Egyptair 990
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The bottom line..
The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the EgyptAir flight 990 accident is the airplane's departure from normal cruise flight and subsequent impact with the Atlantic Ocean as a result of the relief first officer's flight control inputs. The reason for the relief first officer's actions was not determined."
Direct link to the report
The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the EgyptAir flight 990 accident is the airplane's departure from normal cruise flight and subsequent impact with the Atlantic Ocean as a result of the relief first officer's flight control inputs. The reason for the relief first officer's actions was not determined."
Direct link to the report
Last edited by stagger; 14th Apr 2002 at 09:25.
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Have any Egyptians actually read the transcripts of the cockpit voice recorder tapes from the lost 767? Has anyone there spent time researching the FO's guilt-ridden past and numerous job-related problems?. .. .If so, these people would not vehemently object to the report as they are now! How ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. .. .I realize that suicide is considered taboo in the Islamic religion, but anyone with 1/4 of a brain could figure out what happened. The pilot flipped out and killed 150+ innocent people along for the ride. . .. .Don't get me wrong, I am not racist and I have no ill-will toward Egyptians. Being culturally-sensitive is important. However, this refusal to face the FACTS is upsetting me - and the families of all of the innocent victims. I actually saw that aircraft in JFK the night before it left - it had just arrived from LAX and was due to depart later. Spooky......... .. .Any irrational Egyptians want to respond????????????????? Did you read the transcript, or do you think it was fake? . .. .Let's face the FACTS and move on..........
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i am not an aviation profesional.
i am intrigued by the engines being cut off.
egyptair argues that it proves the first officer innocent since full power would have made a steeper and faster dive?
perhaps the first officer cut out the engines to complicate recovery if the captain came back into the cockpit . i would imagine restaring an engine in a mayhem situation would be difficult.
i am intrigued by the engines being cut off.
egyptair argues that it proves the first officer innocent since full power would have made a steeper and faster dive?
perhaps the first officer cut out the engines to complicate recovery if the captain came back into the cockpit . i would imagine restaring an engine in a mayhem situation would be difficult.
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Well idle power wouldn't significantly increase the speed of the dive but shutting down both engines would certainly make the situtation a lot harder to recover. I find it difficult to believe that any trained, competent pilot would deliberately shut down both engines in response to a dive like this.
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George,
Increase in thrust would, in turn, increase speed and hence lift, causing the nose to rise and the dive to decrease. The cutting of both engines was obviously undertaken to complicate any attempts at recovery.
Increase in thrust would, in turn, increase speed and hence lift, causing the nose to rise and the dive to decrease. The cutting of both engines was obviously undertaken to complicate any attempts at recovery.
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The Egyptians are not interested in the truth, so it doesn't matter what the NTSB says or does not say. Further, saying that suicide is taboo for a Muslim is farsical, as witnessed by recent events, and support by so-called Musliim clerics. Oh, and BTW, those Muslim clerics belong in the same place as the child-molesting Catholic priests.
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In answer to your question, N_A.
Got a feeling this may be removed....
http://debka.com/article.php?aid=758
Got a feeling this may be removed....
http://debka.com/article.php?aid=758
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Don't see why this link should be removed, very interesing gen about those military on board, I never knew that. It all goes to prove that these low-life scum will usually go for the easy target . Having passed through LHR today, an easy target it aint, more tooled up coppers than you can shake a stick at, let alone the plain clothes ones.
If these poor french tourists were the target, then it only goes to show that abstaining from a war doesn't make neutral you in the eyes of the terrorists.
Who the hell will want to travel on an arabic airline in the future? a great pity for the vast majority of peaceful folks out there.
Lets keep it safe,
ptc
If these poor french tourists were the target, then it only goes to show that abstaining from a war doesn't make neutral you in the eyes of the terrorists.
Who the hell will want to travel on an arabic airline in the future? a great pity for the vast majority of peaceful folks out there.
Lets keep it safe,
ptc
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Iom,
My message was posted under the correct thread, I just wondered if the relief first officer of 990 had Al Qaeda connections.
I believe the newspaper report about the Flash air flight is also on the correct thread as it goes on to mention Egyptair 990, the relief F/O and the senior Egyption military officers on 990.
