PIA Manchester Scare.
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The picture is slightly misleading, in that 24L runway does slope up at the 06R end. In the picture the 06R threshold is hidden by the grass embankment we see in the foreground.
Unless you are inside on the perimeter road and have ATC permission to enter the sterile area, you could not get a straight down the centre line photo looking in from over the fence, due to this grass 'ski jump' embankment. Hence presumably why it has been taken slightly off centreline. And I don't think anyone would want to be in that centreline position anyway
I would say that the picture is 100% genuine as regards the aircraft's position and point of rotation. It is just misleading owing to the telephoto lens perspective with the grass foreground obstructing the view of the remaining part of the runway.
Niteflite
<quote> The mounds of earth ...... are clearly visible on the right hand side of the frame as is the fire training ground <unquote>
Would that be a slip of the finger? Perhaps you meant the R2 Fire Station? The fire training area is not to the right, that is located at the top left of picture at the 24 Right end of Runway 1. The PIA is departing from Runway 2 (24L/06R) and is over the 06R threshold.
Pontious
the threshold markings are located just at the edge of the grass. The ILS gantry is just off picture at the right. The grass drops away at the bottom of the picture, so if you were standing there on the centreline you could not see the runway, because you are down below it. The ground and approach lights then rise up across the field to the road.
Ce411A
I do respect many of your postings, but you do occasionally come up with daft one-liners! The houses in that location were all purchased by the airport authority WELL BEFORE the construction of Runway 2 - (a) for demolition (b) to remove a source of objection at the Planning Inquiry when permission was being sought. The principal (large) house still standing on the extended centreline is now airport property rented out. I do believe it also houses a noise monitoring system and at one time a member of that team was a resident. Nothing like being keen and on the job
Hands up those who remember the noise abatement thread & PIA which ran last year? The outcome as I recall was that PIA 747s climbed straight ahead and b*ll*cks to the SID and noise abatement. Can't remember about the fines, was it a case of the airport giving up in despair, or PIA not bothering to pay?
Anyone who has walked the dog around the perimeter fence and through the approach lights at the 06R end will recognize this view. This picture is not a one-off. After all there are 3 PIA 747s per day into MAN, and each one generates the same level of will-it-won't it entertainment when it comes to departure. Why not pop down and judge for yourself
Point Seven -
well said, though I will take issue with one of your observation in this context.
<quote> Forget the old "what if they had an engine fire?" twaddle, if they had, everyone would have known about it. <unquote>
What makes you think everyone would know about it? One PIA 747 flight landed on 3 engines without telling ATC. It was only when a member of the public, way out on the 24R approach phoned the local police to report an airliner with an engine on fire, that the truth came to light.
Then of course there was the bomb on board warning which PIA received when a 747 was 30 mins into a flight from Pakistan to MAN to JFK. Now you would have thought that the safest thing to do would be to put down at the nearest airport Well this aircraft continued it journey all the way to MAN, where it was eventually moved to the 24 Left midpoint, to await the passing of the announced detonation time, as given in the original message received at PIA HQ. So much for putting passengers and crews lives at risk, not to mention all the residents of the many countries it passed over.
I'm informed by the cargo guys, that one of the reasons PIA 747s are heavy, especially on a monday, is the vast quantities of National Health Service medicines which are being flown out to Pakistani UK residents. I say again, being flown OUT to Pakistani UK residents
Lumbalund,
I have often wondered how female PIA pilots get on in the muslim world. I know PIA have one female 747 captain and an f/o. One of whom originated from the F-27 fleet where she was a captain. Given the muslim tradition of treating females as second class citizens and muslim males refusing to accept them as equals, let alone take orders from them, can you enlighten us unclean, drunken, amateurs how a female PIA captain copes with the job of bossing all those upstanding Pakistani gentlemen around?
Unless you are inside on the perimeter road and have ATC permission to enter the sterile area, you could not get a straight down the centre line photo looking in from over the fence, due to this grass 'ski jump' embankment. Hence presumably why it has been taken slightly off centreline. And I don't think anyone would want to be in that centreline position anyway
I would say that the picture is 100% genuine as regards the aircraft's position and point of rotation. It is just misleading owing to the telephoto lens perspective with the grass foreground obstructing the view of the remaining part of the runway.
Niteflite
<quote> The mounds of earth ...... are clearly visible on the right hand side of the frame as is the fire training ground <unquote>
Would that be a slip of the finger? Perhaps you meant the R2 Fire Station? The fire training area is not to the right, that is located at the top left of picture at the 24 Right end of Runway 1. The PIA is departing from Runway 2 (24L/06R) and is over the 06R threshold.
