Royal Nepal 757
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Royal Nepal 757
Right after the take off from Kathmandu bound for Hongkong. The Royal Nepal B757-200 experienced HSI failure followed by ADI, FMC, DME, RMI, Autothrottle and ultimately Autopilot.
For almost 1 hour the aircraft was flown manually with megnetic heading Indicator and some guidance from the Radar control Kathmandu.
The weather was marginal, raining in some places. Initially the crew headed the Aircraft towards New Delhi as it was the take off departure alternate Airport. However when the weather improved at Kathmandu, the crew were able to Land the aircraft back to Kathmandu Airport safely with the help from ATC.
A classic example of Good Crew co-ordination.
For almost 1 hour the aircraft was flown manually with megnetic heading Indicator and some guidance from the Radar control Kathmandu.
The weather was marginal, raining in some places. Initially the crew headed the Aircraft towards New Delhi as it was the take off departure alternate Airport. However when the weather improved at Kathmandu, the crew were able to Land the aircraft back to Kathmandu Airport safely with the help from ATC.
A classic example of Good Crew co-ordination.
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They lost all those systems? On both sides? What on earth caused that?
Still glad they got it down safely. used to work for them many moons ago (about 5 1/2 yrs ago) and must say I did enjoy myself.
It is hard to describe the beauty of a Himalayan sunrise or sunset, especially when the light refracts off the shimmer of a typical Kathmandu smog!! Sigh!!
Still glad they got it down safely. used to work for them many moons ago (about 5 1/2 yrs ago) and must say I did enjoy myself.
It is hard to describe the beauty of a Himalayan sunrise or sunset, especially when the light refracts off the shimmer of a typical Kathmandu smog!! Sigh!!
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@ himalaya:
"A classic example of Good Crew co-ordination"
Maybe good crew coordination while flying, but what about decision making. They had a Take Off Alternate, why they didnīt us it? What I understand is, that they lost nearly all avionics. Radar in this part of the world in not very helpful. So they did a visual approach RWY 02? Of course itīs their homebase, but be honest, do you think itīs a good idea to shoot an approach there? I had been in KTM several times, I wouldnīt like to do an approach with more than 6 degree angle in marginal weather.
Maybe you have another opinion, but thatīs mine.
"A classic example of Good Crew co-ordination"
Maybe good crew coordination while flying, but what about decision making. They had a Take Off Alternate, why they didnīt us it? What I understand is, that they lost nearly all avionics. Radar in this part of the world in not very helpful. So they did a visual approach RWY 02? Of course itīs their homebase, but be honest, do you think itīs a good idea to shoot an approach there? I had been in KTM several times, I wouldnīt like to do an approach with more than 6 degree angle in marginal weather.
Maybe you have another opinion, but thatīs mine.
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re:
They lost the instruments on the both sides. Visual approach was made on RWY 20. I don't know how serious it was as I do not fly B757 but the first hand information from the crew made it sound pretty scary to me, I definitely feel a disaster was avoided. A Safe landing was made.
A night before the same aircraft had experienced left engine vibration.
cheers !
himalaya.
A night before the same aircraft had experienced left engine vibration.
cheers !
himalaya.
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Looks like they need to improve maitenance standard. Avionics they have lost made them fly like c150 as we did during PPL.As a pilot we are paid and trained for it.
jetstream-
By the way I had similar experience like yours with CH and UK pilots while I was teaching them bush flying in Africa.
jetstream-
By the way I had similar experience like yours with CH and UK pilots while I was teaching them bush flying in Africa.
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To jetstream:
Being a Nepalese Pilot, I would like to know What is it that you know about the Nepalese pilots which I do not know. Had this happened to Any europian or western crew Bet you would have as many things to say !?!
When ever I put the aircraft down at lukla or Simikot airport (1600-1800 ft RWY, one way approach, upslope and no missed approach possible), during 15 kts cross wind, I see the looks on the faces of some of the foreign pilots who come to visit these places.
To drive a bus:
The thing I have learnt over the years is, during an emergency, the hell with every thing, First thing Just fly the aircraft ,get it under your control. Second thing, if the problem can't be fixed in the air, get it down safely. I think the crew did exactly that.
I did not know there was an alternative to a safe landing. And what would that be ?
Maybe you have another opinion, but thatīs mine.
To mono:
That is exactly the reason why I am stucked out here ! Getting paid to see the himalayas everyday. Bet you do miss it !!
Being a Nepalese Pilot, I would like to know What is it that you know about the Nepalese pilots which I do not know. Had this happened to Any europian or western crew Bet you would have as many things to say !?!