I agree with you that it is pointless having more than one thread covering the same subject, however,in the fullness of time it may well be proved that Egyptair 990 and the Flash Air flight disasters have some similarities.
My message was posted under the correct thread, I just wondered if the relief first officer of 990 had Al Qaeda connections.
I believe the newspaper report about the Flash air flight is also on the correct thread as it goes on to mention Egyptair 990, the relief F/O and the senior Egyption military officers on 990.
I agree with you that it is pointless having more than one thread covering the same subject, however,in the fullness of time it may well be proved that Egyptair 990 and the Flash Air flight disasters have some similarities.
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EgyptAir 990
N_A,
I lost my dad and stepmother aboard MS990; helped set up and administer a private web forum for families; helped plan the 1-yr memorial at Newport, and served as point man on various issues from time to time. Certainly US authorities made every effort to investigate the background of Gamil El Batouty--where they had jurisdiction to do so. But NTSB officials (FBI was not forthcoming on the matter) were quite clear that they were stonewalled in Egypt.
The question you raise is paramount. However, as long as Egypt remains a crucial ally, I have little faith that the US will muster the political will to see that the question is explored.
My own impression is that Gamil El Batouty was a rather poor candidate for AlQaeda operative. From media accounts as well as those from people in the airline who knew him, he was a very secular individual without strong religious affiliation. Certainly not a fundamentalist. Further, a very casual guy, always making jokes. Only a few months from retirement, he was a relief first officer.
The party line is that his was an impulsive act of revenge against the chief 767 pilot, who had threatened him with disciplinary action in Cairo for sexual misconduct in New York. The chief pilot, having recently changed plans, was aboard the aircraft unexpectedly.
Does this make sense? Not really. But there's a hell of a lot in life that doesn't make sense, it seems to me. One thing I am quite sure of: My dad would not have wanted me to spend my time hunting down the last few days of this guy's sprint to eternity. He'd much rather know that his oldest son is lecturing tomorrow evening to a university audience about Bach's Mass in B Minor; that he has finally begun to master the Beethoven piano sonatas, and that all his children are closer than ever, and are all happy and productive in their lives.
I lost my dad and stepmother aboard MS990; helped set up and administer a private web forum for families; helped plan the 1-yr memorial at Newport, and served as point man on various issues from time to time. Certainly US authorities made every effort to investigate the background of Gamil El Batouty--where they had jurisdiction to do so. But NTSB officials (FBI was not forthcoming on the matter) were quite clear that they were stonewalled in Egypt.
The question you raise is paramount. However, as long as Egypt remains a crucial ally, I have little faith that the US will muster the political will to see that the question is explored.
My own impression is that Gamil El Batouty was a rather poor candidate for AlQaeda operative. From media accounts as well as those from people in the airline who knew him, he was a very secular individual without strong religious affiliation. Certainly not a fundamentalist. Further, a very casual guy, always making jokes. Only a few months from retirement, he was a relief first officer.
The party line is that his was an impulsive act of revenge against the chief 767 pilot, who had threatened him with disciplinary action in Cairo for sexual misconduct in New York. The chief pilot, having recently changed plans, was aboard the aircraft unexpectedly.
Does this make sense? Not really. But there's a hell of a lot in life that doesn't make sense, it seems to me. One thing I am quite sure of: My dad would not have wanted me to spend my time hunting down the last few days of this guy's sprint to eternity. He'd much rather know that his oldest son is lecturing tomorrow evening to a university audience about Bach's Mass in B Minor; that he has finally begun to master the Beethoven piano sonatas, and that all his children are closer than ever, and are all happy and productive in their lives.
Last edited by JimBrokaw; 8th Jan 2004 at 00:15.
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A fine article by a fine journalist on the subject.
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/20...ngewiesche.htm
And an interview with the author.
http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/i...2001-11-15.htm
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/20...ngewiesche.htm
And an interview with the author.
http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/i...2001-11-15.htm
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“My own impression is that Gamil El Batouty was a rather poor candidate for AlQaeda operative.”
‘From media accounts as well as those from people in the airline who knew him, he was a very secular individual without strong religious affiliation. Certainly not a fundamentalist. Further, a very casual guy, always making jokes. Only a few months from retirement, he was a relief first officer.’