Pontious
the threshold markings are located just at the edge of the grass. The ILS gantry is just off picture at the right. The grass drops away at the bottom of the picture, so if you were standing there on the centreline you could not see the runway, because you are down below it. The ground and approach lights then rise up across the field to the road.
Ce411A
I do respect many of your postings, but you do occasionally come up with daft one-liners! The houses in that location were all purchased by the airport authority WELL BEFORE the construction of Runway 2 - (a) for demolition (b) to remove a source of objection at the Planning Inquiry when permission was being sought. The principal (large) house still standing on the extended centreline is now airport property rented out. I do believe it also houses a noise monitoring system and at one time a member of that team was a resident. Nothing like being keen and on the job
Hands up those who remember the noise abatement thread & PIA which ran last year? The outcome as I recall was that PIA 747s climbed straight ahead and b*ll*cks to the SID and noise abatement. Can't remember about the fines, was it a case of the airport giving up in despair, or PIA not bothering to pay?
Anyone who has walked the dog around the perimeter fence and through the approach lights at the 06R end will recognize this view. This picture is not a one-off. After all there are 3 PIA 747s per day into MAN, and each one generates the same level of will-it-won't it entertainment when it comes to departure. Why not pop down and judge for yourself
Point Seven -
well said, though I will take issue with one of your observation in this context.
<quote> Forget the old "what if they had an engine fire?" twaddle, if they had, everyone would have known about it. <unquote>
What makes you think everyone would know about it? One PIA 747 flight landed on 3 engines without telling ATC. It was only when a member of the public, way out on the 24R approach phoned the local police to report an airliner with an engine on fire, that the truth came to light.
Then of course there was the bomb on board warning which PIA received when a 747 was 30 mins into a flight from Pakistan to MAN to JFK. Now you would have thought that the safest thing to do would be to put down at the nearest airport Well this aircraft continued it journey all the way to MAN, where it was eventually moved to the 24 Left midpoint, to await the passing of the announced detonation time, as given in the original message received at PIA HQ. So much for putting passengers and crews lives at risk, not to mention all the residents of the many countries it passed over.
I'm informed by the cargo guys, that one of the reasons PIA 747s are heavy, especially on a monday, is the vast quantities of National Health Service medicines which are being flown out to Pakistani UK residents. I say again, being flown OUT to Pakistani UK residents
Lumbalund,
I have often wondered how female PIA pilots get on in the muslim world. I know PIA have one female 747 captain and an f/o. One of whom originated from the F-27 fleet where she was a captain. Given the muslim tradition of treating females as second class citizens and muslim males refusing to accept them as equals, let alone take orders from them, can you enlighten us unclean, drunken, amateurs how a female PIA captain copes with the job of bossing all those upstanding Pakistani gentlemen around?
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ROCKWELL
Dont mistake Pakistan with some of the middle eastern states .
Women here have equal rights and are present in all professions including one who was Prime Minister .
PIA has three female pilots ,two on 747 and one on 310, all are first officers awaiting their command and one joining as a cadet pilot in one months time.
Dont mistake Pakistan with some of the middle eastern states .
Women here have equal rights and are present in all professions including one who was Prime Minister .
PIA has three female pilots ,two on 747 and one on 310, all are first officers awaiting their command and one joining as a cadet pilot in one months time.
Quote
"Given the muslim tradition of treating females as second class citizens and muslim males refusing to accept them as equals, let alone take orders from them.."
Nice to know that bigotry and intolerance of other races and religions is alive and well on pprune.
dixynormous et al, so you are worried that PIA flights may be going out empty, perhaps you would like to buy a one way ticket yourselves?
Then again why should Pakistan have to suffer?
"Given the muslim tradition of treating females as second class citizens and muslim males refusing to accept them as equals, let alone take orders from them.."
Nice to know that bigotry and intolerance of other races and religions is alive and well on pprune.
dixynormous et al, so you are worried that PIA flights may be going out empty, perhaps you would like to buy a one way ticket yourselves?
Then again why should Pakistan have to suffer?
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Nice to know that bigotry and intolerance of other races and religions is alive and well on pprune.
Dave
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Actually Turin, what Rockwell said was directed not at races but at religion, so the use of the race card was unjustified.
If you have ever lived in any of these countries you would appreciate well what Rockwell said.
If you have ever lived in any of these countries you would appreciate well what Rockwell said.