When ever I put the aircraft down at lukla or Simikot airport (1600-1800 ft RWY, one way approach, upslope and no missed approach possible), during 15 kts cross wind, I see the looks on the faces of some of the foreign pilots who come to visit these places.
To drive a bus:
The thing I have learnt over the years is, during an emergency, the hell with every thing, First thing Just fly the aircraft ,get it under your control. Second thing, if the problem can't be fixed in the air, get it down safely. I think the crew did exactly that.
I did not know there was an alternative to a safe landing. And what would that be ?
Maybe you have another opinion, but thatīs mine.
To mono:
That is exactly the reason why I am stucked out here ! Getting paid to see the himalayas everyday. Bet you do miss it !!
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I have flown to Kathmandu twice, once with Royal Nepal and once with Biman Bangledesh. The scenery as you approach is unreal. but by far the best flights I have ever been on were the flights to and from Lukla and the flight from Jomson to Pockhara.
Its true what Himalaya says about passengers faces as you see the tiny spot on the side of a mountain that these guys land on at altitude and no second chances. It really is the most awesome bit of flying. The guy that taught me to fly who has in excess of 16000 flying hours when shown the photos of my trip to Lukla said "thats real flying that is!!!"
By the way Himalaya which airline do you fly for?
Its true what Himalaya says about passengers faces as you see the tiny spot on the side of a mountain that these guys land on at altitude and no second chances. It really is the most awesome bit of flying. The guy that taught me to fly who has in excess of 16000 flying hours when shown the photos of my trip to Lukla said "thats real flying that is!!!"
By the way Himalaya which airline do you fly for?
Last edited by duir; 14th Oct 2003 at 03:46.
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Latest !
To Overtalk:
The incident took place on the 9th Oct '03. Flight No: RA409, B757-200.
To Middle path:
I must admit that you are well informed about the maintainance not being too good in RA Jets, and about the Operation Director Being a F/O who ordered the crew grounded.
To Duir:
Its true about the satisfaction and chill people experience going to these places. The approaches and landings are equally exciting every time we go there. I fly for one of the Twinotter operators out here.
Here is the Latest about the Incident:
At the KTM ground, before depature for Hongkong, the B757/200 Flight NO: RA 409 had an IRS problem where by one of the IRS was not working. The Commander had asked the Engineers to fix the problem before the flight as they thought they would need it during an approach to Hongkong Airport. God knows what the Engineers did, all the 3 IRS were gone. BTW I agree 100% with middle path regarding the maintenance not being too good on the RA Jets. (The engineers seem to be more interested in flying allowances than keeping the Aircraft Airworthy. That is the reason why the RA B757 Jet Engineers have more flight hours than the RA B757 Captains and co-pilots. So, you can guess the qualifications of the Engineers youself). Later, after fiddling with the problem (I wouldn't call it fixing the problem) for 30 minutes the Engineers were able to recover 2 out of the 3 IRS. At that ,point the Commander asked them to replace the unserviceable IRS. Although the company had a brand new IRS in their stuck, the Engineers told the Commander that the couldn't do it (Your guess is as good as mine) because they didn't have the qualification to do it !?! So, what the Engineers did was release the flight under MEL.
Right after the T/O on IGRIS 1A departure while the aircraft was turing right to intercept the 4 DME ARC, The aircraft lost both the remaining IRS. Followed by all the navigation equipments failure, Ex. all auto pilots gone, HSI gone, ADI gone, Auto Throttle Gone, No vor, No dme no RMI as well as Yaw Damper failure.
Condition was marginal VFR at the time of departure. The crew had with them the magnetic (Ball) compass, standby Artificial Horizon to control the Aircraft and all manual flying. For about 45-50 minutes the Aircraft was trying to fly VFR under cloudy condition and the Aircraft was headed towards New Delhi. But Later as the WX at KTM Airport improved the crew decided to Land back at KTM Airport.
The factor that contributed to the safe Landing of B757 was crew's knowledge about the local terrain and that KTM is their home base. Had this happended (I hope and pray that it doesn't happen again to anyone else) to some other Foreign Airline, I feel it would have been Very Very Difficult (but not impossible) to come out of the Kathmandu valley which is sorrounded by mountains.
For your kind information, There has been a number of Aircrashes around the mountains surrounding the KTM Valley mostly during their approach to KTM and some during the departure from KTM Airport.
