paper trails-photocopying pax details on dep.
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paper trails
So if we are to believe what we read in the Sunday Times and BBC news 30th Nov. Mr Blunkett , Home secretary. wants Airlines to photocopy travellers passports on the way out to cut down on asylum seekers. I am sure our check in staff all over the UK will be really chuffed at doing this, the logistics will be a nightmare where will all this paper be stored who will get to see it,lots of oppertunity for fraud. does the great man have shares in Xerox . Can you imagine a carrier not boarding you because they have run out of paper.
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I've always found it amazing that some proof of checking passports etc at check-in isn't in force, considering the huge fines handed out.
However, I also think that perhaps the HS should be looking at better technology than a photocopier - a scanner would be cheap (so every c/in could have one - imagine the chaos if a central photocopier had to be used!), allow the agent to carry on checking in the pax while the passport was being scanned, and have an electronic copy that could easily (a) be kept secure from those who don't need access and (b) allow for easy deletion after a period of time.
My 2p worth, anyway.
Ll
However, I also think that perhaps the HS should be looking at better technology than a photocopier - a scanner would be cheap (so every c/in could have one - imagine the chaos if a central photocopier had to be used!), allow the agent to carry on checking in the pax while the passport was being scanned, and have an electronic copy that could easily (a) be kept secure from those who don't need access and (b) allow for easy deletion after a period of time.
My 2p worth, anyway.
Ll
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Last time I heard of this it related to photo copying these documents at point of departure - ie: somewhere else - in order to counter those "asylum seekers" who found it beneficient to destroy all their documents in-flight in the hope of making their claims more difficult to verify and delay return to their own countries after their false claims were undone. Real asylum seekers would be happy to provide whatever documents they have on arrival. You can't get on an international flight without showing passports and/or visas, so if you show up at destination without them - what have you done to them? Cheap investment would be worthwhile in a bunch of photo copiers or scanners at check-in counters.
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What's needed is e-Manisfest and / or Border Guard
If any airlines want to know how to integrate the above kit with their reservation system(s). i.e. to aid & abet the speed of the check-in process, then please get in contact with me ( standard IT contract rates apply ).
Rgds,
Tony
e-Manifest
e-Manifest is a automated passenger manifest application for airlines and other carriers. It captures a complete record of passenger documents at check-in÷a digital electronic manifest that includes searchable text (such as names and nationalities), along with proof-positive document images and ID photos.
Officials can securely search the database as needed and view manifests in real time from a web browser anywhere in the world. And because e-Manifest runs on the iA-thenticate platform, it can authenticate documents instantly at check-in and store their test results for later forensic analysis.
BorderGuard
BorderGuard is an ID authentication application that runs on the iA-thenticate platform. Immigration and border control authorities use it to prevent illegal immigration, combat terrorism, and restrain criminal activity.
BorderGuard benefits governments and the people they serve by:
Preventing illegal entry by detecting faked and forged travel documents
Improving the effectiveness and productivity of border control personnel
Shortening lines at entry/exit points
Reducing human error by deploying automated solutions
Curbing fraud among security officials and protecting them from threats
e-Manifest is a automated passenger manifest application for airlines and other carriers. It captures a complete record of passenger documents at check-in÷a digital electronic manifest that includes searchable text (such as names and nationalities), along with proof-positive document images and ID photos.
Officials can securely search the database as needed and view manifests in real time from a web browser anywhere in the world. And because e-Manifest runs on the iA-thenticate platform, it can authenticate documents instantly at check-in and store their test results for later forensic analysis.
BorderGuard
BorderGuard is an ID authentication application that runs on the iA-thenticate platform. Immigration and border control authorities use it to prevent illegal immigration, combat terrorism, and restrain criminal activity.
BorderGuard benefits governments and the people they serve by:
Preventing illegal entry by detecting faked and forged travel documents
Improving the effectiveness and productivity of border control personnel
Shortening lines at entry/exit points
Reducing human error by deploying automated solutions
Curbing fraud among security officials and protecting them from threats
Rgds,
Tony
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CrashDive,
Please get in touch with Monarch with that info - would save the guys at Aviance MAN (and I dare say everywhere else) an awful lot of trouble with dodgy ID.
