Law Suits against Boeing dropped re SILKAIR crash
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Law Suits against Boeing dropped re SILKAIR crash
Can anyone confirm that the law suits against Boeing regarding the SilkAir 1997 B737 crash have been settled out of court? If so, what message does this send to the aviation community and the travelling public in general?
I personally thought that the plaintiffs were chasing the $$ by sueing Boeing. Afterall, those who have had intimate knowledge of this tragedy will say that pilot suicide was the most likely cause.
I was surprised that Crockett of all people was going down this road as well. " We want to find the truth" was his goal and not the money.
Well, perhaps he has????
I personally thought that the plaintiffs were chasing the $$ by sueing Boeing. Afterall, those who have had intimate knowledge of this tragedy will say that pilot suicide was the most likely cause.
I was surprised that Crockett of all people was going down this road as well. " We want to find the truth" was his goal and not the money.
Well, perhaps he has????
Last edited by Capt. Erebus; 22nd Sep 2003 at 00:39.
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Capt Erebus
Not quite sure what you are trying to say..
My goal remains as "wanting the truth" and I say that for all those who lost somebody on Silk Air 185...
Not quite sure what you are trying to say..
My goal remains as "wanting the truth" and I say that for all those who lost somebody on Silk Air 185...
Last edited by Crockett; 24th Sep 2003 at 08:56.
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trium16
You cannot be serious! Any reasonable person looking at the evidence (and I do not include the Singapore authorities in that category) could come to no other conclusion than that the most likely cause of this accident was a series of conscious and deliberate acts by the Captain. Due to his own personal circumstances and history he was an accident waiting to happen, but this was not recognised and acted upon by his superiors. Consequently, on a routine flight he disabled the Flight Data Recorder, followed by the First Officer and then crashed the aircraft into the ground. You can have all the whitewashes you want, but that is the truth and any sensible person looking at the evidence can see it is the truth.
The sad reality of Eastern culture is that face-saving is everything, and nowhere has that been more clearly demonstrated than in this case. I am the first person to recognise the faults of the west, which are many, and do not say these things as racist comments. Our Eastern colleagues, however, have to recognise this unacceptable trait in terms of safe aviation practice and tackle it head on. Not very PC I know but there you have it!
You cannot be serious! Any reasonable person looking at the evidence (and I do not include the Singapore authorities in that category) could come to no other conclusion than that the most likely cause of this accident was a series of conscious and deliberate acts by the Captain. Due to his own personal circumstances and history he was an accident waiting to happen, but this was not recognised and acted upon by his superiors. Consequently, on a routine flight he disabled the Flight Data Recorder, followed by the First Officer and then crashed the aircraft into the ground. You can have all the whitewashes you want, but that is the truth and any sensible person looking at the evidence can see it is the truth.
The sad reality of Eastern culture is that face-saving is everything, and nowhere has that been more clearly demonstrated than in this case. I am the first person to recognise the faults of the west, which are many, and do not say these things as racist comments. Our Eastern colleagues, however, have to recognise this unacceptable trait in terms of safe aviation practice and tackle it head on. Not very PC I know but there you have it!
Can anyone confirm that the law suits against Boeing regarding the SilkAir 1997 B737 crash have been settled out of court?
If so, what message does this send to the aviation community and the travelling public in general?
If so, what message does this send to the aviation community and the travelling public in general?
Rehashing the alleged causal factors here does not address the above questions.
IMO, the aviation community has nothing to learn from trying to interpret legal manuevering not in full view of the public.
Typically law suits are filed against deep pockets in the hopes of getting better compensation for harm than available from the first party (the carrier)
Out-of-court settlements consider the both the costs and risks associated with protracted legal debates. Often the risk is one of image or even of exposing information of potential competitive disadvantage rather than an admitance of culpable negligence.
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Crockett: Can you confirm what has happened PLEASE!
