Aer Lingus to recruit Irish Nationals only
Guest
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AN EMPHATIC NO THEY ARE NOT !!
Yes like any company anywhere in the world there are a few "oddballs" who don't like the colour of your hair,skin, nationality, sexuality,the paper you read etc etc but out of 600+ pilots you could count them on one hand or less ? and they are not so stupid so as to advertise. Lets face it AL is now so PC, that you now get fired for touching on the hand and touching the shoulder because its an invasion of personal space.
CS Please also add
Canadian
South African
PS it is bloody expensive but thats an economic choice that effects everybody here.
[This message has been edited by flybystring (because I didn't read CS's list properly)
[This message has been edited by flybystring (edited 05 June 2001).]
Yes like any company anywhere in the world there are a few "oddballs" who don't like the colour of your hair,skin, nationality, sexuality,the paper you read etc etc but out of 600+ pilots you could count them on one hand or less ? and they are not so stupid so as to advertise. Lets face it AL is now so PC, that you now get fired for touching on the hand and touching the shoulder because its an invasion of personal space.
CS Please also add
Canadian
South African
PS it is bloody expensive but thats an economic choice that effects everybody here.
[This message has been edited by flybystring (because I didn't read CS's list properly)
[This message has been edited by flybystring (edited 05 June 2001).]
Guest
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When TLA went bust ALT had already ended their DEP recruitment and were exclusively hiring for the cadet scheme.
And as a matter of interest, before TLA rolled over, at least a half dozen guys left them to join ALT...while the DEP jobs were still there. Still happily employed.
Actually, the funny thing about this whole thread is how completely arse about face it is. ALT loves to hire Irish boys and girls as cadets because, historically, the DEPs and non-nationals tend to leave. Not good for your training costs. Also not good because you have to then increase the pay to keep the others from doing same!
Better to pay locals crap money (as happened for years) in the knowledge they'd never leave, even if you dumped on them from a height.
This is yet another reason why every ALT pilot should (and I believe does) support the hiring of non-nationals, as well as our own...they provide a healthy balance, and keep the management on their toes.
Ultimately therefore this thread is b###ox (yet another one) because ALT, just like every other company, hires the best it can get for the job, and operates it's hiring policys to suit it's needs...within the law.
If anything, ALT has an excess of this kind of PC practice.
And as a matter of interest, before TLA rolled over, at least a half dozen guys left them to join ALT...while the DEP jobs were still there. Still happily employed.
Actually, the funny thing about this whole thread is how completely arse about face it is. ALT loves to hire Irish boys and girls as cadets because, historically, the DEPs and non-nationals tend to leave. Not good for your training costs. Also not good because you have to then increase the pay to keep the others from doing same!
Better to pay locals crap money (as happened for years) in the knowledge they'd never leave, even if you dumped on them from a height.
This is yet another reason why every ALT pilot should (and I believe does) support the hiring of non-nationals, as well as our own...they provide a healthy balance, and keep the management on their toes.
Ultimately therefore this thread is b###ox (yet another one) because ALT, just like every other company, hires the best it can get for the job, and operates it's hiring policys to suit it's needs...within the law.
If anything, ALT has an excess of this kind of PC practice.
Guest
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"Bramble there is by no means a pilot shortage in EI, they dont even have enough spaces for returning cadets."
Yet the 330 crews seem over worked.However we have too many 737 f/o's. I got this from chatting to the crews.It seems to me a shortage of experience rather than bodies,but then again I am just a tea bag squeezer!!!So feel free to correct me
Yet the 330 crews seem over worked.However we have too many 737 f/o's. I got this from chatting to the crews.It seems to me a shortage of experience rather than bodies,but then again I am just a tea bag squeezer!!!So feel free to correct me
Guest
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Bow5, your comment about American carriers saying they hire only US nationals is completely wrong.
I, together with many other Brits, Irish, Latin Americans, Ozzies et al work for a US carrier and I am sure that the same is true of all the other US airlines.
US Immigration, the INS, specifies visa issues, all the US carriers ask is that you have the right to live and work in the USA, ie naturalised citizen, green card or some other kind of visa permitting you to be here legally.
I, together with many other Brits, Irish, Latin Americans, Ozzies et al work for a US carrier and I am sure that the same is true of all the other US airlines.