I have noticed that bmi are using photos now at security points - not sure if that has anything to do with the Boarder Gaurd technology.
Cheers,
HS
Please get in touch with Monarch with that info - would save the guys at Aviance MAN (and I dare say everywhere else) an awful lot of trouble with dodgy ID.
I have noticed that bmi are using photos now at security points - not sure if that has anything to do with the Boarder Gaurd technology.
Cheers,
HS
I just fear that one of our "friends" in the legal profession will do a "you have no evidence that this photocopy is of the passport of my client", and we will be right back where we started.
Someone checking in for Kabul - Moscow - Amsterdam - London, how could you trace the photocopy back to the point of check-in with a carrier that doesn't even serve the UK.
Someone checking in for Kabul - Moscow - Amsterdam - London, how could you trace the photocopy back to the point of check-in with a carrier that doesn't even serve the UK.
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chiglet
prob with arriving with no documents - where did they come from? Some will then claim that they came from places with political turmoil, when in fact they came from down the road, which is politically stable but they fancy being an economic refugee.
This problem will not be solved by having photocopies of all passengers passports. Can everyone image the search through the piles of copies, to try to find a photograph of someone who has destroyed their documents ?
cur
prob with arriving with no documents - where did they come from? Some will then claim that they came from places with political turmoil, when in fact they came from down the road, which is politically stable but they fancy being an economic refugee.
This problem will not be solved by having photocopies of all passengers passports. Can everyone image the search through the piles of copies, to try to find a photograph of someone who has destroyed their documents ?
cur
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One of the best bits about the e-Manifest / Boarder Guard system(s) are that they will immediately detect and record fraudulent or tampered passports - and they can also scan / read / record other documents too, e.g. travel visa's, credit cards, signatures, etc.
The system can also capture biometric information such that a scan of passport & picture details can be matched with facial and other features.
The system is able to forward electronic copies of what has been captured by its image-reader, e.g. maybe sending details on to the Home Office / Special Branch / MI5 / MI6 / FBI / CIA, such that these organisations have advanced information as to who is travelling from where..... the system can also be programmed to integrate with external databases such as the Met Police's, to prevent travel of known trouble makers, e.g. football holigans, i.e. dependent upon what is deemed appropriate, there can be a soft or hard response.
Nb. The above systems are already approved by UK Immigration such that Airlines which use these systems are exempt any fines should their passengers rip-up / lose / destroy their travel documents after boarding the aircraft.
The system can also capture biometric information such that a scan of passport & picture details can be matched with facial and other features.
The system is able to forward electronic copies of what has been captured by its image-reader, e.g. maybe sending details on to the Home Office / Special Branch / MI5 / MI6 / FBI / CIA, such that these organisations have advanced information as to who is travelling from where..... the system can also be programmed to integrate with external databases such as the Met Police's, to prevent travel of known trouble makers, e.g. football holigans, i.e. dependent upon what is deemed appropriate, there can be a soft or hard response.
Nb. The above systems are already approved by UK Immigration such that Airlines which use these systems are exempt any fines should their passengers rip-up / lose / destroy their travel documents after boarding the aircraft.
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Huge numbers of "asylum seekers" were coming in via lorries until swinging fines appeared for the carriers. That had a remarkable effect on numbers so why should the airlines not bear some responsibility for similar miscreants. Surely the carrier is in a position to know where they boarded and it is then the responsibility (and cost) of the carrier to return them to place of origin. Too simple or what?
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But the airlines already do bear the costs, i.e. they are fined ( £1500 per miscreant ) and they also have to cover the repatriation costs ( and that does not mean they can wait for the cheapest Apex fare ).
The problem is that many airlines use handling agents to do the check-in and sometimes they are nothing like as thorough as they should be. Though, on the flip-side, it is quite unfair to expect a check-in person to be able to determine that a travel document ( e.g. passport / Visa ) is legitimate or not.
The problem is that many airlines use handling agents to do the check-in and sometimes they are nothing like as thorough as they should be. Though, on the flip-side, it is quite unfair to expect a check-in person to be able to determine that a travel document ( e.g. passport / Visa ) is legitimate or not.