AS far as Boeing is concerned paying out $100 million or whatever, may be better than upsetting their key customer who they are trying to sell 777-200LRs, 777-300ERs, 7E7s not to mention 747-400XX. It may be that Boeing and SQ have done a deal to split the cost 50/50.
GT
AS far as Boeing is concerned paying out $100 million or whatever, may be better than upsetting their key customer who they are trying to sell 777-200LRs, 777-300ERs, 7E7s not to mention 747-400XX. It may be that Boeing and SQ have done a deal to split the cost 50/50.
GT
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Trium 16:
I think you need to broaden your readership beyond the NTSC report before you post naive statements. By the way, you mentioned the 'commander' not I.
Crockett:
What I'm trying to say is this. Your initial posts 3-4 years ago were all for pilot suicide. Then they gradually became wishy washy "maybe it wasn't" stuff.
Then, your comment on 11th June this year...
Further to this thread you highlighted a Singapore newspaper report that the last 6 min of the DFDR was readable and that a rudder deflection had been recorded. Then "maybe it was the aerodynamic imbalances" that our friend WRT was prattling on about a few months ago. Whilst all this was going on, you and a few others were sueing Boeing for an aircraft malfunction (rudder I guess).
This is fine if it's all part of the master plan to get some one to say something that will prove once and for all what happened in this tragedy. Maybe that's what you need to do????
But what transperency is their if it's settled out of court????
Lomapaseo:
Thank you for trying to redirect this post back to my original questions. I appreciate your comments.
Norman SF:
Couldn't agree more. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.
GT:
I hope Crockett replies back to you on this forum for all of us to see.
I think you need to broaden your readership beyond the NTSC report before you post naive statements. By the way, you mentioned the 'commander' not I.
Crockett:
What I'm trying to say is this. Your initial posts 3-4 years ago were all for pilot suicide. Then they gradually became wishy washy "maybe it wasn't" stuff.
Then, your comment on 11th June this year...
As for the fiction... Boeing...there argument or cause for the accident is Pilot Suicide... Whilst Capt Tsu may have had some problems..They were not as bad as has been made out and it is far too simple an explanation... Guess the boys at Boeing and the lawyers representing them will say it is a "Cultural Thing " !!!... They would be very mistaken to use this arguement in a court of law in the USA..
Further to this thread you highlighted a Singapore newspaper report that the last 6 min of the DFDR was readable and that a rudder deflection had been recorded. Then "maybe it was the aerodynamic imbalances" that our friend WRT was prattling on about a few months ago. Whilst all this was going on, you and a few others were sueing Boeing for an aircraft malfunction (rudder I guess).
This is fine if it's all part of the master plan to get some one to say something that will prove once and for all what happened in this tragedy. Maybe that's what you need to do????
But what transperency is their if it's settled out of court????
Lomapaseo:
Thank you for trying to redirect this post back to my original questions. I appreciate your comments.
Norman SF:
Couldn't agree more. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.
GT:
I hope Crockett replies back to you on this forum for all of us to see.
Last edited by Capt. Erebus; 26th Sep 2003 at 04:59.
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Capt Erebus
You know who I am, I do not who you are... Other than going by the name of some mountain that an aircraft flew into some years ago if I remember correctly..
My motives behind all my postings over the years have been to keep the subject of Silk Air MI 185 alive until all the facts were made known public. And if you know me well enough, you will also know that I have done and said a lot of other things outside of this forum to further the cause of finding the truth and ultimately, albeit within my limited sphere of influence, promote aviation safety. This has taken a lot of my time and well earnt pennies... I do not regret this, it has been worth it.
The reality is that the truth may never be known... The truth is that we were not there... The evidence is all a matter of probabilities.....whichever way you look at it.. I have over the years listened to and respected all opinions, including your own opinions for I am not an expert on the subject...
If you would like to discuss this more, tell us who you are and why your interest in Silk Air 185, then perhaps Capt Erebus, I have more to divulge...Thank you for your obvious interest in Silk Air 185.
