Monarch wanted a Monarch to wait. (Merged)
Sounds like Luton ATC ( based at LATCC) screwed up, they knew the Reds were coming and should have ensured that the area was clear at that time. A slightly longer vector for the Monarch would have solved the problem I would have thought.
Whether the flight was scheduled (note spelling) or not nor whether it was running on time or not does not change the price of butter one iota.
The Red Arrows were allocated the airspace at that particular time and that's the end of the story.
The Red Arrows were allocated the airspace at that particular time and that's the end of the story.
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ehhh, correct me if i'm wrong but an aircraft on final approach has priority over all other traffic !!!
if the airbus had gone around - and something had happened, (most cocked up manouver in flying) me thinks the controller would be looking for another job !
commercial flight plans operate to +/- 3 mins ? i,m sure bucket red 6 or whatever they call themselves could have found something to occupy himself with for 10 sec's !
if the airbus had gone around - and something had happened, (most cocked up manouver in flying) me thinks the controller would be looking for another job !
commercial flight plans operate to +/- 3 mins ? i,m sure bucket red 6 or whatever they call themselves could have found something to occupy himself with for 10 sec's !
Obviously it does otherwise the CAA would not have allocated the airspace in the way that they did.
If you don't like it complain to your MP, the CAA and possibly the Battersea Dogs Home. You could even have a nationwide referendum and ask the public if they would rather watch the Red Arrows or else watch a Monarch Airbus landing at Luton.
I'm sure George Bush caused much greater mayhem during his recent visit but then he didn't go near Luton I suppose.
If you don't like it complain to your MP, the CAA and possibly the Battersea Dogs Home. You could even have a nationwide referendum and ask the public if they would rather watch the Red Arrows or else watch a Monarch Airbus landing at Luton.
I'm sure George Bush caused much greater mayhem during his recent visit but then he didn't go near Luton I suppose.
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K76
What a great idea - lets all ignore CAA rules, ATC regulations and NOTAMs completely and base the landing priority system on who puts the most amount of money into an airport! Hmmmm, I think I see a flaw in your plan.
What a great idea - lets all ignore CAA rules, ATC regulations and NOTAMs completely and base the landing priority system on who puts the most amount of money into an airport! Hmmmm, I think I see a flaw in your plan.
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Hey you guys (and gals) dont forget the Reds are omnipotent. Not only can they do no wrong but they can even fly their single engined aircraft across London. Now you try and get the CAA to authhorise that for you. By the way the rate at which they have "incidents" with these single engines at the taxpayers expense seems to be greater than the commercial bretheren but they are still exempt. Dont question just keep paying the taxes to keep the egos intact. (edited to add abit) Why would that particular route be chosen knowing that it would potentially conflict with CAT?
Ohcirrej
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What this boils down to, and has been highlighted here before (remember the thread reference the Tornado flight over the War Memorial that went over the top of LHR?) is some **** who recieves the proposal from the Sparrow's Ops/Planning hasn't got the foggiest of the impact of what is being requested and approves it. It's almost seems that for these "fly-pasts", the dickheads that approve them haven't got the balls to suggest a mutually beneficial solution.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to plan a route that will be benficial to ALL parties involved. This is not a shot at the Sparrows, and yes I realise they were afforded CAT E status, however a simple routing to the east of Luton by 6-8 miles, while affording them the protection of CAS (if that's what they wanted) would allow scheduled stuff inbound to be unaffected. The speed these guys were flying, that displacement would have meant seconds (with a 6 minute window!) Everybody happy!
TC EGLL work CAT B flights on a daily basis (without going into specifics) and 9 times out of 10 if you tell them their intentions will impeed on the flow into LL, they happily take the hint.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to plan a route that will be benficial to ALL parties involved. This is not a shot at the Sparrows, and yes I realise they were afforded CAT E status, however a simple routing to the east of Luton by 6-8 miles, while affording them the protection of CAS (if that's what they wanted) would allow scheduled stuff inbound to be unaffected. The speed these guys were flying, that displacement would have meant seconds (with a 6 minute window!) Everybody happy!
TC EGLL work CAT B flights on a daily basis (without going into specifics) and 9 times out of 10 if you tell them their intentions will impeed on the flow into LL, they happily take the hint.
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Red Arrows
Newcomer to this site, thought I would throw in my halfpenneth!
Came across the thread concerning the rights or otherwise of the Red Arrows Aerobatic team taking priority over an inbound Monarch flight. There were some rather facetious remarks made about the team and it's pilots which I find surprising coming from fellow pilots.