US Immigration, the INS, specifies visa issues, all the US carriers ask is that you have the right to live and work in the USA, ie naturalised citizen, green card or some other kind of visa permitting you to be here legally.
Guest
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Yeah OK. I might have generalised a bit there 
I was taking what I had seen on the AA website about sponsorship being only open to US citizens as read across the industry. Am I right in thinking though that you have to have the right to live and work in the US to work for a US carrier?
I was taking what I had seen on the AA website about sponsorship being only open to US citizens as read across the industry. Am I right in thinking though that you have to have the right to live and work in the US to work for a US carrier?
Guest
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Guys and Girls,
This thread is losing itself in the unfortunately inaccurate picture some of you are painting. AL have many non-nationals operating for them at the moment. In Operations it is now uncommon to hear Irish accents!! Of a recent class of Cadets 8 of the 10 were British!! How is that racist? There are also French Citizens, Australians, New Zealanders, Scandinavians and the good old Americans. So please......... Meanwhile the company is in dire straits due to the management of the heap! Many years ago pilots there gave back a scale on their salary to help the company out. Where has that left them now? If AA/BA or BMI were to buy the airline ,that would at least inject a bit of professionalism into the only area lacking it.....that is......the management would change! Thank God! Bring on BMI! We already have the American routes set up for you AND you would have no major competitor on the DUB-LHR route....Happy Days!
Meanwhile IMPACT the trade union representing pilots there had had to ask them not to issue a statement supporting Michael Foley!! That speaks volumes and tells all of you what the present staff think of B. Cahill....the man who is singlehandedly bringing the airline down!
This thread is losing itself in the unfortunately inaccurate picture some of you are painting. AL have many non-nationals operating for them at the moment. In Operations it is now uncommon to hear Irish accents!! Of a recent class of Cadets 8 of the 10 were British!! How is that racist? There are also French Citizens, Australians, New Zealanders, Scandinavians and the good old Americans. So please......... Meanwhile the company is in dire straits due to the management of the heap! Many years ago pilots there gave back a scale on their salary to help the company out. Where has that left them now? If AA/BA or BMI were to buy the airline ,that would at least inject a bit of professionalism into the only area lacking it.....that is......the management would change! Thank God! Bring on BMI! We already have the American routes set up for you AND you would have no major competitor on the DUB-LHR route....Happy Days!
Meanwhile IMPACT the trade union representing pilots there had had to ask them not to issue a statement supporting Michael Foley!! That speaks volumes and tells all of you what the present staff think of B. Cahill....the man who is singlehandedly bringing the airline down!
Guest
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There seems to be alot of people using TLA's(three letter abreviations).
Capt S
since you are a very informed ALT man perhaps you could clarify why DEP's are such a liability to ALT when CADETS can just as easily jump ship once they have the required number of hours that xyz airline is looking for. Does ALT think that the fact that they have spent 1 1/2yrs training them that the cadets will stay any longer than a DEP???
Could never figure that one out....perhaps you could shed some light on this??
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Capt S
one last comment, i don't think i should be accused of racism because i think i should be hired because i'm a PADDY,.....no not at all,....i thought i should be hired because at the time(10yrs ago) i had 50hrs and demonstrated that i was prepared to become a pilot and being IRISH i want to fly for the NATIONAL carrier.....how silly i was back then......to think that they'd be remotely interested in taking somebody on from their own back yard.....
Yeah dog eat dog.....ALT want the best they can......but still i thought that they'd look to their own first and failing that then look abroad.
I know of some guys who worked with ALT got their CPL's and then were not hired by ALT even though they had a proven track history with the company.....if they don't take guys from within the company what chance did i ever have....
one last comment, i don't think i should be accused of racism because i think i should be hired because i'm a PADDY,.....no not at all,....i thought i should be hired because at the time(10yrs ago) i had 50hrs and demonstrated that i was prepared to become a pilot and being IRISH i want to fly for the NATIONAL carrier.....how silly i was back then......to think that they'd be remotely interested in taking somebody on from their own back yard.....
Yeah dog eat dog.....ALT want the best they can......but still i thought that they'd look to their own first and failing that then look abroad.
I know of some guys who worked with ALT got their CPL's and then were not hired by ALT even though they had a proven track history with the company.....if they don't take guys from within the company what chance did i ever have....