What many people miss is that this crash (I can’t call it an accident) occurred before Sept 11th 2001, when few in the West had even considered the possibility of someone committing suicide – and mass murder - for political reasons at the controls of a civil jet, hence I doubt that scenario even entered into the equation then. (It had happened before, (in Morocco and Japan), but in both those cases, personal grievances had caused the perpetrator to act in what was perceived to be an irrational manner.) I’m not aware that anyone at the time the investigation into EqyptAir 990 had considered the Sept 11th scenario as being remotely possible.
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FFFlyer,
Glad you enjoyed the Atlantic Monthly piece on Egypt Air 990 (reference two posts ago).
One interesting note....the author's father is Wolfgang Langewiesche, the author of one of aviations classics, "Stick and Rudder".
Profile and interview at: http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182912-1.html
Glad you enjoyed the Atlantic Monthly piece on Egypt Air 990 (reference two posts ago).
One interesting note....the author's father is Wolfgang Langewiesche, the author of one of aviations classics, "Stick and Rudder".
Profile and interview at: http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182912-1.html
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Most of us living and working in western democracies cannot understand how the Egyptian authorities can keep a straight face after reading such a report and still claim that bad weather caused the accident.
Whatever El Batouti motives were , we will never know. What is sure though is that a non democratic totalitarian regime like Egypt will never accept a serious report blaming one of them. That's just not the way the Arab mind works. I should know for having lived and worked extensively there as a pilot. You never ever get the truth from them. Propaganda is the name of the game. Truth and the rule of law are non existent when it comes to government business.
I read a posting about Emirates some time back. While run by Westerners, the company is owned by Arabs. Can any of you tell me what would happen if an Emirates aircraft were to go down in the dramatic way of Egypt Air 990 or the mysterious way Flash 604 went down? Even after deep investigation, the owners of Emirates would deny the truth and not feel one bit bad about it. They would spread their propaganda and pretty soon passengers would go back to flying on their a/c the same way that passengers went back to flying on Egypt Air.
Finally, I must ask this question: Is it time for Westerners to stop flying Arabs or third world carriers?
Whatever El Batouti motives were , we will never know. What is sure though is that a non democratic totalitarian regime like Egypt will never accept a serious report blaming one of them. That's just not the way the Arab mind works. I should know for having lived and worked extensively there as a pilot. You never ever get the truth from them. Propaganda is the name of the game. Truth and the rule of law are non existent when it comes to government business.
I read a posting about Emirates some time back. While run by Westerners, the company is owned by Arabs. Can any of you tell me what would happen if an Emirates aircraft were to go down in the dramatic way of Egypt Air 990 or the mysterious way Flash 604 went down? Even after deep investigation, the owners of Emirates would deny the truth and not feel one bit bad about it. They would spread their propaganda and pretty soon passengers would go back to flying on their a/c the same way that passengers went back to flying on Egypt Air.
Finally, I must ask this question: Is it time for Westerners to stop flying Arabs or third world carriers?
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Dumbledore, I don't recall any of the 9/11 aircraft, the Panam Lockerbie aircraft, or the Singapore Airlines (Silkair) 737 being Arab owned.
So that would be 4 to 1 odds (Panam was not an "onboard" suicide) that Arab owned airlines are LESS likely to be the target of a suicide....for any reason.
So that would be 4 to 1 odds (Panam was not an "onboard" suicide) that Arab owned airlines are LESS likely to be the target of a suicide....for any reason.
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Can't think of a name
I never said that the airplanes that went into the WTC were Arab owned. The issue is what happens when you fly on an Arab carrier and something goes wrong.......do you get the truth? no!
The point in my posting was that, if given the choice, passengers flying to Arab or third world countries should chose for western carriers. At least, if something goes wrong, they can rely on truthful investigation.
I never said that the airplanes that went into the WTC were Arab owned. The issue is what happens when you fly on an Arab carrier and something goes wrong.......do you get the truth? no!
The point in my posting was that, if given the choice, passengers flying to Arab or third world countries should chose for western carriers. At least, if something goes wrong, they can rely on truthful investigation.