Virgin 744 EGFF Today
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First, as a courtesy to allow MagPlug to stop reading immediately, I am not a pilot. I don't pretend to be in my profile. I am not employed in the aviation industry, but I do work contractually in the industry from time to time.
I want to make two comments on MagPlug's position on the nature of PPRune and those who lurk here.
1. I have been participating in electronic asynchronous discussion forums such as PPRune sine 1987 - that is, since before there was a public access Internet. Every one I have ever stayed in for any length of time has had its MagPlugs (in the pre public access days they were usually university faculty complaining about the vapid contributions of undergraduates, or military officers complaining about the vapidity of enlisted men).
What typically happens is that the MagPlugs eventually pick up their ball and go and play by themselves, using some form of screening to cut out the silly people that they don't want to play with. What has ALWAYS happened then in my experience (and I've seen this dozens of times)is that to their surprise and horror they find that their selective playground turns out to be even more beset by the petty and the 'irrelevant' than the one they left. The final stage of the life cycle of the breakaway forum is that its members slowly creep back into the original forum, or else they disappear from the electronic community completely.
My second observation is by way of a suggestion as to why this may be so. In fact diverse open systems are much more robust, lively and full of interesting ideas than are unitary closed ones. TSadly it transpires that single groups of 'professionals' don't have a lot to say to each other, and do not stimulate each other very much (just go and listen to doctors on a golf course!). This is a truism demonstrated empirically in the psychological research which is MY playground. In groups of highly trained technical professionals new ideas tend to be generated from crossing the boundaries into other groups rather than from within. Left to themsleves highly skilled and trained professionals tend to CLOSE DOWN the discussion space rather than open it up.
It is the very presence of others with different perspectives that creates the life of these forums. Of course MagPlug is correct to the extent that it is ALSO true that it generates a lot of the irritating, the ill-informed and the petty. Bu the experience is clear. You can't have the interesting and lively without the slag.
I want to make two comments on MagPlug's position on the nature of PPRune and those who lurk here.
1. I have been participating in electronic asynchronous discussion forums such as PPRune sine 1987 - that is, since before there was a public access Internet. Every one I have ever stayed in for any length of time has had its MagPlugs (in the pre public access days they were usually university faculty complaining about the vapid contributions of undergraduates, or military officers complaining about the vapidity of enlisted men).
What typically happens is that the MagPlugs eventually pick up their ball and go and play by themselves, using some form of screening to cut out the silly people that they don't want to play with. What has ALWAYS happened then in my experience (and I've seen this dozens of times)is that to their surprise and horror they find that their selective playground turns out to be even more beset by the petty and the 'irrelevant' than the one they left. The final stage of the life cycle of the breakaway forum is that its members slowly creep back into the original forum, or else they disappear from the electronic community completely.
My second observation is by way of a suggestion as to why this may be so. In fact diverse open systems are much more robust, lively and full of interesting ideas than are unitary closed ones. TSadly it transpires that single groups of 'professionals' don't have a lot to say to each other, and do not stimulate each other very much (just go and listen to doctors on a golf course!). This is a truism demonstrated empirically in the psychological research which is MY playground. In groups of highly trained technical professionals new ideas tend to be generated from crossing the boundaries into other groups rather than from within. Left to themsleves highly skilled and trained professionals tend to CLOSE DOWN the discussion space rather than open it up.
It is the very presence of others with different perspectives that creates the life of these forums. Of course MagPlug is correct to the extent that it is ALSO true that it generates a lot of the irritating, the ill-informed and the petty. Bu the experience is clear. You can't have the interesting and lively without the slag.
Guest
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Nice post. One question. How can you claim that an HS748 operator in UK (for example) is in exactly the same group as an SIA 744 operator. I have nothing whatsoever against the spotters, but this is a PROFESSIONAL PILOTS RUMOUR NETWORK and with all due respect to the spotters I am far more interested in comparing terms, conditions, routes, technical advances etc with my fellow professionals than trying to find out the tail letters of an aircraft doing circuits and bumps.
Time to make some changes Danny. At the moment PPRUNE is false advertising.
PS. If closed forums dont work, why do we have so many airline specific forums then?
Edited for PS.
[This message has been edited by THINALBERT (edited 09 June 2001).]
Time to make some changes Danny. At the moment PPRUNE is false advertising.
PS. If closed forums dont work, why do we have so many airline specific forums then?
Edited for PS.
