FDX MD-10 fire in MEM
Airbubba: thanks for the post on the NTSB news on the other accident. I'll ask "&" to check on it.
I was wondering about the old landing gear on that former DC-10. How many very gusty crosswind landings had the "old gal" been through, where the downwind wing drops 'way down' onto the concrete as the autospoilers extend?
A FEDEX lady DC-10 Flt. Eng I spoke with today questioned how many hard sideloads were experienced over many years. Someone stated that it was one of the very first of the 10s from Long Beach. Hate to see a good plane destroyed.
I was wondering about the old landing gear on that former DC-10. How many very gusty crosswind landings had the "old gal" been through, where the downwind wing drops 'way down' onto the concrete as the autospoilers extend?
A FEDEX lady DC-10 Flt. Eng I spoke with today questioned how many hard sideloads were experienced over many years. Someone stated that it was one of the very first of the 10s from Long Beach. Hate to see a good plane destroyed.
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Hmmm, from some of the comments here, it would appear that a few flight crew are rather unaware that landing gear have cycle/calendar limits and are actually (surprise, surprise)overhauled/exchanged from time to time.
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Crew was well-experienced and qualified. And landing weight would not have been a factor on a leg of that length in a "Dash 10".
A wind of that magnitude would have been sporty, and there were other special reports from near that time period of gusts to 42.
I landed about 10 minutes before the accident aircraft, and gusts were as bad as I've ever seen. Plus or minus 30 on final. We made a report to tower after our landing, it was so bad.
Funny thing was, it was a beautiful day. Just a ripping dry front.
Tonight I saw the hulk still laying out there beside 36R. Quite a sobering sight. As Ernie Gann said, in this business we play for keeps.
A wind of that magnitude would have been sporty, and there were other special reports from near that time period of gusts to 42.
I landed about 10 minutes before the accident aircraft, and gusts were as bad as I've ever seen. Plus or minus 30 on final. We made a report to tower after our landing, it was so bad.
Funny thing was, it was a beautiful day. Just a ripping dry front.
Tonight I saw the hulk still laying out there beside 36R. Quite a sobering sight. As Ernie Gann said, in this business we play for keeps.
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411 and all,
Does anyone have the skinny on gear and/or component replacement for the DC-10/MD10? I was aware there was time/cycle limited component replacement, but not entire gear replacement.
The landing gears on freighters are stressed more than their passenger counterparts for the obvious reasons – higher average takeoff weights and higher average landing weights. But there is another stress imposed on many freighter gears that may not be so obvious. Look at a sort ramp for FedEx, UPS, Airborne, DHL, etc. The aircraft are packed together. To do this, max deflection turns are common. This places large torsional loads on the gear.
Just glad the crew and jumpseaters made it out ok.
And the latest from MEM media sources (30 minutes ago)
Focus on collapsed landing gear
Runway could be clear by Wednesday; witnesses sought
By Mark Watson
Contact
December 20, 2003
Thursday's accident involving a FedEx MD10 widebody cargo jetliner coincided with the collapse of the right main landing gear upon landing at the Memphis International Airport.
What caused the landing gear to collapse and what other factors played a role in the accident remain under investigation, said Joseph Sedor, National Transportation Safety Board investigator in charge
In a chilly, sunny, windswept afternoon press conference, Sedor said he hopes the runway can be cleared by Wednesday.
The NTSB team arrived Thursday evening in Memphis and walked through the scene of the accident, in which none of the seven people on the plane was seriously injured.
The cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder of the plane, built in 1971, have been forwarded to Washington for analysis, Sedor said.
FedEx took delivery of the plane in 1998 and put it into service in 2000.
Investigators have ruled out foul play, but they are interviewing witnesses and would particularly like to hear from people who witnessed the plane as it approached the runway in the air, as it landed, and as it rolled down the runway, Sedor said. Anyone who has witnessed this is asked to call the FBI at 747-4300.
Sedor held a first meeting of investigators, including people from Boeing, the Federal Aviation Authority, the Air Line Pilots Association and the Memphis-Shelby County Airport Authority.