1. PIA (A310)- on sierra approach, 8 DME south of KTM
2. Lufthansa Cargo(B727) - South West departure at 6 DME South west
3. Skyline Airways(DHc-6/300)- on approach from at 15 Dme south.
4. Necon Air(HS 748) - on approach to KTM at 7 DME west.
5. Thai Airways (A310) - on approach to KTM at 20 DME North.
6. DC-3 : During approach 9 Dme east of KTM
7 DC-3 : during approach 11 Dme south of KTM
8. Royal Nepal DHC-6/300: During Departure at 2 DME North.
9. Royal nepal PC-6 : During Departure at 4 Miles North.
Have a good day and happy landings everybody.
Himalaya.
The incident took place on the 9th Oct '03. Flight No: RA409, B757-200.
To Middle path:
I must admit that you are well informed about the maintainance not being too good in RA Jets, and about the Operation Director Being a F/O who ordered the crew grounded.
To Duir:
Its true about the satisfaction and chill people experience going to these places. The approaches and landings are equally exciting every time we go there. I fly for one of the Twinotter operators out here.
Here is the Latest about the Incident:
At the KTM ground, before depature for Hongkong, the B757/200 Flight NO: RA 409 had an IRS problem where by one of the IRS was not working. The Commander had asked the Engineers to fix the problem before the flight as they thought they would need it during an approach to Hongkong Airport. God knows what the Engineers did, all the 3 IRS were gone. BTW I agree 100% with middle path regarding the maintenance not being too good on the RA Jets. (The engineers seem to be more interested in flying allowances than keeping the Aircraft Airworthy. That is the reason why the RA B757 Jet Engineers have more flight hours than the RA B757 Captains and co-pilots. So, you can guess the qualifications of the Engineers youself). Later, after fiddling with the problem (I wouldn't call it fixing the problem) for 30 minutes the Engineers were able to recover 2 out of the 3 IRS. At that ,point the Commander asked them to replace the unserviceable IRS. Although the company had a brand new IRS in their stuck, the Engineers told the Commander that the couldn't do it (Your guess is as good as mine) because they didn't have the qualification to do it !?! So, what the Engineers did was release the flight under MEL.
Right after the T/O on IGRIS 1A departure while the aircraft was turing right to intercept the 4 DME ARC, The aircraft lost both the remaining IRS. Followed by all the navigation equipments failure, Ex. all auto pilots gone, HSI gone, ADI gone, Auto Throttle Gone, No vor, No dme no RMI as well as Yaw Damper failure.
Condition was marginal VFR at the time of departure. The crew had with them the magnetic (Ball) compass, standby Artificial Horizon to control the Aircraft and all manual flying. For about 45-50 minutes the Aircraft was trying to fly VFR under cloudy condition and the Aircraft was headed towards New Delhi. But Later as the WX at KTM Airport improved the crew decided to Land back at KTM Airport.
The factor that contributed to the safe Landing of B757 was crew's knowledge about the local terrain and that KTM is their home base. Had this happended (I hope and pray that it doesn't happen again to anyone else) to some other Foreign Airline, I feel it would have been Very Very Difficult (but not impossible) to come out of the Kathmandu valley which is sorrounded by mountains.
For your kind information, There has been a number of Aircrashes around the mountains surrounding the KTM Valley mostly during their approach to KTM and some during the departure from KTM Airport.
1. PIA (A310)- on sierra approach, 8 DME south of KTM
2. Lufthansa Cargo(B727) - South West departure at 6 DME South west
3. Skyline Airways(DHc-6/300)- on approach from at 15 Dme south.
4. Necon Air(HS 748) - on approach to KTM at 7 DME west.
5. Thai Airways (A310) - on approach to KTM at 20 DME North.
6. DC-3 : During approach 9 Dme east of KTM
7 DC-3 : during approach 11 Dme south of KTM
8. Royal Nepal DHC-6/300: During Departure at 2 DME North.
9. Royal nepal PC-6 : During Departure at 4 Miles North.
Have a good day and happy landings everybody.
Himalaya.
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bumpluk solution
Suspect faulty (Murphied) IRS triplex reconnection/re-racking by grndcrew following attempts to isolate a faulty centre IRS for MEL. #One hooked incorrectly to centre (dead), #two hooked up to #one etc - and circumstance enabled by one IRS being MEL'd out of the picture. (but the one thus disabled by the MEL attempt was probably a functioning one). The perils of inadvertent interchange of units or their connections....
