is also a blurb on new routes.
Also announced:
1. Heathrow base for Cathay Cabin Crew and,
2. Immediate requirement for more pilots to be based in almost every port CX operate to
3. Volunteers from Airbus fleet to transfer to 744
I doubt #2 is connected to the expansion but overall .... you cant but expect new announcements and get the feeling that something big is in the wind in the FH.
A happy new year for some at least in an industry thats taken its fair share of bashing in the last 3yrs
>>Does this mean the 49ers have a chance?<<
In the mil the nearest pub was out of bounds to officers. (So the men (& girls) could say what they pleased)
In the OM bar most senior officers took anything said by an inebriated junior officer with a large pinch of salt and let it go.
Cathay management (OK most of CX mgmt) have yet to learn this wisdom.
And, yes, I know all 49ers weren't thrown out just for shooting their mouths off in the bar but I understand some were. Well that's what they tell me
In the mil the nearest pub was out of bounds to officers. (So the men (& girls) could say what they pleased)
In the OM bar most senior officers took anything said by an inebriated junior officer with a large pinch of salt and let it go.
Cathay management (OK most of CX mgmt) have yet to learn this wisdom.
And, yes, I know all 49ers weren't thrown out just for shooting their mouths off in the bar but I understand some were. Well that's what they tell me
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As far as I can tell the only flight crew applications being accepted at the moment are as FO's on the anywhere-but-HK 747 freighter fleet (with a stated 3 years before the chance of conversion to the passenger fleet) or as a cruise pilot only SO on the passenger fleet in HK.
Is this going to remain the situation or does anyone know if there will be opportunity for experienced (Airbus) FO's to go direct to the passenger fleet? Or would this cause too many problems with the SO's already there?
Is this going to remain the situation or does anyone know if there will be opportunity for experienced (Airbus) FO's to go direct to the passenger fleet? Or would this cause too many problems with the SO's already there?
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Direct entry F/O's are highly unlikely, though never say never. The bottle neck is the ability of the training dept to turn F/O's into Captains, and to a much much lesser extent, S/O's into F/O's (this is ref. pax fleet, cant speak for the freighters)
As flagged at least a month ago in the 15 X744 thread, the immediate expansion is based on the acquisition of second hand 744's.
There is a dearth of second hand 744's with rollers out there that match the price profile. There are a few SAA a/c and the balance will be GE's (probably All Nippon) which will go to the freighter fleet after conversion.
As to crewing, you only have to look at the current demographic spread to work out DE F/O7s will be required.
300+ captains retiring over the next 2-3 years unless they finalise the extension to 60. Even if this happens then there will still be a big shortage if you factor in the DHL A300 fleet.
Therefore, given the current size and capacity of the training section, there will be a demand for experienced DE F/O's on the freighter fleet with reasonably quick time to command if you want to stay on the freighter fleet...and why wouldn't you want to stay away from the sewing circle and the cappucino set.
If 10-15 years is what you have left in the industry and thisis a job you want, I would be dusting off the CV and getting it to Kitty City.
JTR is right when he says the bottleneck is the training section but I am sure they will manage when push comes to shove.
Felix...I think you will find that more are going the other way from the 744 to the Bus due to OZ being all Bus these days.
There is a dearth of second hand 744's with rollers out there that match the price profile. There are a few SAA a/c and the balance will be GE's (probably All Nippon) which will go to the freighter fleet after conversion.
As to crewing, you only have to look at the current demographic spread to work out DE F/O7s will be required.
300+ captains retiring over the next 2-3 years unless they finalise the extension to 60. Even if this happens then there will still be a big shortage if you factor in the DHL A300 fleet.
Therefore, given the current size and capacity of the training section, there will be a demand for experienced DE F/O's on the freighter fleet with reasonably quick time to command if you want to stay on the freighter fleet...and why wouldn't you want to stay away from the sewing circle and the cappucino set.
If 10-15 years is what you have left in the industry and thisis a job you want, I would be dusting off the CV and getting it to Kitty City.
JTR is right when he says the bottleneck is the training section but I am sure they will manage when push comes to shove.
Felix...I think you will find that more are going the other way from the 744 to the Bus due to OZ being all Bus these days.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 16th Jan 2004 at 04:56.
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300+ captains retiring over the next 2-3 years unless they finalise the extension to 60
30 odd per year for the next three years.
Every time I hear a figure about the approaching retirement bulge it seems to have grown about 10% greater. Strangely enough the guys who are keenest to tell you about it are those who it affects.
Last edited by jtr; 16th Jan 2004 at 18:31.
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Emmmmmmm?
Not sure where you get your numbers from?
300+ retiring? More like 100.
WRT Aust bases...... Brisbane is the only hot spot (to the best og my knowledge). Aust Tax is keeping many in HK.
