Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

SWISS: pilot fired for criticism

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

SWISS: pilot fired for criticism

Old 29th Aug 2003, 07:39
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SWISS: pilot fired for criticism

On the very same day Swiss announced it has to cut down on its network due to the lack of pilots (after firing 526 of themů) and dismissed a pilot of the regional fleet, because of the strong criticism he voiced within the Swiss Pilots Association.

It is not yet clear whether the criticism were voiced at the extraodinary general meeting of the Swiss Pilots Association on August 8th, a meeting attended by the Swiss Board member Walter Bosch, or if his dismissal refers to internal papers of the Pilots Union. The later would mean that Swiss is spying on its pilots.

However, the dismissal looks to many as being illegal, since no one is supposed to be fired for criticism expressed within the frame of Union's activities.
ettore is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2003, 23:36
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mid Atlantic
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ettore....you say it's illegal?
Not only that, it is outrageous!

If what you say is true, and your 'union' is willing to stand by and watch then it has no right to call itself a union.
Idunno is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2003, 23:52
  #3 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Co-Pilot
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: The Sky
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So we can't raise our concerns anymore by the looks of it for the fear of getting fired!
AIRWAY is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 00:30
  #4 (permalink)  
pecs
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Character Damaging Statements

"The more things change, the more they stay the same"

Rumour has it that it was immediate termination for the "character damaging statements made in the FORUM of the Swiss Pilots Association", and directed at certain managers at SWISS. I gather the lawyers who are now involved, will be the real winners.

The Forum is an internal, union member only, and password accessed and registration required discussion forum on the internet at www.swisspilots.ch

It may not be the first time an airline pilot has criticised his/her management in a union forum, and probably won't be the last. But you have to remember this is a company called Swiss International Air Lines where management abuse and discrimination especially of ex-Crossair pilots is an art form and legally established fact.

Goodluck to the poor b*gger. It will be interesting to see if this nice bloke, loyal union member, and FOREIGNER is supported by his union.
 
Old 30th Aug 2003, 01:53
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
School mates?

I wonder if the Swiss managers went to the same school as Cathay managers?

Any peanuts involved?
Just curious.
zerozero is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 03:13
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down

Hmmm, reminds me of this thread.
Wanula Dreaming is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 05:45
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's really frightening. Did the management spied on the Pilot's forum or did a "yellow" member forward the thread to his boss, the very result is that anybody will now think twice before expressing his opinion on the forum. It's not only a case for lawyers, it's a case for anybody willing to defend the very fundamental right of expression.
Not to mention the fact that some remarks under the topic "safety" did in the past contribute to avoid further problems in an airline strucked by two deadly crashes in the past three years: will a self-censure forced on the pilots endanger more lifes at Swiss International Airlines?
ettore is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 08:42
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,899
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
There was a case with similarities at FedEx several years ago. A pilot's wife claimed she accidentally saw messages from Captain Claude Barnhart on a closed union forum. The messages were threatening to her husband in her opinion, she reported them to FedEx and "Barnie" was ordered to a psych eval. He initially agreed to see the shrink but later backed out and FedEx fired him. This was in the wake of criticism that FedEx didn't take a closer look at Auburn Calloway, the DC-10 hijacker after earlier incidents.

__________________________________________________

FedEx Letter Brings Libel Suit
by Jacqueline Marino

A FORMER FEDEX PILOT WHO WAS a vocal member of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), is suing members of the current union for allegedly libeling him in a letter to FedEx management.

In a February 16, 1996, letter sent to CEO Fred Smith and other FedEx executives, one union member's wife asserted that Claude Barnhart, a 22-year FedEx employee, was "unbalanced," "mentally unstable," and harbored "a deep-seated malevolence," among other charges.

"This thing about labeling someone crazy. This is why there's no way I can get another flying job," Barnhart says.

Along with the letter, Barnhart says the woman sent FedEx executives copies of his CompuServe messages from an online forum of ALPA, the former pilots' union. In the colorful Internet messages, Barnhart derides some of his fellow pilots as "scabs" who crossed the "invisible picket line" after receiving a directive not to fly under certain circumstances from the national ALPA. In court documents, FedEx says the Internet messages were legally obtained.

In a previous lawsuit filed against FedEx in U.S. District Court last spring, Barnhart asserts the company suspended him without pay for communicating such pro-union sentiments. FedEx later fired him, he says, for refusing to submit to a psychiatric exam. Last April, however, a medical doctor said Barnhart was physically and psychologically competent to fly commercial jets.

In October 1996, the independent FedEx Pilots Association (FPA) unseated ALPA as the pilots' collective bargaining organization. The national ALPA angered many pilots in 1995 when it printed negative advertisements about FedEx in some national newspapers.

On Monday, FPA president Michael Akin said the organization had not formally received Barnhart's complaint, which was filed in Circuit Court February 13th. But Akin says he considers Barnhart's accusations "frivolous and without merit."

Barnhart seeks restitution on four counts altogether, for invasion of privacy, defamation/libel, and two counts of breach of contract. He has asked for consequential and punitive damages and attorneys' fees in excess of $31 million.

The suit against FedEx is currently pending. Spokeswoman Darlene Faquin says the company has no further comment.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/backissu...e418/cr418.htm

_________________________________________________


See also: http://members.aol.com/BobKutchko/Un...de/page68.html


Captain Barnhart never got his job back, looks like he's got a Stearman for sale: http://www.aviatorsale.com/aix1576/
Airbubba is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 09:02
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some guys never come to fully realise that to bite the hand that feeds them is never a really smart idea....sometimes the hand bites back
411A is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 17:52
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: switzerland
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wasn 't DH by any chance?
moderatar is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 18:06
  #11 (permalink)  
pecs
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Not DH

No, a Saab2000 driver from Downunder who started a bit further back in 1999.
 
