North Sea strike?
 

24 hours since BALPA balloted on pilot strike action and no Pruner comment??
Turkeys voting for Christmas or common sense prevailing?

HeliHub North Sea pilots consider strike action

I can assure you that the downturn has hit the Dancopter pilots harder than most, or probably more than any other operator. Until recently there were 70 pilots employed in Dancopter, and later this year the aim will be less than 25 pilots left, to fly for the Maersk Oil and Gas contract with the 225. That is 1/3 left, and it is not because the guys or the company mishandled the job or the Shell contract.

Some have been lucky to find jobs elsewhere, ad hoc, temporary employment contracts etc. with terms and conditions not by near what they use to have. Some are without a job, and looking into a job market more dry than what is has been for decades. Bristow are letting go of 66 pilots, CHC Helicopterservice 19, so it will take years and 80-100$/barrel until we are back to what we had until last year for the pilots employed - I believe that the T&Cs we use to have, or a few still have, will go shortly and be gone forever.

NORTH SEA PILOTS SHOW STRONG SUPPORT FOR STRIKE ACTION
20/08/2015


North Sea Helicopter Pilots have indicated strong support for strike action if helicopter companies do not make serious improvements in the way they deal with job losses. They have also highlighted the serious impact on safety the threat of redundancy is having.

In the survey conducted by the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA), pilots accepted the downturn in the industry meant jobs would go, but were frustrated at the way management are going about it.
Pilots want the helicopter companies to improve voluntary redundancy arrangements to try and prevent as many compulsory job losses as possible. And they believe the companies are not valuing the experience of senior pilots highly enough in deciding who may need to be made redundant.

BALPA General Secretary, Jim McAuslan, said: “We are not being unreasonable. We know the downturn in the North Sea is going to hit jobs, but the way the companies are going about it is causing massive frustration, borne out by the very high turnout and strong ‘yes’ vote in this ballot conducted over just four days.

“In the event management do not substantially shift their position BALPA’s National Executive Council will be meeting early next month to consider a move to a formal strike vote, something we are still hoping to avoid.”
A strong and worrying message from the survey was concern over safety. Pilots reported that the threat hanging over them, their families and their colleagues, was having serious unintended effects on their ability to sleep and concentrate.

One pilot commented: “In the past two weeks…there has been a noticeable change of focus in the cockpit. Crews are concerned and distracted and this is reflected in an increase of mistakes and lack of awareness. The threat of being ‘at risk’ is dominating the mindset of the majority of our pilots.”

Another said: “Do we really want pilots to be worried how their training costs and mortgage will be paid on a dark and stormy night?”

And a third said: “Radio calls are being missed. Pilots’ heads are not in the cockpit.”

Jim McAuslan continued: “Safety must come first. We are not saying that helicopter companies are indifferent to these issues, but we would be remiss if we didn’t highlight the stress and pressure that pilots are feeling. We will be passing these concerns on to the Civil Aviation Authority who regulate aviation in the North Sea.”

For more information contact:
Nancy Jackson
Media and External Relations Officer
Phone: 0208 476 4046
Email: [email protected]

Are you guys serious?

The Offshore-pilots are making more money than anyone else in this industry-for basically watching the autopilot do their job (yeah, i can hear the uproar-and i am old enough not to care).

This industry has had its ups and downs since day 1-you can either live with this, or get a job in an office (for probably the same money the guy driving your cab to your heliport gets)..


This industry got hit hard by the low oil price...but i assume its a great idea hitting it even harder by initiating a strike......so the companies that already have lost lots of money can lose some more...

:ugh:



If that´s really the concern, you got 1) the wrong job, 2) the wrong attitude, and shouldn´t be in the cockpit at all...

Oops - some chips there - missed the point - no one said it is a hard job just why are helicopter operators 'allowed' to dismiss crews with no redundancy - despite T&Cs being agreed before hand?
Employment law never appears to work when it should.
Economics - that's why jumbo pilots get paid more than regionals carrying 80-pax and why NS pilots get paid more than robbo pilots.
However, regardless of what you fly, you plan for the future on the contract you have in front of you - but if that contract is essentially torn-up due to the prevalent attitude of the operators - 'because they know you also have liabilities - then you are left with having no income regardless of how low/high the oil price goes.
Personally, I hope price drops further and we all get back to reality - where a taxi doesn't get away with charging 20-quid for a 5-mile ride !!
PS I would a significant proportion of those suffering have done the FI route and thought they were on the road to paying-off their training debts so I suggest you wind your neck in before you make of an idiot of yourself ;-)

**Cough** Bullsh1t.

This :-

is not the same as this:-

and this:-

So are people being dismissed or are they being made redundant? and what was the expectation?? Is a job in the NS one for life or are the redundancy payments so great? Actually given the position CHC are in I'm not sure paying any pilots they hope to loose huge payments is realistic?