Although...the recent changed in Aust law will hopefully have a positive effect. We'll have to ask AL how many applications she gets for Aust Perm Basings?
300+ retiring? More like 100.
WRT Aust bases...... Brisbane is the only hot spot (to the best og my knowledge). Aust Tax is keeping many in HK.
Although...the recent changed in Aust law will hopefully have a positive effect. We'll have to ask AL how many applications she gets for Aust Perm Basings?
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I've tried the search, Freight Dogs, Fragrant Harbour, Wannabes, T&C's and there doesn't seem to be a straight answer anywhere....how much does a European Cathay freight FO start on?
JTR
You may have a better handle on this than I do but I think it is higher then your number over the total fleet. I am one of them so have a pretty good feel for the numbers who joined late 70's to mid 80's.
By my reckoning there is at least 5 per month going. As I probably included 2003 in the gross number, a revised figure for 2004-2006 is probably closer to 180-200.
Add this to the fleet going from just over 80 a/c today to something like 100-110 a/c by 2006 and I stand by my assertion that we will need DE F/O's with experience to man the freighter fleet.
You may have a better handle on this than I do but I think it is higher then your number over the total fleet. I am one of them so have a pretty good feel for the numbers who joined late 70's to mid 80's.
By my reckoning there is at least 5 per month going. As I probably included 2003 in the gross number, a revised figure for 2004-2006 is probably closer to 180-200.
Add this to the fleet going from just over 80 a/c today to something like 100-110 a/c by 2006 and I stand by my assertion that we will need DE F/O's with experience to man the freighter fleet.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 16th Jan 2004 at 23:43.
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A340-600
Hi,
Just wondering how many CX 346 are around and if CX are planning in bringing any into LHR. Or have they??? One last question is has anyone flown in the A340-600 and what are they like to pilot and passenger?
Thanks Dave
Just wondering how many CX 346 are around and if CX are planning in bringing any into LHR. Or have they??? One last question is has anyone flown in the A340-600 and what are they like to pilot and passenger?
Thanks Dave
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Only three CX 346s were delivered, of which 2 (when I last heard) are currently in service, the third having been damaged in a heavy landing. These acft are used to SYD, LAX and YVR.
Quite apart from the heavy landing, CX has not made a secret of the fact that it's not at all pleased with the 346's performance. It had wanted the aircraft to be able to do HKG-JFK and back, year round and apparently, it cannot without unacceptable capacity limitations. Word has it that CX is looking closely at the 773ER, despite its GE engines.
CX is still in the market for ex-BA 744s, subject to pricing.
Quite apart from the heavy landing, CX has not made a secret of the fact that it's not at all pleased with the 346's performance. It had wanted the aircraft to be able to do HKG-JFK and back, year round and apparently, it cannot without unacceptable capacity limitations. Word has it that CX is looking closely at the 773ER, despite its GE engines.
CX is still in the market for ex-BA 744s, subject to pricing.
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For those of us that don't know, does Cathay hire Second Officers or relief pilots as the entry level position? Is that why this subject of employing direct entry F/Os has come up as a possibility? I presume F/O means FIRST OFFICER and that there is no such thing as a Direct entry Captain at Cathay.
A number of the Cathay guys who have to retire at 55 have come to CAL. Is the possible change in age up from 55 anything real?
A number of the Cathay guys who have to retire at 55 have come to CAL. Is the possible change in age up from 55 anything real?
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HFX- According to the last officially published company seniority list with birthdates on it, the numbers are as follows..
27 in 2004
34 in 2005
36 in 2006
For what it is worth, the number of people still in the company who joined in the 70's ('79 specifically) can be counted on one hand. To clarify your statistical database
between start '80 and end '84 38 people joined and are still here (seems no-one joined in 81/82)
in 85 20 people joined and remain.
So a generous 7 year estimate of your "late 70's to mid 80's" database is around 60 pilots, of whom slightly less than half are due to retire between now and 2006.
Again, I cannot speak for the freighter.
I agree with your assertion that we need DE F/Os for the freighter, this is the norm. My statement was in response to Spearing Britney's question about DE F/O's going to the pax fleet.
Now about that need for extensions on the pax fleet...
27 in 2004
34 in 2005
36 in 2006
For what it is worth, the number of people still in the company who joined in the 70's ('79 specifically) can be counted on one hand. To clarify your statistical database
between start '80 and end '84 38 people joined and are still here (seems no-one joined in 81/82)
in 85 20 people joined and remain.
So a generous 7 year estimate of your "late 70's to mid 80's" database is around 60 pilots, of whom slightly less than half are due to retire between now and 2006.
Again, I cannot speak for the freighter.
I agree with your assertion that we need DE F/Os for the freighter, this is the norm. My statement was in response to Spearing Britney's question about DE F/O's going to the pax fleet.
Now about that need for extensions on the pax fleet...