Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Weapons of Minimum Destruction

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Weapons of Minimum Destruction

Old 26th Aug 2003, 01:51
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: 03 ACE
Age: 73
Posts: 1,011
Received 28 Likes on 18 Posts
Weapons of Minimum Destruction

Whilst I realize that this issue has been aired before, I still see no changes being made.
Airport security measures are at best a joke and at worst a dangerous malpractice.

As a frequent business air traveler, I spend a lot of time, either passing through security checks, or hanging around departure lounges. The number of "sharp objects" being confiscated from passengers is definitely on the increase, especially over the summer vacation period.

Periodically, I forget the odd toiletry item on a trip and have to pick something up on arrival at the location, more often than not, a hairbrush, deodorant or a set of nail clippers.

The number of times I have tried to pass through security with nailclippers is embarrassing. The common practice is for the staff to simply snap off the offending 4cm/1.5 inch nail file and send me through.

I have no problem with this; I welcome the apparently higher security measures. I like to feel safe during flights.


Where it all falls down, is in the shopping mall, that is the departure lounge.

During a 2-hour wait in Larnaca a couple of weeks ago, I spotted Manicure sets, Swiss Army Knives and other such objects, openly on sale.

Seeing this, makes me realize that the whole expensive, time consuming, check in and scanning procedures are nothing but a bad joke.

Mind you, if I had any intention of attacking a fellow passenger or crewmember, or even taking over the aircraft, I would probably go for the easy option buy my weapon on board at discount prices.

I reckon the jagged edge of a nice bottle of single malt could do the job better than any Nail File, Swiss Army Knife or Boxcutter.

What do the folks who actually spend most of their working lives in the wild blue yonder, think about this, does it bother you ???


Funny Old World innit ???

Last edited by El Grifo; 26th Aug 2003 at 02:17.
El Grifo is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 03:32
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Skagness on the beach
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just think of what a good job of burning down the cockpit door a bottle of 100 proof vodka and a rag would do? bombs away
747FOCAL is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 03:34
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well during my long wait at Paphos airport for the check-in desk, I could clearly see where the check-in bags are x-rayed.
Much to my amusement there was a single guy in a seat looking at the x-ray screen, only thing was he was checking the inside of his eyelids, unfortunatly they didn't have any holes in, which took him atleast 5 minutes to realise and quickly sat back up in his chair and monitored his screen asthough nothing had happened.

What excellent airport security.
pilotpaul is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 03:54
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UTC +8
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hey, 747 Focal: Do you really think that cabin attendants and concerned passengers would not immediately be involved in quickly extinguishing any fire and restraining any deranged pax who would make or attempt to make a fire..? Besides, the reinforced armored cockpit door and bulkhead are far more fire resistant than anything else in the cabin, including the aluminum structure.
GlueBall is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 04:00
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I still reckon that 130 pax armed with Swiss Army Knives would be a force to be reckoned with.

All that security achieves is to ensure that the victims are not in a position to defend themselves.

Tony
Tony Bowers is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 04:08
  #6 (permalink)  
Mental Floss Prevents Moral Decay
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sim City
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Very recently on NAIA-MNL my hand lugage was checked 3 (!) times after I checked my lugage in. The last time was just before boarding the plane. It's even forbidden to enter the departure hall without a valid ticket.
Kwasi_Mensa is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 04:36
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Skagness on the beach
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GlueBall,

Oh I agree that it will be real hard to hyjack the avg plane anymore because of PAX intervention, but I also think it will be hard to fly a plane with the door on fire and a madman standing there with one more cocktail ready to throw on the first brave soul down the aisleway.

I also know that the doors can only withstand 200 lbs moving 5 mph before busting. I way 220 and can get moving a hell of a lot faster than 5 mph.
747FOCAL is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 04:44
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: LGW
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But, the doors open out into the cabin , therefore, you moving faster than 5mph into a door which opens outwards, ain't gonna do much good is it?
jettesen is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 05:48
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California USA
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oh dear... conflicted...

