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Hobart accident
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Originally Posted by SICKorSKI
(Post 9949025)
News breaking now in Tasmania
http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasmania/helicopter-crash-at-hobart-airport/news-story/98f4d15f7807210429eab3333bf89a9b Helicopter came down hard on grass just off runway. Hobart Airport closed to flights. Long weekend in Melbourne due to Melb cup so it’s likely to be busier than usual?? Mjb |
Helicopter crash at Hobart Airport
UPDATED: The aviation watchdog has launched an investigation into the fatal helicopter crash at Hobart Airport and is calling for witnesses. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau said two interstate investigators would shortly travel to the site to start the probe. The fatal crash involved a single engine AS350BA Squirrel helicopter believed to be operated by Rotorlift which performs aerial duties for the state’s emergency services. “A team of two Transport Safety Investigators from Brisbane and Canberra will travel to the site shortly to begin their investigation,” an ATSB spokesperson said. “The ATSB encourages anyone who witnessed the accident to call 1800 020 616.“No further information about the accident is available at this time.” A preliminary report into the air disaster will be handed down in about 30 days. EARLIER: Police say a person has died and another is in a critical condition following a helicopter crash at Hobart Airport. Hobart Airport has been shut down and people have been moved outside. http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/a...815b?width=650 A spokesman for the Australian Transport Safety Bureau confirmed the incident. “The ATSB has been advised that there has been an accident at Hobart Airport involving a helicopter with two people aboard,” the spokesman said. “We understand that emergency services are in attendance and we will be gathering more information before deciding whether to launch an investigation.” Witness Adele Khoury said the helicopter came in from the Pittwater area, and was flying about tree height before performing a loop and descending into a nose dive. “There was a puff of smoke,” she said. Emergency vehicles have converged on the scene, including two ambulances. One ambulance was seen speeding back towards Hobart city just after 6pm. Mrs Khoury said the crash occurred about 5.30pm. |
was flying about tree height before performing a loop and descending into a nose dive. |
Performing a loop from tree top height doesn't leave much room for error, especially in a helicopter...
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 9949221)
Performing a loop from tree top height doesn't leave much room for error, especially in a helicopter...
To be taken with a grain of salt. If anything like a “loop” was performed, I’d suggest the “maneuver” may have been associated with some sort of control malfunction. Pure conjecture on my part. RIP the person that has died. Early reports are it may have been someone quite well known in the Tasmanian industry. My thoughts are with those that are directly affected. A very sad time. |
Local police expect to interview the survivor in 24 to 48 hours....they should be able to work out what went wrong quite soon I would expect. Prangs at airport boundaries from arriving helicopters tend to be fuel starvation related, however from the description in this instance it seems like loss of control for whatever reason...
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 9949347)
however from the description in this instance it seems like loss of control for whatever reason...
If anything like a “loop” was performed, I’d suggest the “maneuver” may have been associated with some sort of control malfunction |
Somehow I don't think a pilot would attempt a loop in view of the control tower. I think safe to assume the witness report of a loop was actually something else. The police said it just suddenly nose dived into the ground.
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For loop, I’d read orbit.
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Posts on Facebook are saying RIP Roger Corbin :( Sad to see its a long time stalwart of the Aussie industry.
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From ABC news: "Inspector John Ward said it appeared to break in half and plummet to the ground from a height of 200 metres."
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Tragic, very tragic!!!! RIP Roger :-( You were a fantastic guy, who was very thorough about your business ways, who built up a great business based on your skills & knowledge!
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Originally Posted by growahead
(Post 9949786)
From ABC news: "Inspector John Ward said it appeared to break in half and plummet to the ground from a height of 200 metres."
In response to a question about damage he said it had fallen 200 meters the tail had broken off and that it was a write off. Press conference here, relevant section begins at 3.10 mark. (Edit: new direct link) https://www.facebook.com/themercury....5931747948408/ Spoke to ABC Hobart, who said their reporting was based on the above 9pm press conference. Mjb |
Originally Posted by Nubian
(Post 9949571)
That's probably why such a manoeuvre is prohibited in this aircraft in the first place......:ouch:
Not a control malfunction, as this WILL happen to a 350 if the rotordisc is being loaded with enough G. It is flying the aircraft outside it's approved envelope, but it will not be the first time it has been done with an accident as a result either. If the report is correct about flying low and then a loop, I'd say a good yank in the cyclic when coming around the loop to recover realising being too low, would leave you with NO escape and hitting the ground as a result..... My suggestion was more along the lines of a servo breaking/becoming detached, causing a manovour that resembled a loop to an unknowledgable bystander. Again; Pure conjecture. |
Possible loss of control?
Like this one? https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...21X00315&key=1
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1 Attachment(s)
Why remove the name ??? Its all over Facebook with people expressing condolences. And also Hobart newspapers.
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Originally Posted by KiwiNedNZ
(Post 9949964)
Why remove the name ??? Its all over Facebook with people expressing condolences. And also Hobart newspapers.
Be careful pasting facebook claims to other forums as litigation may result. |
Originally Posted by What Red Line?
(Post 9949927)
Like this one? https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...21X00315&key=1
For the third time: pure conjecture on my part, and every pilots nightmare. RIP |
Actually Flying Bingi the posts on Facebook were made by people who I have known in this industry for about 20 years so pretty confident that what they are saying is factual. Cheers.
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VH-BAA
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2017-109/ Deepest sympathy to Allana & the girls, RotorLift staff, family and friends. Hoping that the injured pilot makes a speedy recovery. RIP Roger RW |
Looking at the photo of the remains of the helicopter it's quite remarkable that anybody survived that accident.
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Such a tragedy....Rest In Peace
Sounds like some catastrophic failure, leading to the impact? |
Could a hydraulic failure cause this on a 350 ?
