SWISS: pilot fired for criticism
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
I see the "edit" button has had a bit of a workout, 411A. For those who missed the original, non-professional act that 411A admitted to, here are a couple of the RELEVANT points around which this (subverted) discussion evolves,
"#2 engine on one aircraft would not develop rated thrust."
"After many complaints and no action.......they fixed the engine.".
411A is NOW trying to tell all, that the operation he carried out was just a normal, run-of-the-mill one, done with all of the correct performance charts, in which case it would have been no big deal.
Mendacity appears to perhaps be your best talent, 411A!
"#2 engine on one aircraft would not develop rated thrust."
"After many complaints and no action.......they fixed the engine.".
411A is NOW trying to tell all, that the operation he carried out was just a normal, run-of-the-mill one, done with all of the correct performance charts, in which case it would have been no big deal.
Mendacity appears to perhaps be your best talent, 411A!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread has been dragged far enough off course by you 411A.
The thread started with the report of a pilot being dismissed for 'voicing his criticism' of management. All the guff about Flex take-offs is just a distraction.
Your response was:
Is it your opinion that anyone who raises their voice to criticise bad management should to be fired for it, or just that they can expect to be fired because of it? I'm not totally clear on your angle.
There is plenty of history to show that sometimes employees need to speak out against corrupt and unscrupulous employers. There is also plenty of history about the kind of illegal behaviour some companies will engage in to cover their guilt when exposed. This goes as far as murder in some cases!
The aviation industry is no different. It has had its dirty stories too. In particular I'm thinking of the Mount Erebus accident where NZ Air management actually burgled the dead Captains home to retrieve documents that were unfavourable to the attempted cover up of their own culpability in that accident.
Keep speaking out folks...it's your bounden duty!
The thread started with the report of a pilot being dismissed for 'voicing his criticism' of management. All the guff about Flex take-offs is just a distraction.
Your response was:
Some guys never come to fully realise that to bite the hand that feeds them is never a really smart idea.
There is plenty of history to show that sometimes employees need to speak out against corrupt and unscrupulous employers. There is also plenty of history about the kind of illegal behaviour some companies will engage in to cover their guilt when exposed. This goes as far as murder in some cases!
The aviation industry is no different. It has had its dirty stories too. In particular I'm thinking of the Mount Erebus accident where NZ Air management actually burgled the dead Captains home to retrieve documents that were unfavourable to the attempted cover up of their own culpability in that accident.
Keep speaking out folks...it's your bounden duty!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sacked pilot back in the news, if not at work
After 4 months of silence, the Swiss pilot fired for posting his strong opinion about two Swiss managers in the supposingly closed and protected Swiss Pilots Association forum (therefore legally supposed to be a private sphere) is back in business, at least in the trade union's one, if not in a cockpit.
He just declared in the same forum that he is now running for the presidency of the Swiss Pilots Association. Sorry ladies, but that guy has guts, as shown below.
Better than my broken english, he few points extracted from his programm a pretty much telling.
Quote:
"Key points” for the duty period (until March 2006) and how these goals should be achieved
*I personally promise and undertake to ensure that not a single SPA member is deserted by the Board and treated with the same unprofessionalism, disrespect and contempt that I have been subjected to in the last 4 months by this current retiring Board. The new Board can do better, and in fact must do better if it is to retain the support and confidence of the membership. The survival of SWISS PILOTS Association is at stake in this election.
*I will welcome a diverse Board with a variety of different skills and attributes. I will promote "Board Resource Management” and Team Work in the SPA within and outside the Board. By example I will seek to impose a professional and disciplined approach, and unlike the current retiring Board, I will not be afraid to hold individual Board members to account for their repeated failings to represent member interests.
*Promote and achieve timely and transparent communication with membership.
*Greater membership consultation and democracy through better use of existing forums including SPA Website, information meetings, and plebiscite/referenda/polling of members if major strategy and policy changes are contemplated and proposed.
*Respect diversity and genuine and constructive debate and argument, welcome and encourage member input, and to provide the membership with all available and meaningful and costed options.