Old 30th Aug 2003, 20:11
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
411A....A good union has the biggest bite of all.
maxalt is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 21:55
  #13 (permalink)  
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Global village
Age: 54
Posts: 3,026
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Lightbulb

Talking about bighting the hand that feeds you, 411A, surely a prospective airline magnate such as yourself - btw, I see the original L1011/B727/B742 basing has switched from Hong Kong, to Indonesia, and now Subic Bay...anyway, I digress.
2,339 posts, 411A and still no Personal Title to assist Danny and his team in some small way.
There are users, and there are users.

Back to subject - he must have hit a raw nerve to have illicited that sort of knee-jerk reaction.
What was it he said?

A salary pays for services received, 411A - employers don't "give" things away, and their paying a salary doesn't guarantee employee loyalty.
That is earned by the way staff are treated.

Simply because you pay someone to do work, doesn't entitle you to their respect, nor mean that they have to like you.
Kaptin M is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2003, 23:27
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No, my good Kaptin, they don't have to like the company, but if they want to continue eating, perhaps is best to keep opinions to ones self.

Many guys have lost sight of the fact that it is generally better to fly the bus and go home...and move elsewhere if the green fields have suddenly turned brown on their 'home' turf.

Oh, and to digress...you still ain't got it right...'tis CRK, and always has been.
And no union guys accepted, that's for sure. Far too many problems with 'em.
411A is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2003, 00:00
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That, quite frankly, is cr@p CRM. Keeping opinions to yourself encourages poor prantice to continue, and will one day lead to you, 411A, killing yourself.

In an ideal world labour economics allows movement of your work. Not now in today's job market, and with seniority and pensions to consider, it is a fantasy for labour to do just that. Don't talk about what you don't understand - it makes our lives easier.

It is your BS that leads to threads becoming unreadable rubbish, and of no information to the casual user.

Shut it.


Back to the subject, I assume that Swiss labout laws are fairly comparable with EU allowing him to make an attempt to regain his job or compensation?
Lucifer is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2003, 00:12
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,759
Received 42 Likes on 18 Posts
Where exactly did you learn management 411A?

Many guys have lost sight of the fact that it is generally better to fly the bus and go home...and move elsewhere if the green fields have suddenly turned brown on their 'home' turf.
So zero employee input. That should work. I guess all that "Putting people first" is why Southwest, Jet blue and easyJet are such miserable failures.

Oh..but wait... they have real aircraft making real profits, not "Imminent" (for the last two years to my knowledge) operations of fantasy aircraft.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2003, 04:46
  #17 (permalink)  
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Global village
Age: 54
Posts: 3,026
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Arrow

From this topic on PPRuNe
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=100464
comes the following:-


Swiss airline defends faulty maps for pilots


A Swiss airline admitted yesterday that inaccurate navigation maps were being supplied to its pilots, but insisted that passenger safety was not compromised. "Pilots have computers on board for navigation and they can call air traffic control," said Dominik Werner, spokesman for airline Swiss.

He was reacting to reports on the faulty maps in the Swiss Sunday newspapers Le Matin Dimanche and SonntagsBlick. The two papers pointed out printing errors for radio frequencies and guidance signals, approach angles and landing altitudes.

Peter Nussbaumer, a federal air accident investigator, had concluded that navigation maps had a direct relation to aircraft safety.

The spokesman for Swiss said there was absolutely no danger to passengers as a result of discrepancies appearing on maps to some European destinations, adding that the airline had no plans to rectify the errors.


Now you pilots had better keep your opinions about (the Safety issue of this) to yourself, according to 411A, who says, ".......but if they want to continue eating, perhaps is best to keep opinions to ones self."

And on another matter, 411, "Oh, and to digress...you still ain't got it right...'tis CRK, and always has been."..CRK is Clark AB, at Subic Bay, Phillipines. You had previously stated that your fantasy was going to be Indonesia-based, where CKG, Cengkareng, is one of the major airports.
"And no union guys accepted, that's for sure. Far too many problems with 'em." IF your fantasy were ever to become reality, 411, it is people like you who make forming unions a NECESSITY to protect the employee!
Kaptin M is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2003, 05:13
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Kaptin M,

SFS, Subic Bay, Philippines
CRK, Clark (DMIA) Philippines

Looks like you were not paying attention in geography class.

Wiz & Lucifer,

Safety is one thing, company management style quite another.
The CX 49 found out first hand, and am not at all surprised that the outspoken critic at Swiss was from downunder...as they have plenty of experience sticking their foot in mouth.
The only thing missing were the peanuts...
411A is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2003, 06:24
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
411A, you really are a piece of work.

I could almost fathom your benighted mentality while you simply insist that those unwilling to toe the company line should just quietly leave. Let's face it, that's the kind of schoolyard logic you've demonstrated in other threads.

However to hold up the 49'ers as an example of 'best management practice' and 'what is in store' for anyone who dares open their mouth...well, you are the reason unions exist, and you are the reason why they will continue to do so.

I do hope you meet your match and get what you truly deserve in the Phillipines.
maxalt is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2003, 08:44
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Swiss Pilots Association's lawyer, Dr Stephan Suter is working on the file. SPA President Bieli rang some managers and talked over this matter with a Board Member. He reacted pretty pissed off - or pretended to - and promissed to look into this case.
I don't believe that any of the party is willing to go for another round of legal fight. No money left for lawsuits (on either sides), no time to waste before grounding the company.
ettore is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.