Guest
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Ontheairwaves, it's nice to have a rational exchange with you for once.
In spite of the fact that you evidently hold it against the pilots of Aer Lingus (inc. myself) that they didn't hire you...it has absolutely nothing to do with me or the average pilot.
There are managers in the company who are charged with that responsibility. Some of those managers are indeed also pilots...but let's just say that they are managers first, and pilots second!
I can't answer your question about the selection process. I've never been involved. I do however know that it is truly the case that 'Cadets don't leave' but DEP's do. I can't give you statistics, but out of the group that have left in the last twenty years or so I reckon around 5% were cadets...the rest were DEPs. Exactly what mechanism is at work I don't know. The cadets are every bit as marketable (maybe more so) than the DEPs, yet they tend to stay. I think it's probably the 'get 'em young and you have 'em for life' syndrome.
On the subject of your second post. I myself know many Irish guys/girls who put all their money and dedication into getting a licence, hoping to get into ALT, only to be rejected. With some you might be able to identify some kind of reason for it, but with the majority I could see absolutely none. Yet still they got knocked back. Again, don't ask me why. Maybe poor interview technique...who knows. Interestingly, those who didn't get into ALT often weren't accepted by FR either...
BTW, I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with you (so don't fly off the handle). Look, the same thing happens everywhere! BA don't feel obliged to hire every Brit who gets a licence, and yet they have hired Paddies.
Anyhow, given your dislike of the company I can't understand your desire to be a part of it. They probably did you a huge favour by not taking you. Would you really want to be involved in the current mess? You're better out of it, believe me.
In spite of the fact that you evidently hold it against the pilots of Aer Lingus (inc. myself) that they didn't hire you...it has absolutely nothing to do with me or the average pilot.
There are managers in the company who are charged with that responsibility. Some of those managers are indeed also pilots...but let's just say that they are managers first, and pilots second!
I can't answer your question about the selection process. I've never been involved. I do however know that it is truly the case that 'Cadets don't leave' but DEP's do. I can't give you statistics, but out of the group that have left in the last twenty years or so I reckon around 5% were cadets...the rest were DEPs. Exactly what mechanism is at work I don't know. The cadets are every bit as marketable (maybe more so) than the DEPs, yet they tend to stay. I think it's probably the 'get 'em young and you have 'em for life' syndrome.
On the subject of your second post. I myself know many Irish guys/girls who put all their money and dedication into getting a licence, hoping to get into ALT, only to be rejected. With some you might be able to identify some kind of reason for it, but with the majority I could see absolutely none. Yet still they got knocked back. Again, don't ask me why. Maybe poor interview technique...who knows. Interestingly, those who didn't get into ALT often weren't accepted by FR either...
BTW, I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with you (so don't fly off the handle). Look, the same thing happens everywhere! BA don't feel obliged to hire every Brit who gets a licence, and yet they have hired Paddies.
Anyhow, given your dislike of the company I can't understand your desire to be a part of it. They probably did you a huge favour by not taking you. Would you really want to be involved in the current mess? You're better out of it, believe me.
Guest
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As a foreigner working for Aer Lingus, I can honestly say that I've never experienced any form of "racism" whatsoever. In fact I relish the opportunity, can't wait for a bit of sporting fun!
All the people I've met with in EI have been top quality, some great characters, and a joy to work with.
Get the job done to a high standard, have a laugh, earn the respect of fellow employees and it's a great place to work, mind you just don't touch anyone's wrist, Irish girls just aren't like that you know! Must start going down Tomangoes more often!
A few people commenting on this site with chips on their shoulders and axes to grind seem to have no idea what they are talking about. Irelands in the EU (and done exceedingly well out of it too), therefore can not discriminate over EU nationals.
We all know that we work in the most international of all industries, and being a Pilot is one of the most worldwide marketable careers. Irish guys who can't get in EI should look elsewhere just like all the foreigners in EI who had to move here, or would Mammy not like that??!! Whoop whooop Banter Alert!
Most people know that Airline selection is really a Lotto, people get refused Aer Arran one day, and get in BA the next, it's just down to the applicant and the selectors on the day.
Next few months will be very interesting though for EI, don't fancy working in Head Office though!!
<small>[ 13 March 2002, 00:13: Message edited by: Silver Tongued Cavalier ]</small>
All the people I've met with in EI have been top quality, some great characters, and a joy to work with.