The team was divided into groups inquiring into the following issues:
• Operations, interviewing pilots and passengers.
• Airworthiness, examining the structure and fire damage.
• Survival factors, looking over emergency equipment, like the inflatable exit ramp.
The inflatable slide apparently blew away, and passengers had to use a rope to exit the plane through the cockpit windows.
Investigators will keep the cargo in place for a day or two more, to ensure no evidence is overlooked, Sedor said.
Although Thursday was a blustery day, it did not constitute a big crosswind at the time of the landing, Sedor said.
The team has not yet checked to see if the MD10 aircraft, which is the cargo version of the DC10 passenger aircraft, has a history of landing gear failure, he said.
"In every investigation, we look at all aspects," Sedor said. "We will be on the scene another three or four days."
Producing the final report of an accident like this typically takes eight to 10 months, Sedor said
Does anyone have the skinny on gear and/or component replacement for the DC-10/MD10? I was aware there was time/cycle limited component replacement, but not entire gear replacement.
The landing gears on freighters are stressed more than their passenger counterparts for the obvious reasons – higher average takeoff weights and higher average landing weights. But there is another stress imposed on many freighter gears that may not be so obvious. Look at a sort ramp for FedEx, UPS, Airborne, DHL, etc. The aircraft are packed together. To do this, max deflection turns are common. This places large torsional loads on the gear.
Just glad the crew and jumpseaters made it out ok.
And the latest from MEM media sources (30 minutes ago)
Focus on collapsed landing gear
Runway could be clear by Wednesday; witnesses sought
By Mark Watson
Contact
December 20, 2003
Thursday's accident involving a FedEx MD10 widebody cargo jetliner coincided with the collapse of the right main landing gear upon landing at the Memphis International Airport.
What caused the landing gear to collapse and what other factors played a role in the accident remain under investigation, said Joseph Sedor, National Transportation Safety Board investigator in charge
In a chilly, sunny, windswept afternoon press conference, Sedor said he hopes the runway can be cleared by Wednesday.
The NTSB team arrived Thursday evening in Memphis and walked through the scene of the accident, in which none of the seven people on the plane was seriously injured.
The cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder of the plane, built in 1971, have been forwarded to Washington for analysis, Sedor said.
FedEx took delivery of the plane in 1998 and put it into service in 2000.
Investigators have ruled out foul play, but they are interviewing witnesses and would particularly like to hear from people who witnessed the plane as it approached the runway in the air, as it landed, and as it rolled down the runway, Sedor said. Anyone who has witnessed this is asked to call the FBI at 747-4300.
Sedor held a first meeting of investigators, including people from Boeing, the Federal Aviation Authority, the Air Line Pilots Association and the Memphis-Shelby County Airport Authority.
The team was divided into groups inquiring into the following issues:
• Operations, interviewing pilots and passengers.
• Airworthiness, examining the structure and fire damage.
• Survival factors, looking over emergency equipment, like the inflatable exit ramp.
The inflatable slide apparently blew away, and passengers had to use a rope to exit the plane through the cockpit windows.
Investigators will keep the cargo in place for a day or two more, to ensure no evidence is overlooked, Sedor said.
Although Thursday was a blustery day, it did not constitute a big crosswind at the time of the landing, Sedor said.
The team has not yet checked to see if the MD10 aircraft, which is the cargo version of the DC10 passenger aircraft, has a history of landing gear failure, he said.
"In every investigation, we look at all aspects," Sedor said. "We will be on the scene another three or four days."
Producing the final report of an accident like this typically takes eight to 10 months, Sedor said
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Huck:
Ouch. Deja vu... Wasn't there discussion of this just a month or so ago? CAL, MD-11, Hong Kong, ?99?, typhoon? Wing drop, came down with an almighty one-sided thump that either broke a main gear or pushed it clean through the wing?
R1
A wind of that magnitude would have been sporty, and there were other special reports from near that time period of gusts to 42.