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CD - i was unaware of the £1500.00 So why are people without valid docs not put on the next a/c out from whence they came? I know it is some years ago when I was there but in Bahrain this happened. No valid papers no entry next a/c out. Happened to a senior UK official once who had forgotten his passport
WorkingHard:
This fine has been about for a long time (used to be £1,000). IIRC an Egyptian charter carrier once brought a whole MD80 load of pax with no UK papers into Gatwick, and got fined £167,000 - I believe they never operated into the UK again.
CrashDive
The issue about handling agents is valid. Recently with a friend checking in on the Flying Finn service from Stansted to Helsinki, which is handled by Servisair. Friend on a Russian passport with a Finnish visa, this is written in Finnish which of course the Servisair desk agent did not understand at all.
This fine has been about for a long time (used to be £1,000). IIRC an Egyptian charter carrier once brought a whole MD80 load of pax with no UK papers into Gatwick, and got fined £167,000 - I believe they never operated into the UK again.
CrashDive
The issue about handling agents is valid. Recently with a friend checking in on the Flying Finn service from Stansted to Helsinki, which is handled by Servisair. Friend on a Russian passport with a Finnish visa, this is written in Finnish which of course the Servisair desk agent did not understand at all.
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RESCUE3 I can corroborate that. Certainly the one I remember had a digital camera or a photocopier (may have been the latter, it must have been about 9 years ago now...) built in to a podium and it took photos while it was being inspected. The file was then sent on a subsequent flight. IIRC it saved the airline a packet.
I'm not sure whether it was discontinued or not though. There was quite a discussion regarding Data Protection issues.
I'm not sure whether it was discontinued or not though. There was quite a discussion regarding Data Protection issues.
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paper trails
Besides the fact that the UK cannot impose it's law on other countries and have side-stepped the problem by demanding photocopies must be presented on arrival to UK, the greeks refuse to comply as it's illegal over there to photocopy docs and itlay have stated they will increase their handling costs if forced to comply.
Not only are the UK Gov at it but the EU wants carriers to track non EU citizens who don't show for their return flight, providing pax details in 48hrs.
Can't see many being able to comply with either of these.
Not only are the UK Gov at it but the EU wants carriers to track non EU citizens who don't show for their return flight, providing pax details in 48hrs.
Can't see many being able to comply with either of these.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
So why are people without valid docs not put on the next a/c out from whence they came?
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Globaliser - would it really be so hard to screen people getting off BEFORE they mix with other arrivals. If the will was there it would be the easiest thing in the world. Perhaps there are too many vested interests in allowing a free for all.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Theoretically possible, yes, but desperately impractical. Resources, and passenger and airline unhappiness at the necessary disembarkation delays, would be top of my guess list for the problems in doing this. You just need to consider the chaos and delay which there sometimes is at smaller European airports where the inbound immigration control is done at the gate. No big big airport anywhere does this, as far as I know.
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<<<
Globaliser - would it really be so hard to screen people getting off BEFORE they mix with other arrivals. If the will was there it would be the easiest thing in the world. Perhaps there are too many vested interests in allowing a free for all.
>>>
It's not unusual on arriving in the US (in my experience anyway) to have to show a passport briefly to immigration officers at the top of the jetway just after getting off - before proceeding on to the official immigration process. I am surprised no-one has mentioned this. This has occasionally happened to me in other countries as well, eg. France, Canada, plus Eastern Europe.
To my surprise the same thing happened to me at Gatwick a few weeks ago.
I guess it is possible but will require additional manpower. I am not sure what it achieves except that it does confirm on which specific flight an individual without documents has arrived.
Globaliser - would it really be so hard to screen people getting off BEFORE they mix with other arrivals. If the will was there it would be the easiest thing in the world. Perhaps there are too many vested interests in allowing a free for all.
>>>
It's not unusual on arriving in the US (in my experience anyway) to have to show a passport briefly to immigration officers at the top of the jetway just after getting off - before proceeding on to the official immigration process. I am surprised no-one has mentioned this. This has occasionally happened to me in other countries as well, eg. France, Canada, plus Eastern Europe.
To my surprise the same thing happened to me at Gatwick a few weeks ago.
I guess it is possible but will require additional manpower. I am not sure what it achieves except that it does confirm on which specific flight an individual without documents has arrived.