Get the job done to a high standard, have a laugh, earn the respect of fellow employees and it's a great place to work, mind you just don't touch anyone's wrist, Irish girls just aren't like that you know! Must start going down Tomangoes more often!
A few people commenting on this site with chips on their shoulders and axes to grind seem to have no idea what they are talking about. Irelands in the EU (and done exceedingly well out of it too), therefore can not discriminate over EU nationals.
We all know that we work in the most international of all industries, and being a Pilot is one of the most worldwide marketable careers. Irish guys who can't get in EI should look elsewhere just like all the foreigners in EI who had to move here, or would Mammy not like that??!! Whoop whooop Banter Alert!
Most people know that Airline selection is really a Lotto, people get refused Aer Arran one day, and get in BA the next, it's just down to the applicant and the selectors on the day.
Next few months will be very interesting though for EI, don't fancy working in Head Office though!!
<small>[ 13 March 2002, 00:13: Message edited by: Silver Tongued Cavalier ]</small>
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Capt S
yes i guess you are right about the interviewers.....i just wanted when i was younger to be flying the flag....but had to go further afield.....yes they probably DID me a favour....but when i'm parked in JFK and cast an eye across at the Shamrock, one can't but think of what might have been.....
yes i guess you are right about the interviewers.....i just wanted when i was younger to be flying the flag....but had to go further afield.....yes they probably DID me a favour....but when i'm parked in JFK and cast an eye across at the Shamrock, one can't but think of what might have been.....
Guest
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Simple argument is they cannot legally only hire Irish Nationals.
Any EU National is allowed to apply for the job. If necessary Aer Lingus would have to prove why they prefered say an Irish Pilot to a For example British Pilot.
In all honesty I think Aer Lingus would recruit anyone that they felt would be an asset to the company, regardless of Nationality.
Sagey
Any EU National is allowed to apply for the job. If necessary Aer Lingus would have to prove why they prefered say an Irish Pilot to a For example British Pilot.
In all honesty I think Aer Lingus would recruit anyone that they felt would be an asset to the company, regardless of Nationality.
Sagey
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Ontheair,
Cadets sign a seven (7) year bond, DEP only sign a three year bond. Those 4 years in between are the difference between "Should I buy a house or rent?"
Once you've bought, you're settled in! Majority of DEP's are renting, cadets live at home for 3-4 years saving up for that first downpayment
OK, so I might be generalizing a bit, but hey?
Cadets sign a seven (7) year bond, DEP only sign a three year bond. Those 4 years in between are the difference between "Should I buy a house or rent?"
Once you've bought, you're settled in! Majority of DEP's are renting, cadets live at home for 3-4 years saving up for that first downpayment
OK, so I might be generalizing a bit, but hey?
Guest
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Bearcat I don't getcha.
Just statin' facts...take it or leave it.
I'm not going to get into a flame war with you over this, because myself and several others have, I think, clearly refuted the allegations which were cheap and nasty to say the least.
It just seems rather weak of you to resort to yet another personal attack in desparation.
Last refuge of the man without an argument to make, they say.
This thread is patently exhausted, and the subject is now closed as far as I'm concerned.
It badly needs a padlock Mr.Moderator.
[This message has been edited by CaptSensible (edited 07 June 2001).]
Just statin' facts...take it or leave it.
I'm not going to get into a flame war with you over this, because myself and several others have, I think, clearly refuted the allegations which were cheap and nasty to say the least.
It just seems rather weak of you to resort to yet another personal attack in desparation.
Last refuge of the man without an argument to make, they say.
This thread is patently exhausted, and the subject is now closed as far as I'm concerned.
It badly needs a padlock Mr.Moderator.
[This message has been edited by CaptSensible (edited 07 June 2001).]
Guest
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Sensible,
I have no cross to bear, all I was saying jeez you certainly wear your heart on your sleeve. Funny I never made any slanderous remarks but jog my memory but was'nt it your goodself that told me to go back to my north side abode? Besta luck, close the thread and happy flying
I have no cross to bear, all I was saying jeez you certainly wear your heart on your sleeve. Funny I never made any slanderous remarks but jog my memory but was'nt it your goodself that told me to go back to my north side abode? Besta luck, close the thread and happy flying