On one hand, these discussions need to be had. On the other, I start to get uneasy when it is done in such a public place. Note that Iím not so naive to think that a potential terrorist is reading this thread and slapping his forehead saying, "Larnaca! Of course! Thank goodness someone pointed out that Larnaca might offer some special opportunities!" All I'm saying is that the value of this kind of information increases as the amount of information accumulates. However (and the reason for my being conflicted), the cross-section of international aviation which comes to meet here on PPRuNe can really contribute when they chew on these kinds of things. Certainly, every one of us sees holes in the fabric of aviation security. However, there are really very few places to flesh out problems and potential solutions without, at the same time, drawing a map for the bad guys. I find this very frustrating.

One specific point though...

jettesen-- I honestly mean no disrespect, but it's not that simple. I'll just leave it at that for now.

Dave
av8boy is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 06:27
  #10 (permalink)  

I'matightbastard
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I still reckon that 130 pax armed with Swiss Army Knives would be a force to be reckoned with.
How would you arrange them though?

A Battalion of the long blade with the flanks protected by a detachment of Philips screwdriver on one side and regular screwdriver on the other.

Withering cover could be layed down by two or three well placed can openers in the front and several magnifying glasses, moving throughout the action to relay back information regarding the enemy's deployments.

The rear echelon would consist of the corkscrews (supplies) and the pen (archives and debriefing). Horses hooves stone removers would of course inflitrate the enemy lines as the espionage arm and would be used to 'turn' some of the more vulnerable enemy assets.
Onan the Clumsy is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 06:38
  #11 (permalink)  
pzu
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: N Yorkshire, UK
Age: 76
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Shock Horror!!!

Having just departed PZU (yes the airport HE built), transitted KRT (yes its on the list) then FRA (german efficiency) & CDG (gallic je ne sais quois - where they wanted to remove my belt);

Imagine my surprise when i found my bottle opener (courtesy Swiss Army) in my HAND LUGGAGE - 3 days after I got home!!!

Who do I confess my sin to - or do I pass straight to GITMO!!!
pzu is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 06:39
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: 03 ACE
Age: 73
Posts: 1,011
Received 28 Likes on 18 Posts
Actually Onan,
I reckon the guy with the ragged stump of the remains of the single malt bottle would manage just fine !!

Av8boy - I also find this very frustrating. The toy town weapon is confiscated at security and the heavy-duty weapon of multiple use, is flogged to them on board, accompanied with a smile and have a nice day
El Grifo is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 10:11
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: THE BIG SUNNY SANDPIT
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Spare a thought for us ground staff.

In the last couple of weeks I have taken shotguns and ammunition out to aircraft and carried a hunting rifle from an aircraft to arrivals for the police to inspect, Yesterday morning I took 2 ceremonial military swords to the out of gauge gate, went through security (where my plastic knife and fork were confiscated) then picked up the two 3 foot long polished steel bladed swords from the baggage hall and took them out to the aircraft.
In short I am allowed to carry almost any weapon around the airport as long as it belongs to a passenger, but am not even able to carry a plastic fork if it belongs to me!!!
nibor is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 11:25
  #14 (permalink)  

I'matightbastard
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
El Grifo, true, but to wield it properly, he'll have to be Scottish
Onan the Clumsy is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 14:51
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Limbricht
Posts: 2,193
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
I think that these matters do need to be aired publicly. Security is a joke. The industry is suffering as a consequence. Why should we not expose idiotic so-called security rules for the sham that they are? It's time to make these idiots accountable for their idiocies!

Phew, I feel better now
Avman is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 15:17
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Onan
A Battalion of the long blade with the flanks protected by a detachment of Philips screwdriver on one side and regular screwdriver on the other.
If it's good enough for the Swiss Army it's good enough for me.

Tony
Tony Bowers is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2003, 20:51
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Skagness on the beach
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
jettesen,

It really doesn't matter which way the door opens when the hinges will tear out of the bulkhead when an object that weighs at least 200 lbs and moving 5 mph or greater impacts the door. This is in Boeing's own press releases regarding the doors installation.

Then if you really want to get cute.......... You UK chaps should understand this one having been sold cars with locks that can have half a tennis ball placed over the keyhole and one whack and all the doors unlock......... The pressure differential tube that is on the outer side to sense rapid decompression will also react the same way if you know what you are doing.

But like Avman says, we should just put our head in the sand instead of trying to fix problems. No offense intended.
747FOCAL is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.