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Looking at an "enhanced" version of the full video posted above, the tailboom folded in the same plane as though the LH mount(s) failed. And with the 5 degree offset of the vert fin it seemed to follow that direction. Then everything else let go. Will be interesting to see the whats still attached to the tailboom. While there have been cases where a tailboom was lost it wasn't at speed like this one was. And since they have pics of where the components landed, I would think they would find them sooner than later. To me if he had felt anything in the drivetrain before that he would have been slowing down and looking for a spot to land which he had plenty in that area. Unfortunately it looks more like it was an instantaneous catastrophic event.
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Originally Posted by albatross
(Post 11864427)
Sorry Clutter. What is a stress riser? Are you referring to bending forces being applied to the mast by the rotor head and blades.
Isn’t it the blades and head flapping excessively, especially in a low or -G situation causing. the bump stops on the head to impact the mast causing it to deform, lose strength and break. Hence occurrences of mast bumping in nap or the earth flying when the aircraft comes over a ridge line and the pilot abruptly moves the cyclic forward and perhaps even decreases collective pitch to follow the terrain. Low or even negative G, low power, rotor system flapping…the holes in the swiss cheese line up quickly. I vaguely remember being told the G limits were -0.5 G to +2G and to especially avoid low or -G to avoid bumping. An amazing amount of non-helicopter folks think the mast is a solid steel rod not a cylinder. |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 11864783)
This is the part they will be looking for. If the link assembly of the nodal beam system breaks you are in a spot of bother.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ced6547047.png |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 11864773)
Yep. My guess is your guess is on the money. They will unravel what happened soon enough.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....58784bfa99.png The MGB is still attached after the tail boom has detached |
How would you manhandle a 206L to make the tailboom fold? Considering it appears to be in level flight and under power.
There’s rumour, then there is fantasy. With so many non aviation folks following a high interest topic, it is frankly irresponsible on a professional site (that comes ahead of the rumour in the title) to give credence to such unsubstantiated nonsense. |
Fixed-wing FDM guy here - do those who do the work and fly them, (and who have my admiration), know what flight-data systems are installed on these types of operations?
I suspect, (and at least hope that), any such installation is going to be better than what we learned was “installed” in the helicopter involved in the DCA accident, but I am not familiar with the FARs, nor the CARs here in Canada that govern CVRs & DFDRs, etc. for rotary-wing aircraft. |
There was a recent incident with a 206L with Van Horn blades that got into the “van horn nodal beam hop” so bad that it crinkled the tailboom on the way down. Curious if the helicopter was light enough for the same but the vibes got bad enough to break the tailboom and/or rip the tranny out?
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Originally Posted by PJ2
(Post 11864851)
Fixed-wing FDM guy here - do those who do the work and fly them, (and who have my admiration), know what flight-data systems are installed on these types of operations?
I suspect, (and at least hope that), any such installation is going to be better than what we learned was “installed” in the helicopter involved in the DCA accident, but I am not familiar with the FARs, nor the CARs here in Canada that govern CVRs & DFDRs, etc. for rotary-wing aircraft. |
For what it's worth, I notice on the NTSB youtube channel that they will hold a media briefing at 18:30 GMT today.
Don't know if I am allowed to post links yet, let me try: |
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
(Post 11864845)
How would you manhandle a 206L to make the tailboom fold? Considering it appears to be in level flight and under power.
Several years ago a similar failure happened to a 407 in Hawaii with 6 on board, at 1500ft with 130 indicated when there was a violent upset and the nose spun right. A pax saw something fall from the aircraft and by hook or crook and luck they all survived. The tailboom had departed the aircraft in a similar fashion due to the upper LH T/B bolt failed. Unfortunately with the L4, I know of no teetering head helicopter that could survive such a CG upset in flight and stay together. Hawaii 407 NTSB |
I posted this some years ago, but feel that it bears some significance to the subject matter of this thread.
