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-   -   RAF announces Puma Replacement plan (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/638863-raf-announces-puma-replacement-plan.html)

Mr Optimistic 31st August 2024 11:08

A good start would be to close Abbey Wood.

rrekn 1st September 2024 10:40

Reminds me of UKSAR2G, come up with a laborious tender regimen and ridiculous assessment criteria which prevents innovative solutions and forces tenders to withdraw rather than spend additional cash to get through the next gate...

DuckDodgers 1st September 2024 16:52

The irony in all this is LM informed MOD in April and were vehemently told not to tell anyone of their intent not to submit. It’s a freaking joke, DHels (oh look Bethell got promoted 🙄) and Army Futures need holding to account. Time to spend the money elsewhere one feels and take a capability holiday!

JulieAndrews 20th September 2024 09:48

So, the hairbrush solution is to:
extend the Puma at xxx millions;
purchase a untested ‘M’ version of an O&G design at xxx millions
which will save you money even if we still don’t know how much an ‘M’ version will cost……

DuckDodgers 21st September 2024 06:47


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11726207)
The thing is dead, long live the Puma HC3…. :}

You couldn’t make this up, what a bunch of inept procurement people we have, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they have squandered multiple millions over the procurement process that has resulted in the total sum of **** all. :mad: :ugh:

Kicking the can down the road simply puts the procurement costs up and to cap the budget reduces the amount that you can buy.

Plus you then get competitors simply giving up in despair and walking away as the reduced fleet size means their profit margins are squeezed and it becomes unviable to proceed.

It’s OK because Keith Bethell got promoted within DE&S for another failure.

rrekn 22nd November 2024 08:08

Sounds like this one has finally died after a long battle, would anyone like to say a few words?

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-...es-2024-11-20/

pr00ne 26th November 2024 00:43


Originally Posted by rrekn (Post 11773002)
Sounds like this one has finally died after a long battle, would anyone like to say a few words?

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-...es-2024-11-20/

No it doesn't, it doesn't say anything of the sort!

The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.

OvertHawk 26th November 2024 21:19


Originally Posted by pr00ne (Post 11775251)
No it doesn't, it doesn't say anything of the sort!

The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.

Yes of course it will.

And Putin will hand over Crimea

And Liz Truss will get the Nobel Prize for Economics.

ericferret 27th November 2024 20:15


Originally Posted by OvertHawk (Post 11775773)
Yes of course it will.

And Putin will hand over Crimea

And Liz Truss will get the Nobel Prize for Economics.

She will be runner up.
Rachel Reeves has it in the bag.

chopper2004 28th November 2024 13:11


Originally Posted by pr00ne (Post 11775251)
No it doesn't, it doesn't say anything of the sort!

The existing Puma fleet is to be retired in March 2025 when the current support contract expires. 6 Airbus Jupiter HC2 have been bought to replace the current Puma's deployed to Cyprus and Brunei, and the new medium support helicopter contract will replace the remaining Puma fleet in 2027 onward.

and the Mayor of London will retract the ULEZ if new medium support helicopter contract comes in.....

cheers

Teetering_Head 9th December 2024 18:30


Originally Posted by chinook240 (Post 11783836)
Confused! I thought Airbus and LM had pulled out, therefore no longer a competition, or is it just poor reporting?

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/conc...pter-timeline/

“The competition has shortlisted Airbus Helicopters UK, Leonardo Helicopters UK, and Lockheed Martin UK, with the evaluation process managed by Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S).

Eagle confirmed: “There are no plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competition… The competition remains sensitive, and the evaluation and approval process must complete before further details, including aircraft numbers, can be confirmed.”



They absolutely have. Sounds like Maria Eagle is reading of a briefing sheet from Q1 2024. Leonardo are the only company to put anything forward for it....

I'm 90% sure that there will be no Puma replacement or NMH.

minigundiplomat 10th December 2024 10:15

I can't see DE&S managing any evaluation process; surely they'll just sole source to Airbus like they have done the last two times. All that evaluation, requirements and value for money malarkey is hard work.

Much easier to just write a cheque to the French.