Fault probably set off by TOGA press (for IRS reset) on runway line-up....and real conflict started once aircraft turned for SID ( IGRIS 1A departure) and corrective voltages (to precess gyros etc) were being applied (but all of these now being to the wrong place, i.e. wrong corrector coils). Systems failures followed because all the required input data-feeds were either not forthcoming or were being actively rejected, not crc-checking or wrong polarity.
If it is possible to murphy an installation, sooner or later someone will do it. Having all the leads off and being in a rush to replace two and MEL the third sounds like a classic "departure rush" setup.
Fault probably set off by TOGA press (for IRS reset) on runway line-up....and real conflict started once aircraft turned for SID ( IGRIS 1A departure) and corrective voltages (to precess gyros etc) were being applied (but all of these now being to the wrong place, i.e. wrong corrector coils). Systems failures followed because all the required input data-feeds were either not forthcoming or were being actively rejected, not crc-checking or wrong polarity.
If it is possible to murphy an installation, sooner or later someone will do it. Having all the leads off and being in a rush to replace two and MEL the third sounds like a classic "departure rush" setup.
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more !
Middle Path :
You are right, there was no autobrake (antiskid) during the landing.
Dagger Dirk !
BINGO !!!
The involved cockpit crew are still grounded. The hot rumor in Aviation circle in Nepal is that, the present F/O operations director and his dy. director, flight operations (international sector) have been trying set up the cockpit crew, for personal reasons. The reason ? The cockpit crew are disliked by the f/o operations director and his dy. director flight operations-international. btw these directors (lets not name them here) have had their own history, one had gone to the jail in the past and the other have had series of incidents being drunk while on flight duty being the latest. But that's royal nepal airlines. if you can catch a politician, even if you are a trainee pilot, u can become an operations director.
btw unlike royal nepal, the private operators in nepal are very professional and have been maintaining their aircraft very well.
You are right, there was no autobrake (antiskid) during the landing.
Dagger Dirk !
BINGO !!!
The involved cockpit crew are still grounded. The hot rumor in Aviation circle in Nepal is that, the present F/O operations director and his dy. director, flight operations (international sector) have been trying set up the cockpit crew, for personal reasons. The reason ? The cockpit crew are disliked by the f/o operations director and his dy. director flight operations-international. btw these directors (lets not name them here) have had their own history, one had gone to the jail in the past and the other have had series of incidents being drunk while on flight duty being the latest. But that's royal nepal airlines. if you can catch a politician, even if you are a trainee pilot, u can become an operations director.
btw unlike royal nepal, the private operators in nepal are very professional and have been maintaining their aircraft very well.
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Dagger Dirk,
Have you ever been in a 757 e&e bay or even a 757 come to that! The utter tosh you wrote there is typical of the uninformed bull***t written by people who do not know.
757 IRS's are hard wired through their back plates there are no connectors to swap. It is only possible to swap units not individual connectors. TOGA press does not reset the IRU's, it acts as a mark, a start point for the IRU (runway threashold is usually the datum for IRS PPOS).
I personally, without all the facts, have no idea what caused the multiple system failure (and I have 17 yrs B757 avionc experience) I do know from personal experience that the internal politics within RNAC makes it very difficult to do the simplest things (like getting spares from the store).
For me I'm glad they got it down safely, and will wait for more info before I speculate.
Have you ever been in a 757 e&e bay or even a 757 come to that! The utter tosh you wrote there is typical of the uninformed bull***t written by people who do not know.
757 IRS's are hard wired through their back plates there are no connectors to swap. It is only possible to swap units not individual connectors. TOGA press does not reset the IRU's, it acts as a mark, a start point for the IRU (runway threashold is usually the datum for IRS PPOS).
I personally, without all the facts, have no idea what caused the multiple system failure (and I have 17 yrs B757 avionc experience) I do know from personal experience that the internal politics within RNAC makes it very difficult to do the simplest things (like getting spares from the store).
For me I'm glad they got it down safely, and will wait for more info before I speculate.
Still behind the curtain
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Himalaya,
My father-in-law was a U.S. communications officer stationed in New Delhi and he also covered Nepal. He's dead now, but we used to have some interesting conversations about his air travels in Asia when I was a young student pilot.
One of the places he mentioned, I believe, was Simikot, where he said the runway ended and that was it -- a 1,000 or 2,000 drop to the nearest ground and mountains on the other end. It could have been somewhere else, but the message is clear. No missed approaches.
At the time he said most of the flights in and out of Nepal (this being in the late 1950s) were piloted mainly by ex-pats from Britain and the U.S. The Burma hump warriors who stayed behind for whatever reasons. He said a lot took to the bottle. He had one flight out on a DC-3 where the pilot stood beside the plane with a bottle of Scotch waiting for the sunrise and as soon as it had crested, took two big swigs and said, "Let's go."