Six years on and still counting........
Regards to all..
You know who I am, I do not who you are... Other than going by the name of some mountain that an aircraft flew into some years ago if I remember correctly..
My motives behind all my postings over the years have been to keep the subject of Silk Air MI 185 alive until all the facts were made known public. And if you know me well enough, you will also know that I have done and said a lot of other things outside of this forum to further the cause of finding the truth and ultimately, albeit within my limited sphere of influence, promote aviation safety. This has taken a lot of my time and well earnt pennies... I do not regret this, it has been worth it.
The reality is that the truth may never be known... The truth is that we were not there... The evidence is all a matter of probabilities.....whichever way you look at it.. I have over the years listened to and respected all opinions, including your own opinions for I am not an expert on the subject...
If you would like to discuss this more, tell us who you are and why your interest in Silk Air 185, then perhaps Capt Erebus, I have more to divulge...Thank you for your obvious interest in Silk Air 185.
Six years on and still counting........
Regards to all..
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Silk Air
Not an expert here, however as i see it there seems to be convincing evidence that the captain(with a very chequered past) knew more about what was going to happen in the final moments of the flight than the FO.
If it was an uncommanded rudder deflection, the altitude they were at (>FL300) would have given them more time to attempt to recover in comparison with the other two rd incidents:
Colorado Springs at <1000ft
Pittsburg at 6000ft.
Just a thought.
If it was an uncommanded rudder deflection, the altitude they were at (>FL300) would have given them more time to attempt to recover in comparison with the other two rd incidents:
Colorado Springs at <1000ft
Pittsburg at 6000ft.
Just a thought.
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Crockett:
I really don't think divulging my identity is going to interest anybody. I simply had a good friend onboard MI 185, and hence have an "above average" interest in the subject.
But I would like to know from you, as was my original reason for starting this thread, whether you and others have settled out of court with Boeing et al.
It's as simple as that...so far you have avoided the question.
I really don't think divulging my identity is going to interest anybody. I simply had a good friend onboard MI 185, and hence have an "above average" interest in the subject.
But I would like to know from you, as was my original reason for starting this thread, whether you and others have settled out of court with Boeing et al.
It's as simple as that...so far you have avoided the question.
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Seems that way to me.
What gets me is when Crockett says...
So why settle out of court? Has the truth surfaced? Will he share this with everyone so that we can all learn from this disaster?
Afterall, this has been the corner stone of all of Crocketts posts...
What gets me is when Crockett says...
The reality is that the truth may never be known... The truth is that we were not there... The evidence is all a matter of probabilities.....whichever way you look at it.
So why settle out of court? Has the truth surfaced? Will he share this with everyone so that we can all learn from this disaster?
Afterall, this has been the corner stone of all of Crocketts posts...
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David (Crockett) you may not know who Capt Erebus is but you know me, as does everyone else. So perhaps you could answer my question. I think you owe all of us, particularly me an explanation of what has happened and WHY!!
Best
Geoffrey Thomas
By the way Erebus isn't just some mountain that a plane flew into. It is in fact a volcano and the sight of one of the most tragic air crashes of the modern era. The New Zealand government took over 20 years to accept the Royal Commissioner, The Honourable Peter Mahon’s ( Judge of the High Court of New Zealand) report that was made famous by the quote.......
" No judicial officer ever wishes to be compelled to say that he has listened to evidence that is false........In this case the palpably false sections of evidence which I heard could not have been the result of mistake or faulty recollection. They originated, I am compelled to say, in a pre-determined plan of deception. They were very clearly part of an attempt to conceal a series of disastrous administrative blunders and so, in regard to the particular items of evidence to which I have referred, I am forced reluctantly to say that I had to listen to an orchestrated litany of lies."