*Commitment to professional Board behaviour and to treat all SPA members equally and to hold no personal grudge against individual members unlike the practice of the current Board.
*To promote a safe and healthy working and flying environment by working forthrightly and constructively with Aeropers, SWISS Flight Safety, Training, Flight Operations, Maintenance, Cabin Crew etc. etc. and the BAZL etc.
*To improve the use and output of Commissions and to make their work and membership more open and transparent.
*Work constructively with, and for, a safety minded, law abiding, fair and nondiscriminatory SWISS management, and where necessary highlight and hold SWISS management to account, all for the betterment of SWISS and the jobs and future of SPA members. Strive for industrial peace and undertake to cultivate and maintain a positive image of SWISS.
*Enhance the working relationship and increase joint action with other SWISS unions such as Aeropers, Kapers and Gata etc. to protect and support the interests of SPA members.
*To fight against RACISM and unfair discrimination within SWISS in all its forms.
*To immediately join SWISSALPA, IFALPA, European Cockpit Association, and the Oneworld Cockpit Crew Coalition and gain the benefits of joining with our worldwide professional aviation colleagues in our common interests.
Unquote
Not bad for a guy who has been sacked from Swiss Airlines for simply telling is opinion (privately), and most probably because he simply is a foreigner, coming from a different culture than the Swiss one...
He just declared in the same forum that he is now running for the presidency of the Swiss Pilots Association. Sorry ladies, but that guy has guts, as shown below.
Better than my broken english, he few points extracted from his programm a pretty much telling.
Quote:
"Key points” for the duty period (until March 2006) and how these goals should be achieved
*I personally promise and undertake to ensure that not a single SPA member is deserted by the Board and treated with the same unprofessionalism, disrespect and contempt that I have been subjected to in the last 4 months by this current retiring Board. The new Board can do better, and in fact must do better if it is to retain the support and confidence of the membership. The survival of SWISS PILOTS Association is at stake in this election.
*I will welcome a diverse Board with a variety of different skills and attributes. I will promote "Board Resource Management” and Team Work in the SPA within and outside the Board. By example I will seek to impose a professional and disciplined approach, and unlike the current retiring Board, I will not be afraid to hold individual Board members to account for their repeated failings to represent member interests.
*Promote and achieve timely and transparent communication with membership.
*Greater membership consultation and democracy through better use of existing forums including SPA Website, information meetings, and plebiscite/referenda/polling of members if major strategy and policy changes are contemplated and proposed.
*Respect diversity and genuine and constructive debate and argument, welcome and encourage member input, and to provide the membership with all available and meaningful and costed options.
*Commitment to professional Board behaviour and to treat all SPA members equally and to hold no personal grudge against individual members unlike the practice of the current Board.
*To promote a safe and healthy working and flying environment by working forthrightly and constructively with Aeropers, SWISS Flight Safety, Training, Flight Operations, Maintenance, Cabin Crew etc. etc. and the BAZL etc.
*To improve the use and output of Commissions and to make their work and membership more open and transparent.
*Work constructively with, and for, a safety minded, law abiding, fair and nondiscriminatory SWISS management, and where necessary highlight and hold SWISS management to account, all for the betterment of SWISS and the jobs and future of SPA members. Strive for industrial peace and undertake to cultivate and maintain a positive image of SWISS.
*Enhance the working relationship and increase joint action with other SWISS unions such as Aeropers, Kapers and Gata etc. to protect and support the interests of SPA members.
*To fight against RACISM and unfair discrimination within SWISS in all its forms.
*To immediately join SWISSALPA, IFALPA, European Cockpit Association, and the Oneworld Cockpit Crew Coalition and gain the benefits of joining with our worldwide professional aviation colleagues in our common interests.
Unquote
Not bad for a guy who has been sacked from Swiss Airlines for simply telling is opinion (privately), and most probably because he simply is a foreigner, coming from a different culture than the Swiss one...
