BA pilots permitted to work on until 60
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BA pilots permitted to work on until 60
Understand that as from February 06 BA pilots will be permitted to extend their employ until 60 years of age. Thereafter, they may negotiate annually untill 65 years.
What sort of effect will this have on BA for the more junior ranks and will this effect a number of airlines that have been able to benefit from the BA currrent 55 years, with experienced pilots available and fully trained i.e VA and EZ
Apparently this will naturally apply to cabin crew. I understand that this is pre-empting EU employment law. From a company perspective clearly there is the possiblities of savings.
What sort of effect will this have on BA for the more junior ranks and will this effect a number of airlines that have been able to benefit from the BA currrent 55 years, with experienced pilots available and fully trained i.e VA and EZ
Apparently this will naturally apply to cabin crew. I understand that this is pre-empting EU employment law. From a company perspective clearly there is the possiblities of savings.
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"Apparently this will naturally apply to cabin crew."
Shouldn't affect cabin crew - they already work untill they are 128 years old.
"From a company perspective clearly there is the possiblities of savings."
How did you work that out? Surley more guys on pp24 for longer = more expensive.
Shouldn't affect cabin crew - they already work untill they are 128 years old.
"From a company perspective clearly there is the possiblities of savings."
How did you work that out? Surley more guys on pp24 for longer = more expensive.
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No decision on this has been made yet. The EU employment legislation has not been finalised yet so BA are in no position to formulate a response. It's highly likely people will be able to stay on beyond 55 but nothing's decided.
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There’s less to this than meets the eye. It’ll probably involve the employee who wishes to work to 60 transferring to a franchise on a new contract. Also BA has yet to adopt the European legislation, the Prince of Darkness is apparently going to take on the whole of the EU from his Battlestar anyway.
It’s usually best with BA to take the view that anything that looks too good to be true probably is, and will probably end up costing you a lot of money. According to the latest runes, we are all in for another plague of pestilence anyway with a major attack on flight crew T&C’s just around the corner.
The making life profoundly unpleasant department is about to unleash Beelzebub.
It’s usually best with BA to take the view that anything that looks too good to be true probably is, and will probably end up costing you a lot of money. According to the latest runes, we are all in for another plague of pestilence anyway with a major attack on flight crew T&C’s just around the corner.
The making life profoundly unpleasant department is about to unleash Beelzebub.
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Ah, how time just seems to fly by. Before you know it you're 54, your retirement package is trashed or you had to start over at the bottom of the list or had to make concessions
. Funny how one's perspective changes. It seems like yesterday I was in the right seat hoping that old guy over there would retire. Now the F/O's give me that look
. Funny how one's perspective changes. It seems like yesterday I was in the right seat hoping that old guy over there would retire. Now the F/O's give me that look
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I thought the French had an age 60 rule, which (as was pointed out) they tried to inflict on everyone else.
I had understood that although the captains were required to retire as such at age 55, they were/are allowed to continue to age 60 if they reverted to being SFOs?
I had understood that although the captains were required to retire as such at age 55, they were/are allowed to continue to age 60 if they reverted to being SFOs?
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The French, like everyone else will have to conform to the new rules when they are applied.
BA's decision has probably more to do with pensions than anything else. Time will tell.
BA's decision has probably more to do with pensions than anything else. Time will tell.
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The French, like everyone else will have to conform to the new rules when they are applied
Sadly history suggests the French Government will do what they like in their own country.
France, Italy and Portugal currrently exercise the terms of an ICAO annex that allows them to prohibit overflight or landing by Commanders aged 60 or over.
Are ICAO changing their rules?
It’ll probably involve the employee who wishes to work to 60 transferring to a franchise on a new contract.
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Just for the record, the 60-year rule imposed in French airspace is actually included in ICAO Annex 1, which the French DGAC has implemented, while the CAA hasn't...
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FlapOne,
Just go back a a few weeks ago to the thread on new EU legislation to prevent employers forcing people to retire if they do not wish to do so.
It will come into force by about mid 2006.
IFR
Just go back a a few weeks ago to the thread on new EU legislation to prevent employers forcing people to retire if they do not wish to do so.
It will come into force by about mid 2006.
IFR
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Does anyone know how BA intend to manage this? A pilot who was 55 on the 1st February could have a five year longer career (and associated pension improvements) than a pilot who was 55 on the 30th January (assuming that the changeover date was the 1st February).
Could be interesting times?
Airclues
Could be interesting times?
Airclues
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CA.
Interesting times indeed. BA will probably like the new legislation because it will be less of a burden on their pension scheme. Something which is affecting many similar schemes. Some of them are in dire straights.
Roobarb.
Make no mistake. BA, or any other airline, cannot opt out or decide one way or another. Not yet anyway. The EU are determined that this legislation will become effective in 2006. However, there are provisions, "in exceptional circumstances" where a new retirement age can be agreed. We will have to wait until the middle of next year to see what this means.
Interesting times indeed. BA will probably like the new legislation because it will be less of a burden on their pension scheme. Something which is affecting many similar schemes. Some of them are in dire straights.
Roobarb.
Make no mistake. BA, or any other airline, cannot opt out or decide one way or another. Not yet anyway. The EU are determined that this legislation will become effective in 2006. However, there are provisions, "in exceptional circumstances" where a new retirement age can be agreed. We will have to wait until the middle of next year to see what this means.
Last edited by PPRuNe Pop; 31st Oct 2003 at 04:24.
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The EU countries were supposed to have already introduced legislation banning a mandatory retirement age. At the Berlin summit in Nov 2002, the UK and France were taken to task for failing to introduce legislation. A final date of Dec 2006 was imposed at the summit. Failure to comply will mean that the EU will be able to take the countries to the EU court. Similarily, individual citizens will be able to claim compensation from their governments, through the EU courts, for loss of their right to continue working. Make no mistake - this legislation will come into force. The exact wording of the law, with all the variuos exemptions/exceptions has yet to be presented to parliament, but it will have to comply with everything in the EU directive which has been in existence for over ten years now.
BA, like every other employer in UK will have to change their mandatory retirement date.
As for the French/ICAO rules regarding a ban on Captains on international flights over the age of 60 - well the airline will have to use you on routes where you can legally fly. If the airline does not have enough routes avoiding France to give to old pilots, then the company would be obliged to terminate your employment - because there is no work for you to do. Clearly no employer will be forced to retain people who cannot legally do the job they are contracted for. They might choose to offer you a first officer's post, where flying over France would be legal, but presumably the rate of pay would be less, because the responsibility and experience requirements of the post are less.
Britannia are ahead of the game here. They allow Captains, the option to move to First officer at the age of 60.
Perhaps, in the next few years ICAO will change the aviation treaty, to allow international captains over 60. Then France would be out on a limb within Europe, and would be forced to comply with current JAA rules which do allow Captains over 60.
BA, like every other employer in UK will have to change their mandatory retirement date.
As for the French/ICAO rules regarding a ban on Captains on international flights over the age of 60 - well the airline will have to use you on routes where you can legally fly. If the airline does not have enough routes avoiding France to give to old pilots, then the company would be obliged to terminate your employment - because there is no work for you to do. Clearly no employer will be forced to retain people who cannot legally do the job they are contracted for. They might choose to offer you a first officer's post, where flying over France would be legal, but presumably the rate of pay would be less, because the responsibility and experience requirements of the post are less.
Britannia are ahead of the game here. They allow Captains, the option to move to First officer at the age of 60.
Perhaps, in the next few years ICAO will change the aviation treaty, to allow international captains over 60. Then France would be out on a limb within Europe, and would be forced to comply with current JAA rules which do allow Captains over 60.