SLXOwft 10th December 2024 12:17

I think The UK Defence Journal is confusing matters, there was no reference to LM or Airbus still being involved, just that they had received the invitation to negotiate last February'

James Cartlidge asked six questions related to NMH, the civil servant drafting the answer used the same text in five answers for Maria Eagle to sign.

The sixth appeared to be digging about whether Blackhawk is still an option, I wondered if he was thinking about remanufactured ex-US Army pre-Ms . The question was flat-batted away.

Question: "To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, whether he has made an assessment of the potential merits of extending the operational lifespan of the Lockheed Martin UH-60 Black Hawk."

Answer: "The Department has not assessed the potential merits of extending the operational lifespan of the Lockheed Martin UH-60 Black Hawk as the Department does not own any."

[QUOTE]To ask the Secretary of State for Defence:
1) whether his Department plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competitive tender.
2) ... how many platforms his Department intends to procure through the New Medium Helicopter programme, in the context of his decision to decommission 17 Puma helicopters.
3) if he will make an assessment of the potential impact of his decision to retire (a) Chinook heavy transporter helicopters and (b) Puma helicopters on tender scoring for the New Medium Helicopter programme.
4) what his Department's planned timetable is for announcing the award for the New Medium Helicopter contract.
5) if he will make an assessment of the potential impact of his timetable for reaching 2.5% GDP of expenditure on defence on the progress of the New Medium Helicopter programme.

To all of which the answer was:

There are no plans to change the extant New Medium Helicopter competition which started on 27 February 2024 with the release of the Invitation to Negotiate to Airbus Helicopters UK, Leonardo Helicopters UK and Lockheed Martin UK.
The decision to retire the 14 oldest Chinook helicopters and remaining Puma helicopters has no impact on the New Medium Helicopter procurement process. The New Medium Helicopter competition remains sensitive, and the evaluation and approval process must complete before further details, including aircraft numbers, can be confirmed.
The Ministry of Defence is continuing with the established procurement process, managed by Defence Equipment and Support, and the proposal will be evaluated through 2025 when, subject to Government approvals, a contract award is anticipated.
The progress of the New Medium Helicopter programme is not dependent on reaching 2.5% GDP of expenditure on Defence spending.

Northernstar 24th December 2024 11:18


Originally Posted by Rotor_guy (Post 11792693)
While all the mud is getting slung around it’s probably worthwhile stating some key facts to maintain objectivity.

The ordered 189s are behind slated delivery dates. Aircraft not ready due to supply chain delays and aircraft rejected due to acceptance defects. A risk always present when you elect for new state of the art aircraft.

RG

From thread https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/65...sh-sar-15.html

As the usual suspects regurgitate the same narrative all over again: https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-e...-somerset-jobs

NutLoose 24th December 2024 18:43

A fourth entry has entered the market to provide the RAF with a cheap Puma replacement to meet the needs and harsh reality of the UK’s financial predicament, development is ongoing.


Nescafe 30th April 2025 23:28


Originally Posted by chinook240 (Post 11876104)
Looks like the “one horse competition” is drawing to its inevitable conclusion. https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...162808.article

And in another questionable move, oil and gas companies have finalised their acceptance of UH60s for offshore transport out of ABZ.

T28B 1st May 2025 03:47

Not quite the passenger carrying capacity of an S-92.
Do you have an article one can review to understand this decision?

Blackhawk9 1st May 2025 04:44


Originally Posted by Nescafe (Post 11876189)
And in another questionable move, oil and gas companies have finalised their acceptance of UH60s for offshore transport out of ABZ.

somehow I doubt that, no float system, no baggage bay etc best assault helo in the world but not an offshore machine and not civil certified for pax ops..

Nescafe 1st May 2025 05:05

It was a just light hearted comment to draw a comparison to selecting the wrong aircraft for the job required.

212man 1st May 2025 18:38


Originally Posted by Nescafe (Post 11876250)
It was a just light hearted comment to draw a comparison to selecting the wrong aircraft for the job required.

Hey, this is a serious topic in a serious forum - no levity allowed!


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