Last edited by ettore; 16th Dec 2003 at 06:49.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
very interesting read so far - I know 411a is out in Arizona but I didn't realise he was such a COWBOY
What no-one has pointed out so far is that if the engine is not capable of producing full rated thrust, then it's a SICK engine - that could just well go bang at a really bad moment....performance planned take off or not. It's an engine that needs engineering attention, maybe even by the manufacturers themselves.
Not a chance I'd let my family fly with people like 411a.
What no-one has pointed out so far is that if the engine is not capable of producing full rated thrust, then it's a SICK engine - that could just well go bang at a really bad moment....performance planned take off or not. It's an engine that needs engineering attention, maybe even by the manufacturers themselves.
Not a chance I'd let my family fly with people like 411a.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SPA Answer
News on the progress regarding XY instant dismissal
Dear Colleagues
Due to the fact that the negotiations have not been terminated yet and that we are bounded by confidentiality SWISS PILOTS are not ready to commenting on the status of the ongoing case. I fully trust for the understanding of all members that SWISS PILOTS is also not commenting on certain statements within the application of our Member XY, which seem to be focused against the existing board.
Thanks for taking notice.
Felix Wirth
SWISS PILOTS
PS: would pros and contras 411A be kind enough to go an play elsewhere? This thread was opened and intented for a pilot who got fired for posting his opinion on the Swiss Pilots trade union forum about the management of the Swiss Airline. Not about flying an aircraft. Thanks.
Dear Colleagues
Due to the fact that the negotiations have not been terminated yet and that we are bounded by confidentiality SWISS PILOTS are not ready to commenting on the status of the ongoing case. I fully trust for the understanding of all members that SWISS PILOTS is also not commenting on certain statements within the application of our Member XY, which seem to be focused against the existing board.
Thanks for taking notice.
Felix Wirth
SWISS PILOTS
PS: would pros and contras 411A be kind enough to go an play elsewhere? This thread was opened and intented for a pilot who got fired for posting his opinion on the Swiss Pilots trade union forum about the management of the Swiss Airline. Not about flying an aircraft. Thanks.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: europe
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is high time that all swiss pilots should act together to get rid of all the useless managers including Fredi Lu......before the ship sinks.Swiss has the highest number of VP and Managers that no airlines could afford.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arroyo
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the point firing managers? Swiss re-hires them as consultants and pay them three time better. See what happened with former LX-CFO Th... H...
He gets 3'600 Swiss Francs per day (I say per DAY) for ten days of work for SWISS per month. It makes 36'000 Swiss Francs a month, i.e. 432'000 CHF (280'000 euros) a year, as a consultancy fee – not as a salary – nota bene.
Isn't life at Swiss great?
By the way, while setting up the proper Aktiengesellschaft to lower the tax burden on his consultancy fee from 8,65% to 7,23% (the next «Kanton» has cheaper rates), there is another CFO at Swiss, Mr. Svensson, who gots fully paid for the job... So, what do you worry about? Obviously, there is still plenty of money to be burned there. Just help yourself as managers do.
Sorry for getting sarcastic about the issue. It's simply getting
He gets 3'600 Swiss Francs per day (I say per DAY) for ten days of work for SWISS per month. It makes 36'000 Swiss Francs a month, i.e. 432'000 CHF (280'000 euros) a year, as a consultancy fee – not as a salary – nota bene.
Isn't life at Swiss great?
By the way, while setting up the proper Aktiengesellschaft to lower the tax burden on his consultancy fee from 8,65% to 7,23% (the next «Kanton» has cheaper rates), there is another CFO at Swiss, Mr. Svensson, who gots fully paid for the job... So, what do you worry about? Obviously, there is still plenty of money to be burned there. Just help yourself as managers do.
Sorry for getting sarcastic about the issue. It's simply getting
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: N.A.
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After reading this thread I would like to offer my thanks to all you idiots for providing such great entertainment. It's really sad how a threat can become playground for a bunch of kids who claim to be professional pilots. In future try to act your age rather then your IQ...Geeez!!!