His report was not accepted at the time and tragically the persecution that the judge was forced to endure from the government because of his outspoken comments caused his premature death. Over twenty years later, the NZ Government, to its credit accepted the report and described it as one of the finest pieces of work in aircraft accident investigation.
Best
Geoffrey Thomas
By the way Erebus isn't just some mountain that a plane flew into. It is in fact a volcano and the sight of one of the most tragic air crashes of the modern era. The New Zealand government took over 20 years to accept the Royal Commissioner, The Honourable Peter Mahon’s ( Judge of the High Court of New Zealand) report that was made famous by the quote.......
" No judicial officer ever wishes to be compelled to say that he has listened to evidence that is false........In this case the palpably false sections of evidence which I heard could not have been the result of mistake or faulty recollection. They originated, I am compelled to say, in a pre-determined plan of deception. They were very clearly part of an attempt to conceal a series of disastrous administrative blunders and so, in regard to the particular items of evidence to which I have referred, I am forced reluctantly to say that I had to listen to an orchestrated litany of lies."
His report was not accepted at the time and tragically the persecution that the judge was forced to endure from the government because of his outspoken comments caused his premature death. Over twenty years later, the NZ Government, to its credit accepted the report and described it as one of the finest pieces of work in aircraft accident investigation.
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Geoffrey Thomas
I totally agree with your comments. Mahon cleared Collins, and quite rightly. All in the aviation community should have total and utter respect for this guy. Although I have never been to NZ, it seems that Erebus is deeply embedded into the psyche of Kiwis.
Capt. Erebus
I apologize if I caused offence. Not intended. And yes, you are quite correct, I mentioned "commander", thus, as you may suspect, perhaps that says a lot.
cheers
I totally agree with your comments. Mahon cleared Collins, and quite rightly. All in the aviation community should have total and utter respect for this guy. Although I have never been to NZ, it seems that Erebus is deeply embedded into the psyche of Kiwis.
Capt. Erebus
I apologize if I caused offence. Not intended. And yes, you are quite correct, I mentioned "commander", thus, as you may suspect, perhaps that says a lot.
cheers
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Apologies for not responding sooner..Been travelling, been working...
Capt Erebus... I cannot respond to your insinuations nor will I be able to comment on this forum.. Like I said I respect your opinions... thank you for your interest in Silk Air 185. You are not aware of all the details, I am.
It was a tragedy that will never be forgotten..
Geoffrey, my apologies if my reference to Mount Erebus sounded simplistic and flippant.. I am aware of the history.. Another terrible tragedy and another cover up..which I hope will not Be repeated... Sad to say that it is inevitable that it will however on future occasions.. I may have sounded flippant in my comments, it was not intended.
Geoffrey, you have my e mail address...
Capt Erebus... I cannot respond to your insinuations nor will I be able to comment on this forum.. Like I said I respect your opinions... thank you for your interest in Silk Air 185. You are not aware of all the details, I am.
It was a tragedy that will never be forgotten..
Geoffrey, my apologies if my reference to Mount Erebus sounded simplistic and flippant.. I am aware of the history.. Another terrible tragedy and another cover up..which I hope will not Be repeated... Sad to say that it is inevitable that it will however on future occasions.. I may have sounded flippant in my comments, it was not intended.
Geoffrey, you have my e mail address...
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"thank you for your interest in Silk Air 185"
Jeez, are you trying to piss this guy off?
"Thanks for your interest in Silk Air 185?"
You make it sound as if it's all your grief!
I don' think you're in a position to thank anyone for their "interest" Sunshine. This was an accident that affected many people, not just you.
You selfish ass.
Jeez, are you trying to piss this guy off?
"Thanks for your interest in Silk Air 185?"
You make it sound as if it's all your grief!
I don' think you're in a position to thank anyone for their "interest" Sunshine. This was an accident that affected many people, not just you.
You selfish ass.
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Life as a Journey
Yes you're right, this accident affected many. My friend meant alot to me...