Getting Back on the Horse I was a relatively low-time PPL-SEL (maybe 200 hours) in 1979 when a friend who was flying Evergreen 206 LR's to a test oil rig off the coast of Georgia said he would teach me to fly "frantic palm trees". I had accumulated four hours and could hover clumsily but handle other flight regimes satisfactorily when he called one Sunday morning to ask if I'd like to bring my wife and 9-year-old son on a sight-seeing tour. Hell yes, I would! We flew for an hour doing some low-level (10’) high-speed passes over the marshes, rivers, and ocean, and some fairly high G aerobatic work. We were three minutes from KSSI (McKinnon St. Simons) and were on long final. We had received permission to land and were descending through 2,000'. My "friend", a 6,000-hour 'Nam pilot who was flying right seat, came over the intercom and said "Watch this!" He reached for and cycled the Emergency Fuel Cutoff switch. The annunciator panel went from green to orange to red! He had starved the engine of fuel and we were too low to get a restart! This was going to be a genuine autorotation. I turned to my family in the rear seat and yelled "Brace! Brace! Brace!" We hit the beach, the skids dug in, the helicopter tipped forward, the main rotor clipped the tail boom off in a neat decapitation which spun us a full 360 degrees. My wife grabbed our son in her arms and exited to the left; the end of still-spinning main rotor puffed up her hair as it cleared her by an inch! I fumbled with my 5-point restraint for what seemed like hours, then ran like the devil. The starboard fuel bladder had ruptured and was spilling jet-A near the exhaust. The T.O.T. was ~ 700 degrees, the VSI pegged at 2,500 down, and the ASI at 40 knots. We were lucky to be alive... Some serious adult beverage consumption coupled with general prayers of thanksgiving to anyone listening followed that afternoon, but bright and early the next morning I went alone for an hour's introspective solo in my 152. Had I not, I am not certain that I would have ever flown again. I have abseiled and was an ardent skydiver until my then-wife put her foot down and forced me to choose between her and my T-28. I have hung by one foot and one hand 50' above the stage while changing gels and bulbs in theatrical lighting. But get me on a 6' step ladder and it's time for vertigo and acrophobia! Go figure... - Ed |
I would like to revisit the fuel starvation scenario. Back in the 1980s our unit had a similar inflight breakup of a Bell AH-1S. I was determined that the cause may have been the result of an inadvertent rollback of the engine at high speed and max power. This resulted in the rotor extreme main rotor flapping causing it to contact the airframe in multiple places as it departed the aircraft. It concerns me that the pilot request fuel within 3 minutes of takeoff into what would have been a relatively short flight.
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 11864695)
When you are humming along at 80-100kts and there is a sudden loss of drive to the trail rotor that does not result in a massive uncontrollable yaw. In forward flight you have a lot of vertical hardware hanging off the206L tail boom to give you some directional control. Lower the collective lever to reduce the torque in the rotor system and you're back in business with a fighting chance. Yaw to the left with loss of drive to the tail rotor in the 206?
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Originally Posted by Jack Carson
(Post 11864931)
I would like to revisit the fuel starvation scenario. Back in the 1980s our unit had a similar inflight breakup of a Bell AH-1S. I was determined that the cause may have been the result of an inadvertent rollback of the engine at high speed and max power. This resulted in the rotor extreme main rotor flapping causing it to contact the airframe in multiple places as it departed the aircraft. It concerns me that the pilot request fuel within 3 minutes of takeoff into what would have been a relatively short flight.
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Originally Posted by Jack Carson
(Post 11864931)
I would like to revisit the fuel starvation scenario. Back in the 1980s our unit had a similar inflight breakup of a Bell AH-1S. I was determined that the cause may have been the result of an inadvertent rollback of the engine at high speed and max power. This resulted in the rotor extreme main rotor flapping causing it to contact the airframe in multiple places as it departed the aircraft. It concerns me that the pilot request fuel within 3 minutes of takeoff into what would have been a relatively short flight.
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A Blancolirio report.
I think he says that this Bell is not common for Mast Bumping |
Originally Posted by albatross
(Post 11864933)
Are we all in agreement that if you lose Tail Rotor drive, for whatever reason with power applied the Bell Helicopter will enthusiastically yaw RIGHT?
EDIT: If somebody has some insight that yaw was to the left then the main gear box has suddenly seized. Sudden gearbox seizure and the helicopter is going to follow the rotation of the main rotor and things will get instantly violent and inflight breakup will most certainly occur, including loss of the tail boom and main rotor system. I can't be certain from the video if it was yaw left or right. I'm not aware of a 206 main gearbox ever seizing suddenly in flight with no prior warning to the pilot. |
This was the pilot, an ex Navy Seal according to New York Post.
https://nypost.com/2025/04/11/us-new...-sean-johnson/ https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....862a8482d.jpeg |
RIP, brother... :(
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