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ShoreGuy
Um I dont think so, on the 757 my charter friends always operate with full pax loads and a high ZFW. we on the otherhand have reduced our certified MTOW as even a full load of freight is often lighter than a full bulk load of pax, sounds crazy i know but airfreight items are usually high value not neccessarely high weigh.
our aircraft are operated the same as pax ones in all areas, so nose in push out is normal in the hubs which would cause the same side loads as on a pax aircraft. Although i am unsure of the details of our USA operations. Indeed our maint standards are often higher as the aircraft spend all day and most weekends on the ground allowing our engineers more time to crawl over them, unlike the high utilisation rates of the passenger world.
The landing gears on freighters are stressed more than their passenger counterparts for the obvious reasons – higher average takeoff weights and higher average landing weights
Look at a sort ramp for FedEx, UPS, Airborne, DHL, etc. The aircraft are packed together
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The real fact is that nobody knows the gear load history because no record exists. This problem will go away in future generations, but that won't help those of us now who are lower on the food chain & so get to wear these relics out to their last stand.
The Reverend
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CI 642 crashed on landing on RW25L VHHH, Aug. 22,1999. during typhoon SAM. Final wind check was 32028/G36.
Quote from HKG CAD Accident report:
5. After becoming visual with the runway, the Commander disconnected the autopilot but left the autothrottle system still engaged. The aeroplane then continued to track the extended centreline, but descended and stabilised slightly low on the glideslope. At around 50 feet above the runway, coincident with the reduction of power to flight idle by the autothrottle system and the increase in pitch attitude, the indicated airspeed reduced from 170 knots to 152 knots immediately before touchdown. Although an attempt was made to flare the aeroplane in a slightly right wing down attitude (less than 4 degrees), the sink rate was maintained and the aeroplane made a hard landing at 1844 hr. Its right main wheels contacted the runway first and the touchdown was made inside the touchdown zone on the runway centreline. The underside of the right engine cowling then impacted the runway and there was an outbreak of fire followed by the detachment of the right wing. The left wing which remained intact then lifted up and the aeroplane commenced a roll and yaw to the right, which could not be corrected, and ended up in an inverted, reversed position on a grass area just to the right of the runway, some 1100 metres from the threshold.
10. The right main landing gear had separated from its mount. All four tires remained attached to the truck beam. The left main landing gear remained attached to the wing and fuselage at its attachment points. There was no evidence of any impact or fire damage to the left main landing gear. The centre landing gear fractured at the bottom of the cylinder near the axle. Its wheel truck with tires was found on the runway near the wreckage. The nose landing gear remained attached to the front section of the fuselage with minimal structural damage.
http://streaming.scmp.com/aircrash/C...ne_crash1f.avi
Quote from HKG CAD Accident report:
5. After becoming visual with the runway, the Commander disconnected the autopilot but left the autothrottle system still engaged. The aeroplane then continued to track the extended centreline, but descended and stabilised slightly low on the glideslope. At around 50 feet above the runway, coincident with the reduction of power to flight idle by the autothrottle system and the increase in pitch attitude, the indicated airspeed reduced from 170 knots to 152 knots immediately before touchdown. Although an attempt was made to flare the aeroplane in a slightly right wing down attitude (less than 4 degrees), the sink rate was maintained and the aeroplane made a hard landing at 1844 hr. Its right main wheels contacted the runway first and the touchdown was made inside the touchdown zone on the runway centreline. The underside of the right engine cowling then impacted the runway and there was an outbreak of fire followed by the detachment of the right wing. The left wing which remained intact then lifted up and the aeroplane commenced a roll and yaw to the right, which could not be corrected, and ended up in an inverted, reversed position on a grass area just to the right of the runway, some 1100 metres from the threshold.
