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-   -   Flying Early Helicopters (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/668333-flying-early-helicopters.html)

Deep Throat 23rd September 2025 09:21


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 11958228)
TT's control operation description fairly complete but excludes some interesting 'quirks' e.g.
the Sycamore throttle being transverse rather than longitudinal (muscle memory ?)
the Sioux rotor inertia allowing an e o l followed by a lift to low hover and a further e o l.
the Mil 8 throttle works in the opposite direction to Western types - Tern Hill QHI 'discovered' this when training a Jordanian student ... in a low level 'computer out' exercise ! :eek:
... as to John Dixson's description of the rear-facing control on the Skycrane :ooh:

Cornish Jack and I may have our little spats re politics but I truly admire his flying career - which is what PPRuNe is about for me

Found this a while ago


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_M._Young


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....096b813bde.png
Early Helicopter Control Layout - the 'Pump Handle' Collective in the pilots left hand

FLOYD CARLSON


https://vertipedia.vtol.org/biograph...biographyID/22


.

To Quote one viewer - "Mystery of [helicopter] flight just unfolded in front my eyes. Brilliant piece of documentary.

76fan 23rd September 2025 10:03

Great film, very interesting. Thanks for posting.

Cloudryther 23rd September 2025 10:16

I have a book on the early helicopter days, I'll share some content here.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....91cd318b3.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....60e74312f.jpeg

Deep Throat 23rd September 2025 11:15

This could be one of the first images of what we would describe as a conventional helicopter - in the video this configuration does not yet have 'conventional controls

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1ff9c6c682.png

Sikorsky

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1402fa159a.png


Tailspin Turtle 23rd September 2025 11:53

Another illustration (mine) of the initial Bell Model 30 flight controls:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....582e39f72b.jpg
The "pump handle" was also yaw control; there were no rudder pedals. After a Bell test pilot was assigned to the program, rudder pedals were added and the throttle put on the collective.

pithblot 23rd September 2025 12:12


Originally Posted by 212man (Post 11957977)
Is this our first AI response post?

Fraid knot, 212man; I beat Tailspin Turtle by 3 posts. But, unlike TT I can’t claim any expertise, not even any rotary time, save a TIF in a Hiller many years ago and a couple of opportunities to play that cropped up in my fixed-wing career.

In the fixed-wing department, I am quite a fan of Gann. And of Eric “Winkle” Brown. EKG tells a story in his book, Flying Circus, about the bloke who taught me to fly the DC3 and Winkle Brown was a much admired colleague of my late Dear Old Dad, who was a Seafire pilot in the RNVR.

As you might expect, Fate Is The Hunter and Wings On My Sleeve have a place on my bookshelf.

When the OP posted the question, I remembered WB’s account in his book. I then asked ChatGPT to fill in the blanks and give me something to post for the benefit of this discussion…. thus my post #8.

Interestingly, in post #8, you can see where aí corrected my Chat Prompt in its answer (1945, not 1944).

So, piltblot beat Tailspin Turtle in this environment. Somehow however, I doubt either were the first to use AÍ in pprune-land.

Cheers,
pithblot

Cylinder Head 23rd September 2025 17:45

Bug,
I can probably help. PM me with your location.
Cylinder Head

Robbiee 24th September 2025 02:54

I flew a 22 with a cassette deck in it. Lucky me I still had one tape left (Rainbow- Long Live Rock 'N Roll). I listened to it one night on a flight down to Monterey.


Cornish Jack 24th September 2025 09:05

Warm Throat, thank you !
Absolutely fascinating film, in particular the time scale, From that most basic experimentation to the relative 'sophistication' of such as the Dragonfly, Sycamore and the proliferation of rotary wing products of the 50s was remarkable.
The mention of the early speed checks being based on formating with a car, brought back memories of one of our Boscombe trials ... early start and the '5 wheel' L R u/s, so the test engineer (fully kitted in flying gear with parachute and bone dome !) on a bicycle, holding an anemometer (to provide accurate airspeeds) for a Wessex, tethered to a Bedford 5 tonner, checking low speed power curves ... Heath Robinson ? - maybe, but it worked :D

rotormatic 25th September 2025 01:06

Hiller 360
 
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ae600c9d80.png


SASless 25th September 2025 19:02

Someone correct me if I am wrong....did not the "Skeeter" have fabric covered main rotor blades?


sycamore 25th September 2025 20:12

SAS,yes but the blades had a steel spar,multiple wood ribs and veneers.I think the fabric was really an outer
covering,as a protective cover,rather than as on other fabric wings,yo can get `ballooning` between ribs.as fabric has to be sewn onto each rib.I don`t think the AACorps had a `Needlework` section,but `who knows`.?
I blagged a trip in a `Skeeter` at Ternhill,whilst doing the `basic` helo course.Until the Gazelle came along ,flying the Skeeter was like sitting in a favourite leather armchair,and whizzing about like a demented fly at 50ft,or even 5 ft...!!

POBJOY 25th September 2025 21:24


Originally Posted by sycamore (Post 11959698)
I blagged a trip in a `Skeeter` at Ternhill,whilst doing the `basic` helo course.Until the Gazelle came along ,flying the Skeeter was like sitting in a favourite leather armchair,and whizzing about like a demented fly at 50ft,or even 5 ft...!!

Rather like a Rotary version of a Turbulent Syc, when did 'autorotation' become a part of regular training in the Rotary world.

Bug 26th September 2025 00:29


Originally Posted by Cylinder Head (Post 11958522)
Bug,
I can probably help. PM me with your location.
Cylinder Head

Cylinder Head.
PM sent.

helispotter 26th September 2025 05:56


Originally Posted by rotormatic (Post 11959251)

After not seeing anyone at the controls, I had to look more carefully. Is that seriously the two crew hanging on the sides? What is the story?!

Agile 26th September 2025 06:06


Originally Posted by helispotter (Post 11959856)
After not seeing anyone at the controls, I had to look more carefully. Is that seriously the two crew hanging on the sides? What is the story?!

Newest humanoid hydraulic servo with AI embedded inteligence.

treadigraph 26th September 2025 09:31

Vaguely recall a story of an ag Hiller or maybe a Bell 47 being flown home from a fairly remote location in the US with a mechanic hanging onto the side of the engine platform, holding a fundamental part of the gubbins together... anyone put flesh on that one?

SASless 26th September 2025 12:56

Seems to me there was an accident involving a Soloy Hiller where a mechanic went outside to manipulate a control linkage but fell from the aircraft and was killed. It was a long time ago and would have happened at Olympia, Washington. I cannot recall the details but involved Soloy employees.

Rotorbee 26th September 2025 13:01


Originally Posted by treadigraph (Post 11959938)
Vaguely recall a story of an ag Hiller or maybe a Bell 47 being flown home from a fairly remote location in the US with a mechanic hanging onto the side of the engine platform, holding a fundamental part of the gubbins together... anyone put flesh on that one?

I think that was a story by the founder of TEMSCO, Ken Eicher. His Passenger used a screwdriver to hold a control linkage on the swashplate together. If I remember correctly.

Brewster Buffalo 26th September 2025 13:24

Hooton Park Trust on the Wirral has a Sikorsky R-4B on display. The trust only opens one day a month and that day is this Sunday 28th if you fancy a look.

Hooton Park - R-4B Hoverfly

History of the particular aircraft - Hoverfly History


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