BA pilots permitted to work on until 60
Age Discrimination
Was at a European Employment Workshop yesterday and can say for sure, for sure, that in 2006 Age Discrimination will be added to the EC Employment Directive to join, Sexual Orientation (2003), Religion and Belief (2003), etc. etc.
Questions about whether you reached a particular age on 31 February or 1 March just won't apply.
Questions about whether you reached a particular age on 31 February or 1 March just won't apply.
Just another number
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Dave
Why do you say that the date of birth does not apply. If someone is forced to retire one day before the legislation comes into force he is now no longer an employee and therefore has no employment rights. Someone who is due to retire the day after the legislation is protected.
If you say that an airlines retired pilots can demand their jobs back, then how far back do you go?
Just curious!
Airclues
Why do you say that the date of birth does not apply. If someone is forced to retire one day before the legislation comes into force he is now no longer an employee and therefore has no employment rights. Someone who is due to retire the day after the legislation is protected.
If you say that an airlines retired pilots can demand their jobs back, then how far back do you go?
Just curious!
Airclues
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Funny how its "convenient" for BA now that the pension results are imminent!!
Just remind me again - who was it who took a pension holiday during the good times? Having youre cake and eating it springs to mind.
Of course it will all be wrapped up in a "good for staff" covering, lets not also forget those ex forces on a second career chaps!
Just remind me again - who was it who took a pension holiday during the good times? Having youre cake and eating it springs to mind.
Of course it will all be wrapped up in a "good for staff" covering, lets not also forget those ex forces on a second career chaps!
Controversial, moi?
Just remind me again - who was it who took a pension holiday during the good times? Having youre cake and eating it springs to mind.
Of course it will all be wrapped up in a "good for staff" covering, lets not also forget those ex forces on a second career chaps.
PS I am not ex RAF but despise the selfish attitude exhibited by you and your ilk.
Cool Mod
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I am given to understand that EU legislation takes precedence. Until such changes that may be deemed to be required are approved - by the EU. For a change ICAO, and the French, will have to toe the line as far as Europe is concerned. That term might well have some significance, since there will be toe to toe in-fighting.
Still, the French are always trying to impose their particular thinking on almost anything!
Still, the French are always trying to impose their particular thinking on almost anything!
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The ICAO rules come from the aviation treaty which is signed by participating sovereign countries (in this case by virtually every country in the world), and has the same legal obligations (under international law) as any other treaty between nations.
It does not specify what pilots' licenses are required in one's own country, which is a national affair, but only specifies the licenses and conditions of pilots flying into, or over another signatory country.
So , the UK should not let it's own over 60 captains fly over France. Similarily the French should not let their pilots fly over UK. Unfortunately French logic has been distorted to the degree that they have taken it on themselves to prevent landing and overflight, rather than allowing it to happen while at the same time complaining through diplomatic channels that the UK is disregarding the treaty obligations.
From what I can gather, we are only talking about over the land and out to the international coast limit of 12 miles. The French have no legal jurisdiction over the Bay of Biscay for example, which is in an FIR administered by France, but which is totally free international airspace in which flights can take place by unlicensed aircraft with unlicensed crews without prior notification or flight plan - just like the Russian spy planes flying down the coast of Scotland or the Americans flying along the coast of China.
It does not specify what pilots' licenses are required in one's own country, which is a national affair, but only specifies the licenses and conditions of pilots flying into, or over another signatory country.
So , the UK should not let it's own over 60 captains fly over France. Similarily the French should not let their pilots fly over UK. Unfortunately French logic has been distorted to the degree that they have taken it on themselves to prevent landing and overflight, rather than allowing it to happen while at the same time complaining through diplomatic channels that the UK is disregarding the treaty obligations.
From what I can gather, we are only talking about over the land and out to the international coast limit of 12 miles. The French have no legal jurisdiction over the Bay of Biscay for example, which is in an FIR administered by France, but which is totally free international airspace in which flights can take place by unlicensed aircraft with unlicensed crews without prior notification or flight plan - just like the Russian spy planes flying down the coast of Scotland or the Americans flying along the coast of China.