10. The right main landing gear had separated from its mount. All four tires remained attached to the truck beam. The left main landing gear remained attached to the wing and fuselage at its attachment points. There was no evidence of any impact or fire damage to the left main landing gear. The centre landing gear fractured at the bottom of the cylinder near the axle. Its wheel truck with tires was found on the runway near the wreckage. The nose landing gear remained attached to the front section of the fuselage with minimal structural damage.
http://streaming.scmp.com/aircrash/C...ne_crash1f.avi
Last edited by HotDog; 21st Dec 2003 at 15:36.
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As a former ramp rat/marshaller, I can verify that (at least as of about 5 years ago) UPS air hub in Louisville, which is of a pretty similar size to FedEx's Memphis operation from what I understand, was using pushbacks on only one of four ramps, mostly on 757s. Getting the aircraft out of spots was a little "tricky" if the inbound marshallers had messed up a bit. What effect this has on sideload fatigue on a DC-10, I obviously can't say, and I might point out that a lot of the aircraft we were nosing out of tight spots were very high time super 70 series DC-8s, and none of them had catastrophic landing accidents that I'm aware of. Nor am I making any claims expressed or implied w/r/t the cause of this particular accident.
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>>...I might point out that a lot of the aircraft we were nosing out of tight spots were very high time super 70 series DC-8s, and none of them had catastrophic landing accidents that I'm aware of. <<
How about this one:
______________________________
NTSB Identification: NYC95IA106 . The docket is stored in the (offline) NTSB Imaging System.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier UNITED PARCEL SERVICE
Incident occurred Saturday, May 13, 1995 in LOUISVILLE, KY
Probable Cause Approval Date: 2/27/96
Aircraft: DOUGLAS DC-8-71, registration: N707UP
Injuries: 3 Uninjured.
THE DC-8-71 LANDED, AND THEN ON ROLLOUT, IT SETTLED TO THE RIGHT, ALLOWING THE #3 AND #4 ENGINE COWLINGS TO SETTLE ONTO THE RUNWAY. AN INVESTIGATION REVEALED THE RIGHT MAIN LANDING GEAR CYLINDER HAD FAILED CIRCUMFERENTIALLY, JUST ABOVE THE RETRACT CYLINDER ATTACH POINT. THE LANDING GEAR THEN ROTATED AND COLLAPSED REARWARD. METALLURGICAL EXAMINATION OF THE LANDING GEAR CYLINDER REVEALED PREEXISTING CRACKS ON THE INSIDE SURFACE. THE CAUSE OF THE CRACKING WAS NOT VERIFIED.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident as follows:
preexisting crack(s) on the inside surface of the right main landing gear cylinder, and the subsequent fracture of the cylinder, which resulted in a collapse of the right main landing gear.
Full narrative available
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...07X03525&key=1
How about this one:
______________________________
NTSB Identification: NYC95IA106 . The docket is stored in the (offline) NTSB Imaging System.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier UNITED PARCEL SERVICE
Incident occurred Saturday, May 13, 1995 in LOUISVILLE, KY
Probable Cause Approval Date: 2/27/96
Aircraft: DOUGLAS DC-8-71, registration: N707UP
Injuries: 3 Uninjured.
THE DC-8-71 LANDED, AND THEN ON ROLLOUT, IT SETTLED TO THE RIGHT, ALLOWING THE #3 AND #4 ENGINE COWLINGS TO SETTLE ONTO THE RUNWAY. AN INVESTIGATION REVEALED THE RIGHT MAIN LANDING GEAR CYLINDER HAD FAILED CIRCUMFERENTIALLY, JUST ABOVE THE RETRACT CYLINDER ATTACH POINT. THE LANDING GEAR THEN ROTATED AND COLLAPSED REARWARD. METALLURGICAL EXAMINATION OF THE LANDING GEAR CYLINDER REVEALED PREEXISTING CRACKS ON THE INSIDE SURFACE. THE CAUSE OF THE CRACKING WAS NOT VERIFIED.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident as follows:
preexisting crack(s) on the inside surface of the right main landing gear cylinder, and the subsequent fracture of the cylinder, which resulted in a collapse of the right main landing gear.
Full narrative available
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...07X03525&key=1