My father-in-law died peacefully in Virginia at the age of 84, although he told me a number of hair-raising flying incidents while based in New Delhi in the 1950s.
My father-in-law was a U.S. communications officer stationed in New Delhi and he also covered Nepal. He's dead now, but we used to have some interesting conversations about his air travels in Asia when I was a young student pilot.
One of the places he mentioned, I believe, was Simikot, where he said the runway ended and that was it -- a 1,000 or 2,000 drop to the nearest ground and mountains on the other end. It could have been somewhere else, but the message is clear. No missed approaches.
At the time he said most of the flights in and out of Nepal (this being in the late 1950s) were piloted mainly by ex-pats from Britain and the U.S. The Burma hump warriors who stayed behind for whatever reasons. He said a lot took to the bottle. He had one flight out on a DC-3 where the pilot stood beside the plane with a bottle of Scotch waiting for the sunrise and as soon as it had crested, took two big swigs and said, "Let's go."
My father-in-law died peacefully in Virginia at the age of 84, although he told me a number of hair-raising flying incidents while based in New Delhi in the 1950s.
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Most unusual things happening is uasual in this country.
It is unusual to appoint a F/O as operations director. But it is usual in Nepal, when relations with minister is strengthened by donation.The said ops director was jailed on charges of forgery for smugling ilegal immigrants to Japan.
Second in line in ops for international ,landed at Delhi without landing clearence on wrong runway. Doctors should monitor more seriously this guys health since he is overweight,suspected of sugar problem besides alcohol. I think this is the begining of the end for this company. Professionals are overrun by unprofesionals.It is duty of Every responsible person to protect life of innocents on board and ground. Passengers will think twice before buying tickets.
It is unusual to appoint a F/O as operations director. But it is usual in Nepal, when relations with minister is strengthened by donation.The said ops director was jailed on charges of forgery for smugling ilegal immigrants to Japan.
Second in line in ops for international ,landed at Delhi without landing clearence on wrong runway. Doctors should monitor more seriously this guys health since he is overweight,suspected of sugar problem besides alcohol. I think this is the begining of the end for this company. Professionals are overrun by unprofesionals.It is duty of Every responsible person to protect life of innocents on board and ground. Passengers will think twice before buying tickets.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 18th Oct 2003 at 04:36.
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As someone unfimiliar with the type and the territory this thread makes incredible reading. Scandalous statements about the senior staff aside it would appear to me that the crew did a good job.
On the tech side could I ask 757 jockeys would a triple IRS failure take out RDMI ( or its 757 equivalent ) as well as the EHSI?
On the tech side could I ask 757 jockeys would a triple IRS failure take out RDMI ( or its 757 equivalent ) as well as the EHSI?
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Faire d'income
Perhaps a more illuminating question might be: "what could cause a triple INS failure? (albeit one of them was disconnected after being identified as failed and the a/c released under MEL). Is it all about the voting integrity of a triple INS compared to the disputational contention of only having two INS/IRS in service.... and those two being incorrectly racked, connected or otherwise hooked up.
What does this incident/near accident tell us about MEL?
Maybe Mono (the Mouth) could elucidate on the likely possibilities - if he wasn't so busy being highly sanctimonious.... and actually knows what he's talking about. But I fear that he's hiding behind that non-speculative stance - as his ilk often do when equally frustrated about such an event (yet allegedly highly qualified enough to be supposedly able to analyze it).
Without some knowledgeable speculation, given the nature of Royal Nepal's culture and Boeing's propensity for concealing bad PR, the incident will otherwise be lost as a learning experience.
Perhaps a more illuminating question might be: "what could cause a triple INS failure? (albeit one of them was disconnected after being identified as failed and the a/c released under MEL). Is it all about the voting integrity of a triple INS compared to the disputational contention of only having two INS/IRS in service.... and those two being incorrectly racked, connected or otherwise hooked up.
What does this incident/near accident tell us about MEL?
Maybe Mono (the Mouth) could elucidate on the likely possibilities - if he wasn't so busy being highly sanctimonious.... and actually knows what he's talking about. But I fear that he's hiding behind that non-speculative stance - as his ilk often do when equally frustrated about such an event (yet allegedly highly qualified enough to be supposedly able to analyze it).
Without some knowledgeable speculation, given the nature of Royal Nepal's culture and Boeing's propensity for concealing bad PR, the incident will otherwise be lost as a learning experience.