I'm sure that nobody would deny that the pilots of the Red Arrows team are the very best in the profession. The precision and close flying that they exhibit is surely the pinnacle of flying abilities. By that I mean of course "flying" in contrast to "managing" an aircraft. (Not meant to be in any way derogatory to commercial pilots). Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you guys enter the business because you love to fly? Could there be a smidgen of jealousy from those who posted the snide remarks?
As with the majority of open forum sites, (and this is certainly one of the best I have come across), there will be a minority who drag down the level of discussion, nonetheless, I was really surprised at the acrimony directed towards the Arrows.
Before I get lambasted as a non-pilot, I have had a great deal of exposure to the flying fraternity from the fact that my father was a military pilot all his life, both for the R.A.F and other forces. He flew something like 30 types of aircraft and was a flying instructor for many years. He never, ever, tired of the joys of flying, (the only thing that stopped him was being on the receiving end of a mortar attack damaging his legs to such an extent he could no longer manage rudder control). His admiration for the pilots of the Arrows was boundless and always with the utmost respect from one pilot to another who was amongst the very best in the world. I think he would be shocked by the attitude expressed by some people.
Ah well, that's off the chest. Good luck guys and keep safe.
Came across the thread concerning the rights or otherwise of the Red Arrows Aerobatic team taking priority over an inbound Monarch flight. There were some rather facetious remarks made about the team and it's pilots which I find surprising coming from fellow pilots.
I'm sure that nobody would deny that the pilots of the Red Arrows team are the very best in the profession. The precision and close flying that they exhibit is surely the pinnacle of flying abilities. By that I mean of course "flying" in contrast to "managing" an aircraft. (Not meant to be in any way derogatory to commercial pilots). Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you guys enter the business because you love to fly? Could there be a smidgen of jealousy from those who posted the snide remarks?
As with the majority of open forum sites, (and this is certainly one of the best I have come across), there will be a minority who drag down the level of discussion, nonetheless, I was really surprised at the acrimony directed towards the Arrows.
Before I get lambasted as a non-pilot, I have had a great deal of exposure to the flying fraternity from the fact that my father was a military pilot all his life, both for the R.A.F and other forces. He flew something like 30 types of aircraft and was a flying instructor for many years. He never, ever, tired of the joys of flying, (the only thing that stopped him was being on the receiving end of a mortar attack damaging his legs to such an extent he could no longer manage rudder control). His admiration for the pilots of the Arrows was boundless and always with the utmost respect from one pilot to another who was amongst the very best in the world. I think he would be shocked by the attitude expressed by some people.
Ah well, that's off the chest. Good luck guys and keep safe.
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One of the characteristics of this forum and the pilots' community in general is a damned good and constant sense of humour and an ability to give as good as ya get from yer mates.
In that context, calling the Red Arrows pilots a bunch of arrogant b**gers is hardly a facetious remark and no less than you would expect around here.
It does not necessarily imply any lack of respect for their flying abilities, except for the quip about the fact that they can't navigate. That's why they always fly so low, so they can read the road signs!!!
In that context, calling the Red Arrows pilots a bunch of arrogant b**gers is hardly a facetious remark and no less than you would expect around here.
It does not necessarily imply any lack of respect for their flying abilities, except for the quip about the fact that they can't navigate. That's why they always fly so low, so they can read the road signs!!!
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Fair comment.
I do recall some of the banter between various flying factions. My father had a healthy circumspection for rotary wing aircraft, usually referring to them as "a collection of spare parts flying in close formation".
I do recall some of the banter between various flying factions. My father had a healthy circumspection for rotary wing aircraft, usually referring to them as "a collection of spare parts flying in close formation".
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Singleton gives way to a formation - least it did when I went to throttles and rudder school! Don't let that stand in the way of a good sla99ing banter session though! Bl00dy civvies, should load enough fuel for a decent hold, tip your hat and say "after you sir"
FX Guru
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Well, no-one replied to my earlier post about the animosity towards the Red Arrows. I'm still baffled, but Workinghard seems to sum it all up. Tosser.
All I can say is that the crew that were pissed off by an event that will probably only occur once in their lifetime are tossers as well.
I'm a taxpayer in the UK. There's plenty I don't like paying tax for, but I don't mind subbing the Red Arrows.
Over and out.
All I can say is that the crew that were pissed off by an event that will probably only occur once in their lifetime are tossers as well.
I'm a taxpayer in the UK. There's plenty I don't like paying tax for, but I don't mind subbing the Red Arrows.
Over and out.