R |
Rest in Peace Roger
Rest in Peace Roger, and condolences to all family.
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Originally Posted by RINKER
(Post 9950415)
Could a hydraulic failure cause this on a 350 ?
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Thanks gullibell. I understand that but I meant total loss of hydraulics.
I've only flown R44 and SA341 with hydraulics off for training which were Manageable. But I thought the 350 was more difficult. R |
Originally Posted by RINKER
(Post 9951130)
Thanks gullibell. I understand that but I meant total loss of hydraulics.
I've only flown R44 and SA341 with hydraulics off for training which were Manageable. But I thought the 350 was more difficult. R Failures are necessarily manageable. |
Originally Posted by Twist & Shout
(Post 9951227)
The hydraulic system on th AS350 relies on a rubber belt.
Failures are necessarily manageable. |
RIP
350 hydraulic failure (I've had one) is no fun but manageable, especially by high time experienced Pilots. Jack-stall or servo-transparency is also easy to manage which only occurs at high power setting in high G maneuvers. Approaching a landing the lever would be going down, no high G's so no chance of jack-stall. Something else went profoundly wrong, some catastrophic failure leading to a lose of control. A training maneuver gone wrong is out of the question for RC.
Rest in Peace Roger & condolences to the Family |
Update from ABC
33 year old pilot released from hospital A 33-year-old pilot John Osborne has been released from the Royal Hobart Hospital as aviation authorities continue to investigate the helicopter crash at Hobart Airport. Fatal helicopter plunge: Investigators probe Hobart crash site where rescue pilot Roger Corbin died - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) Another Update Hobart helicopter crash survivor John Osborne 'recovering well' after tragedy that killed Roger Corbin - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) |
Originally Posted by Vertical Freedom
(Post 9951252)
Something else went profoundly wrong, some catastrophic failure leading to a lose of control. A training maneuver gone wrong is out of the question for RC.
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Apparently they were doing hydraulics off training when control was lost for yet unknown reason.
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 9952276)
Apparently they were doing hydraulics off training when control was lost for yet unknown reason.
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Has the lucky survivor been able to say what happened?
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Has the lucky survivor been able to say what happened? |
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ATSB report
ATSB report VH-BAAhttp://https://www.atsb.gov.au/publi...r/ao-2017-109/
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Preliminary report Published: 18 December 2017 At about 1635 Eastern Daylight‑saving Time[1] on 7 November 2017, a Eurocopter AS350BA (AS350) helicopter, registered VH-BAA, departed Hobart Airport, Tasmania for a local training area to the northeast. On board were a pilot and instructor and the flight was the third training flight of an AS350 helicopter-type endorsement for the pilot. The endorsement training was conducted over a two-day period. It included ground school training, and three flights that formed the practical component of the training syllabus. One instructor had assessed the first two flights but, since the third focussed on emergency procedure training, the occurrence instructor elected to fly with the pilot. The pilot held a Commercial Pilot (Helicopter) Licence and a valid Class 1 Aviation Medical Certificate. The pilot had experience flying other turbine helicopter types, on various types of operations. The pilot’s existing low-level and sling approvals, which were reportedly held on a foreign licence, were also to be assessed during the AS350 type endorsement. Following arrival in the training area, the pilot’s general helicopter handling and low-level flight were assessed. At about 1715, the pilots reported to air traffic control that operations in the training area were complete and requested a clearance back into the Hobart Airport control zone, to conduct practice emergencies. The approach to the airport reportedly involved conducting a simulated hydraulic system failure to the helicopter training area X-Ray (Figure 1). Training Area X-Ray was located adjacent to and west of the main runway and was familiar to the pilot, as this area was used in the previous day’s training. Figure 1: Approximate flight path of the helicopter (not to scale), showing the approach to the X-Ray training area, where the helicopter slowed before making an abrupt left turn and impacting terrain. http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5773812....jpg?width=463 Source: Airservices Australia, modified by ATSB The instructor reportedly announced the simulated failure to the pilot just prior to commencing the approach. The pilot responded to the simulated failure by stabilising the helicopter and reducing the airspeed to about 60 kt, in accordance with the manufacturer’s hydraulic failure procedure detailed in the aircraft’s flight manual. The flight manual emphasised that, without hydraulic assistance, the flight controls exhibited force feedback requiring the pilot to exert additional force on the controls to maintain 60 kt in level flight. The manual also stated that, after transitioning to the recommended safety speed range, the second phase of the hydraulic failure procedure was to transition to slow run‑on landing[2] (at around 10 kt) via a flat final approach in to the wind. The pilot reported that, as the helicopter decelerated and descended towards the landing area, they noted the additional control forces required. A video camera installed at the airport recorded footage of the helicopter’s final approach. As the helicopter descended toward training area X-Ray, it initially appeared to be controlled and in a flatter than normal approach profile. The helicopter then appeared to slow into a high hover about 30 ft above the ground. Seconds later, it commenced an abrupt nose-down turn to the left and impacted the ground. The training procedure section of the helicopter flight manual cautioned pilots to: …not attempt to carry out hover flight or any low speed manoeuvre without hydraulic pressure assistance. The intensity and direction of the control feedback forces will change rapidly. This will result in excessive pilot workload, poor aircraft control, and possible loss of control. The impact forces caused significant damage to the cockpit area, particularly the left pilot side (Figure 2). Figure 2: Damage to the helicopter showing significant impact damage to the cockpit area and left landing skid tip, consistent with a left nose-down attitude on impact. http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5773813....jpg?width=463 Source: ATSB Seated on the left side, the instructor sustained fatal injuries, while the pilot seated on the right was seriously injured. The investigation is continuing, and will analyse the evidence obtained during the on-site investigation phase. Additional work will include a review of the:
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