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Hmm, I would think that EU legislation would take precedence over the ICAO treaty as one is law and the latter an agreement.
The relaxation of the “infamous age 60 rule” was due for a change in any case, as the general population is healthier and living longer then those of past years.
The actuaries have guessed wrong in their assumptions concerning pension plans funding thus the stage has been set for a change..
Add in the proliferation of the LCC’s with pilots retiring from the majors and then starting a new career with the LCC’s and you have major union problems trying to enforce the “age 60” lobby. The majors simply cannot afford to have their highly trained retired pilots competing against them flying for the LCC’s. Thus they probably will ask the ICAO to modify the age 60 rules so that they can retain these individuals..Rather like closing the barn door after the horses's have bolted.
The pilot’s unions will be the last major stumbling block but I can’t see them holding out in the long term as the aviation business model has been changed by the LCC’s.
I’m a recently retired A340 Captain so I have no axe’s to grind either way, however out of interest at the retired airline pilot’s meetings that I attend, the group is probably equally divided on the age 60 rule. The retired pilot’s, who are in good health and were having a good time, wanted to continue past age 60, while those in poor health or had just lost interest wanted out age 60 or earlier.
In my opinion only..
Cheers
The relaxation of the “infamous age 60 rule” was due for a change in any case, as the general population is healthier and living longer then those of past years.
The actuaries have guessed wrong in their assumptions concerning pension plans funding thus the stage has been set for a change..
Add in the proliferation of the LCC’s with pilots retiring from the majors and then starting a new career with the LCC’s and you have major union problems trying to enforce the “age 60” lobby. The majors simply cannot afford to have their highly trained retired pilots competing against them flying for the LCC’s. Thus they probably will ask the ICAO to modify the age 60 rules so that they can retain these individuals..Rather like closing the barn door after the horses's have bolted.
The pilot’s unions will be the last major stumbling block but I can’t see them holding out in the long term as the aviation business model has been changed by the LCC’s.
I’m a recently retired A340 Captain so I have no axe’s to grind either way, however out of interest at the retired airline pilot’s meetings that I attend, the group is probably equally divided on the age 60 rule. The retired pilot’s, who are in good health and were having a good time, wanted to continue past age 60, while those in poor health or had just lost interest wanted out age 60 or earlier.
In my opinion only..
Cheers
Last edited by Tan; 4th Nov 2003 at 01:41.
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Compulsory retirement age is a subject that, one way or another, affects most pilots reading this thread. It is therefore depressing to read so much cr*p on such an important subject. A few facts:
The UK government has until late 2006 to introduce age discrimination legislation that complies with the European directive on the subject. This UK legislation has yet to be published. No-one knows quite what form it will take. The only certainty is that it has to comply with the requirements of the directive. The directive is very vague. Of specific importance to professional pilots is the fact that, a) it permits mandatory national retirement ages for specific occupations subject only to objective justification, and b), it permits Member States to exempt certain occupations from the requirements of the directive.
There is nothing in the directive that would force the French to abandon their over 60 restrictions.
No-one yet knows whether this new UK legislation will have any material effect on UK Professional Pilots. Anyone pretending to know otherwise is speaking though an orifice not normally noted for that function.
The UK government has until late 2006 to introduce age discrimination legislation that complies with the European directive on the subject. This UK legislation has yet to be published. No-one knows quite what form it will take. The only certainty is that it has to comply with the requirements of the directive. The directive is very vague. Of specific importance to professional pilots is the fact that, a) it permits mandatory national retirement ages for specific occupations subject only to objective justification, and b), it permits Member States to exempt certain occupations from the requirements of the directive.
There is nothing in the directive that would force the French to abandon their over 60 restrictions.
No-one yet knows whether this new UK legislation will have any material effect on UK Professional Pilots. Anyone pretending to know otherwise is speaking though an orifice not normally noted for that function.
Thread Starter
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When I started this thread it was stated by the BA Chief Pilot last week that BA Flight and Cabin Crew after Feb 06 would be allowed to remain to 60 and beyond. BA were pre-empting that which will become EU legislation on Dec 06. What other European airlines do to address this in the meantime is a matter for them. Be assured that BA would not be taking this action unless they saw no other options.