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Maybe it's just me but has anyone else noticed that rather large turning circle at the south-western end of 24R?? Perhaps this revelation could account for the apparent bending of the runway toward the photographer??
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Turin
Tut! Tut! Keep your shroud on
I was only asking a straight question. As has already been said by FFFlyer, certain Middle East
countries do treat females in a somewhat different manner to the rest of the muslim world. Perhaps
it was wrong for me to lump that entire world under the one banner.
Lumbalund
Thanks for that. Nice to hear. I was aware of the female President, after all her father did have a
HS Trident to fly around in.
Tut! Tut! Keep your shroud on
I was only asking a straight question. As has already been said by FFFlyer, certain Middle East
countries do treat females in a somewhat different manner to the rest of the muslim world. Perhaps
it was wrong for me to lump that entire world under the one banner.
Lumbalund
Thanks for that. Nice to hear. I was aware of the female President, after all her father did have a
HS Trident to fly around in.
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Maybe it's just me but has anyone else noticed that rather large turning circle at the south-western end of 24R??
What next? Threads about navaids or aircraft accidents? Shut 'em down, Danny.
Dave
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This is without doubt the most banal thread I have seen so far on here
I am considering starting another thread entitled
Deathrap Aircraft/Airlines.......
Contributions must be from:
Those who don't/ have never worked in the industry
Those who do and should know better than attempting to reply
to the above and below, and expect an informed and qualified debate to follow
Those with irrational predjudices
That strange collection of individuals who infest airports, (and this site) to no apparent purpose than to watch aircraft and return home to post their cerebrally challenged opinions on this site, providing the rest of us with an apparently endless supply of comedic ravings.(Bless you all)
Those who, having never experienced real incidents think there is some perverse glamour in being associated, however remotely with one.
Those with a sense of humour
While I am here.
For years I commuted to work on a Viscount up to LSI (Joe Shell's Airline).
Can any ex BAF/BW crew tell me what that "alarm clock" was on shutdown? We allways had a connecting flight holding for us and didnt have the time to ask.
Such was the gold rush.
.
I am considering starting another thread entitled
Deathrap Aircraft/Airlines.......
Contributions must be from:
Those who don't/ have never worked in the industry
Those who do and should know better than attempting to reply
to the above and below, and expect an informed and qualified debate to follow
Those with irrational predjudices
That strange collection of individuals who infest airports, (and this site) to no apparent purpose than to watch aircraft and return home to post their cerebrally challenged opinions on this site, providing the rest of us with an apparently endless supply of comedic ravings.(Bless you all)
Those who, having never experienced real incidents think there is some perverse glamour in being associated, however remotely with one.
Those with a sense of humour
While I am here.
For years I commuted to work on a Viscount up to LSI (Joe Shell's Airline).
Can any ex BAF/BW crew tell me what that "alarm clock" was on shutdown? We allways had a connecting flight holding for us and didnt have the time to ask.
Such was the gold rush.
.
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LLOYD M
I think this has been quite an interesting thread apart from the dodgy entries about race issues.
The site might be called Pilots rumour network, but that doesnt exclude anyone else who has an interest in the world of aviation, as the varied titles of the various forums prove.
Your comments are arrogant to say the least and typical of the attitude that many have on this site, this "I am a pilot, so therefore you dont know what your talking about, and everything you say must be wrong"
Quite frankly. I and I suspect many other readers thing you are a "arrogant prat"
I think this has been quite an interesting thread apart from the dodgy entries about race issues.
The site might be called Pilots rumour network, but that doesnt exclude anyone else who has an interest in the world of aviation, as the varied titles of the various forums prove.
Your comments are arrogant to say the least and typical of the attitude that many have on this site, this "I am a pilot, so therefore you dont know what your talking about, and everything you say must be wrong"
Quite frankly. I and I suspect many other readers thing you are a "arrogant prat"
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?
Lloyd M,
While I admit that some of the posts here are less than desirable, what would be the point of a debate if all and sundry agreed?
I'm not a pilot nor am I involved with any part of the aviation industry. I guess that makes me an idiot in your book, an idiot who would do best to keep his mouth shut. There do seem to be three distinct types of people on this forum, aviation professionals happy to engage in open debate, and, informed (some more than others) members of the public who also wish to learn. The third type would be aviation professionals who deem that anybody with one less hour/dollar/pound/ounce of sense then themselves is a lower form of human life, and not worthy of the air they breathe, let alone a username on this board.
I just wish someone could vector this thread back on course; we appear to be flying in circles.