By the way "Thank you for your interest in SilkAir 185"
( I don't know why Crockett keeps saying that
)
Trium 16
No worries. No offence taken. I just think that the NTSC report left alot to be desired...
GT
How right you are...especially the "orchestrated litany of lies" bit.
Crockett
You say...
Maybe I have over stepped the mark...I wasn't meaning to insinuate anything.
But if you are aware of all the details as you say, then this question should be easy...
[PHP]Have you settled out of court with Boeing et al?
A. Yes
B. No[/PHP]
Yes you're right, this accident affected many. My friend meant alot to me...
By the way "Thank you for your interest in SilkAir 185"
( I don't know why Crockett keeps saying that
)Trium 16
No worries. No offence taken. I just think that the NTSC report left alot to be desired...
GT
How right you are...especially the "orchestrated litany of lies" bit.
Crockett
You say...
I cannot respond to your insinuations nor will I be able to comment on this forum.. Like I said I respect your opinions... thank you for your interest in Silk Air 185. You are not aware of all the details, I am.
But if you are aware of all the details as you say, then this question should be easy...
[PHP]Have you settled out of court with Boeing et al?
A. Yes
B. No[/PHP]
Last edited by Capt. Erebus; 4th Oct 2003 at 04:39.
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Crockett:
You make me sick. All this talk about finding the truth. You're no different than the sad individuals we know so well in SilkAir who have covered up this whole sordid affair.
Your silence on this tells me you've sold yourself out....and 100+ others....
You make me sick. All this talk about finding the truth. You're no different than the sad individuals we know so well in SilkAir who have covered up this whole sordid affair.
Your silence on this tells me you've sold yourself out....and 100+ others....
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>>>>the sad individuals we know so well in SilkAir who have covered up this whole sordid affair.
If those sad ( or should we say SICK ) individuals had any concience, I wonder if they can ever sleep peacefully!!?
If those sad ( or should we say SICK ) individuals had any concience, I wonder if they can ever sleep peacefully!!?
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Tripper,
Those "sad individuals" do not have any consciences, collectively or individually. I refer to all those at SIN Inc who orchestrated (by concealing some very pertinent facts for a considerable period after the crash... viz until February 1998...) the investigation and the paid puppet who "officially" presented the report. The NTSB, in its official comments, exposed the "local report" for the pathetic attempt at a finding that it was and remains.
With regard to the plaintiffs' withdrawal from the court case against Boeing, it has been rumoured that Singapore Aviation & General Insurance had withdrawn some time ago. Why? Anyone's guess but, just perhaps, they may suddenly have developed jittery knees at the possibility that they may cop a thrashing and, shock / horror, the truth might actually find its way into the international arena, one in which SIN Inc can not exercise any media control.
One truth that would certainly have emerged is that there was absolutely nothing wrong with 9V-TRF and even that fact would have made them feel very exposed. With the aircraft eliminated as a cause of the crash, other factors such as pilot actions would have to have been considered! So sorry, can not lah!
Those "sad individuals" do not have any consciences, collectively or individually. I refer to all those at SIN Inc who orchestrated (by concealing some very pertinent facts for a considerable period after the crash... viz until February 1998...) the investigation and the paid puppet who "officially" presented the report. The NTSB, in its official comments, exposed the "local report" for the pathetic attempt at a finding that it was and remains.
With regard to the plaintiffs' withdrawal from the court case against Boeing, it has been rumoured that Singapore Aviation & General Insurance had withdrawn some time ago. Why? Anyone's guess but, just perhaps, they may suddenly have developed jittery knees at the possibility that they may cop a thrashing and, shock / horror, the truth might actually find its way into the international arena, one in which SIN Inc can not exercise any media control.
One truth that would certainly have emerged is that there was absolutely nothing wrong with 9V-TRF and even that fact would have made them feel very exposed. With the aircraft eliminated as a cause of the crash, other factors such as pilot actions would have to have been considered! So sorry, can not lah!