[This message has been edited by THINALBERT (edited 09 June 2001).]
Guest
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Those of us on this side of the pond where 'spotters' are virtually unknown, watch with bemusement these wars which erupt from time to time. Hard to understand pros getting so upset about something so utterly inconsequential.
But I do have a suggestion - move the Questions forum so that it appears immediately under R&N on the summary page. Perhaps then the reggie hunters among us will post there, since they seem not to have grasped the concept of scrolling down.
(Of course I would hope the CP washes out the immature and banal in short order.)
But I do have a suggestion - move the Questions forum so that it appears immediately under R&N on the summary page. Perhaps then the reggie hunters among us will post there, since they seem not to have grasped the concept of scrolling down.
(Of course I would hope the CP washes out the immature and banal in short order.)
Guest
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Look you - how come so many heavy aircraft and maint facilities in Wales? Do the Taffs work for less? Do they leave a golden leek after they finish their work? Do they sing together in beautiful baritones and tenors as they do heavy checks?
Wot is the secret about Wales? Last time I visited the place (admittedly years ago) the pubs were closed on Sunday! aaaaggghhhhh
JJM
Wot is the secret about Wales? Last time I visited the place (admittedly years ago) the pubs were closed on Sunday! aaaaggghhhhh
JJM
Guest
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Rongotai,
Actually I read you posting with interest and I think what you say is very true. It is postings such as yours that make interesting reading and generate intelligent debate - As opposed to why is X landing at Y?
My moment of frustration has generated debate from both camps and no small amount of vitreol toward me from one or two of my more vocal colleagues.
The broad spectrum of professional experience that contributes to this forum is for the most part a joy to read - and as I have already suggested above those contributions are not confined to aviation professionals but include folk such as yourself
I do however strongly support THINALBERT's view that we must somehow filter out more of the chaff but frankly I am at a bit of a loss to know how.
Magplug - Flamed Medium/Rare
Actually I read you posting with interest and I think what you say is very true. It is postings such as yours that make interesting reading and generate intelligent debate - As opposed to why is X landing at Y?
My moment of frustration has generated debate from both camps and no small amount of vitreol toward me from one or two of my more vocal colleagues.
The broad spectrum of professional experience that contributes to this forum is for the most part a joy to read - and as I have already suggested above those contributions are not confined to aviation professionals but include folk such as yourself
I do however strongly support THINALBERT's view that we must somehow filter out more of the chaff but frankly I am at a bit of a loss to know how.
Magplug - Flamed Medium/Rare
Guest
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I believe the specific private forums were designed to alleviate some of the anguish and anxiety some people have over mere mortals participating in this forum.
Personnally I prefer a mix of experience and tastes to keep life interesting, nothing worse than a 15 hour duty with a flight deck member whose only reason for living is flying, ´blah,blah,blah!! ´-Yawn mind you it does help me get that much needed sleep. Wake me at TOD!
Personnally I prefer a mix of experience and tastes to keep life interesting, nothing worse than a 15 hour duty with a flight deck member whose only reason for living is flying, ´blah,blah,blah!! ´-Yawn mind you it does help me get that much needed sleep. Wake me at TOD!
Guest
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What was VS doing in Cardiff? What on earth is wrong with that question? A little bit of lateral thinking here guys, not everybody knows what goes on in the UK. Mind you does anyone...I digress....personally I found it an interesting point that VS sends its aircraft to Cardiff. That's the whole point about this site, we can actually learn something from each other. I can only assume from the previous posts that someone has a maintenance facility there as well as some good singers and a rugby ground.
In a similar vein VS had three B744's all in a row, basking in the winter sunshine outside ANZ's engineering facility in Auckland the other day....anyone want the rego's.....
In a similar vein VS had three B744's all in a row, basking in the winter sunshine outside ANZ's engineering facility in Auckland the other day....anyone want the rego's.....
Guest
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Mag and Thin,
For 2 "professionals" who claim to want this forum for themselves (I didn't see anyone else supporting your viewpoint) to compare terms, conditions, etc with their fellow "professionals", you 2 seem to have very little to share from your sides of the fence, judging from your registration dates and limited numbers of posts.
What's up with that?
For 2 "professionals" who claim to want this forum for themselves (I didn't see anyone else supporting your viewpoint) to compare terms, conditions, etc with their fellow "professionals", you 2 seem to have very little to share from your sides of the fence, judging from your registration dates and limited numbers of posts.
What's up with that?