While I admit that some of the posts here are less than desirable, what would be the point of a debate if all and sundry agreed?
I'm not a pilot nor am I involved with any part of the aviation industry. I guess that makes me an idiot in your book, an idiot who would do best to keep his mouth shut. There do seem to be three distinct types of people on this forum, aviation professionals happy to engage in open debate, and, informed (some more than others) members of the public who also wish to learn. The third type would be aviation professionals who deem that anybody with one less hour/dollar/pound/ounce of sense then themselves is a lower form of human life, and not worthy of the air they breathe, let alone a username on this board.
I just wish someone could vector this thread back on course; we appear to be flying in circles.
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Keep em coming..
This HAS been one of the most banal threads I have had the honour to read over the past couple of weeks but for me it has
a) taught me alot about PIA 747's
b) given me a intimate knowledge of Manchester's RW 24/06
c) given me loads of good ideas for a news story should it be so quiet in our newsroom that we have to invent something (not that we ever would of course;-)
d) made me giggle alot more than usual.
Thank you. I look forward to the next banal thread:-)
Adam
PPL and (Radio) Journalist
a) taught me alot about PIA 747's
b) given me a intimate knowledge of Manchester's RW 24/06
c) given me loads of good ideas for a news story should it be so quiet in our newsroom that we have to invent something (not that we ever would of course;-)
d) made me giggle alot more than usual.
Thank you. I look forward to the next banal thread:-)
Adam
PPL and (Radio) Journalist
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Now let me see, the primary issue under discussion is SAFETY.
A photo was posted by way of evidence. At first glance everyone is taken aback, fingers point, voices mutter, the cry goes out 'guilty'.
Knowledgeable contributors then point out that camera angles and lenses don't always tell the truth. So the picture isn't quite what it seems.
Lloydm - Do you have a problem with discussing aviation safety on this Board?
A photo was posted by way of evidence. At first glance everyone is taken aback, fingers point, voices mutter, the cry goes out 'guilty'.
Knowledgeable contributors then point out that camera angles and lenses don't always tell the truth. So the picture isn't quite what it seems.
Lloydm - Do you have a problem with discussing aviation safety on this Board?
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More in keeping....etc
I remember an Aviogenex Tu134 being given no less than ten [10] go around instructions...then landed, narrowly missing a light a/c clearing the runway at MAN.
I also remember a couple of years ago [summer, R/W06L] the PIA B742 took some roof tiles from a house on Ringway Road. Vortex or JetBlast not sure
As has been said before, "Nose wheel B]lifting[/B] at JA" is ermm, interesting
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
I remember an Aviogenex Tu134 being given no less than ten [10] go around instructions...then landed, narrowly missing a light a/c clearing the runway at MAN.
I also remember a couple of years ago [summer, R/W06L] the PIA B742 took some roof tiles from a house on Ringway Road.
Vortex or JetBlast not sure As has been said before, "Nose wheel B]lifting[/B] at JA" is ermm, interesting
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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monday morning blues
Gents!!
In this business it is foolish to have the monday morning quarter-back.
In other words"could-of, should-of, would-of" is no place for us here!
You were not there, were you?
They may have had a good reason, or not why dont we let MAN atc take care of it.
BB1 what if it was BA, would speculation be in order then?
In this business it is foolish to have the monday morning quarter-back.
In other words"could-of, should-of, would-of" is no place for us here!
You were not there, were you?
They may have had a good reason, or not why dont we let MAN atc take care of it.
BB1 what if it was BA, would speculation be in order then?
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This thread has two potential outcomes.
One may involve litigation. The other will be as evidence post accident. Dare I ask whether the ATCO's who handle the departures of PIA consider a little footage to pass on to the unsuspecting general public via the media? A picture ('undoctered') says a thousand words. 10 seconds of footage tell a million.
PIA are operating a monopoly route outside Perf A considerations judging by the anecdotal evidence we see here. I would hate to think that lives were lost because the previous 9 pages were not acted upon.
35ft Screen height has no fat left in it, let alone roof tiles.
One may involve litigation. The other will be as evidence post accident. Dare I ask whether the ATCO's who handle the departures of PIA consider a little footage to pass on to the unsuspecting general public via the media? A picture ('undoctered') says a thousand words. 10 seconds of footage tell a million.
PIA are operating a monopoly route outside Perf A considerations judging by the anecdotal evidence we see here. I would hate to think that lives were lost because the previous 9 pages were not acted upon.
35ft Screen height has no fat left in it, let alone roof tiles.