Johni, you can either understand what it is like to face an uncertain financial future, possibly with a mortgage to pay and kids to feed.........or you can't.

I got made redundant in 1991 when jobs were very scarce. My Company treated me fairly giving me clear notice and enough money to "survive" for 6 months and I had only been in the job for 18 months.

I was very very lucky and got a job within a month of the redundancy. Paid much less and I would say it took 10 years to recover back to where I was. For me and my family it was horrible despite the fair treatment and the Company's strict observation of our industrial agreements.

Normally on the NS it is last in first out. This means tha identification of those affected is quick and easy and usually they are junior so the managers can ensure they fly with someone secure until their runout date. This is probably the safest way to do it. Of course the Company will want high earners at the top to go to maximise the recuperation of revenue and they normally offer a voluntary package to attract some of those people.

However, when a Company boldly announces that they will pick and choose their victims, and therefore everyone is at risk, not only is the collective stress horrendous but there is no obvious way to manage crewing that assures at least one person in the cockpit is not worried.

For the usual heros posting that the pilot should suck it up...has it ever happened to you? If it has and it did not worry you or you enjoyed the experience then post away. For the rest, recognise at least from all those CRM seminars you have done that stress, caused by life change, can and will reduce the performance and the safety of those affected by this situation.

For me, I offer my support and solidarity to those affected and wish you all the best. I hope things turn around soon and the knife does not cut so deep.

I am dismayed by the morons posting here and almost gloating at what is happening. It rather proves the point that amongst our brethren is a whole group of p**cks who cannot contain there bitter vitriolic prose knowing full well how it would affect those concerned. Hueyracer, you are in that group!

DB

@Double Bogey - like.

Are people being bitter? Are they gloating? Or are they merely asking a question and getting sanctimonious garbage in reply??

I know it comes as a huge surprise to you but in 2015 people loose their jobs. Its not nice and sometimes its not fair. However when you look at the stock price of these entities you'd be a total idiot if you had woken up to the issues in the last weeks. In fact perhaps the people who owned CHC stock at $10 are hurting as much?? I digress.

Are these guys asking for some kind of immunity from ever loosing a job??

Investing in the stock market is practically gambling, and in most cases that's exactly what it is, so why should gamblers be immune from redundancy? what is the relevance of gambling in stocks in relation to redundancy? None what so ever. Pointless agreement.

Should not gamble more than you can afford to lose anyway!

Yeah why worry about the people who actually own the business... All those investor conferences at CHC, Bristow and EADS all start with "welcome gambling mugs..."

Probably the relevance here is that you work for a company where the fundamentals have weakened and your own companies stock has tanked... Some might call that a big fukking red flag?? Although don't tell the pilots...

So Johni, the question stands! Have you ever suffered a redundancy and witnessed first hand what it feels like. What it means to you and your family (assuming you have one)?

Life is full of eventualities and unexpected changes....
Girl friends getting pregnant, family members die, people getting divorced, others get cancer...

Life is bitter-be prepared for it.
CRM seems to be the excuse to almost everything nowadays, and "Safety concerns" seem to be the holy grail to anyone trying to achieve anything...

I couldn´t care less-been there, gone through that, and learned my lesson.
Did not go on holiday twice a year, did not buy a new car every 3 years, but put money aside and-when made "redundant"-was prepared and did not have to call in for "flight safety" and CRM....and i never made the big bucks flying NS...

But i have had pilots coming from the NS trying to get a job down here-either for Utility or Onshore-remote area work..and you know what?
None of them could fly, despite having thousands of hours "in the difficult north sea"...but that´s not the point.

The point is:
You cannot take all your life, and then call in for sympathy when your luck ends......

I don´t mean to sound harsh-but we don´t call the offshore-guys "Pretty pilots" for no reason!

Pitts you need to look at the definition of sociopath! A person incapable of empathy!

Hueyracer, maybe you would not do too well on a night ARA in a cluttered field in poor weather and high wind. Courses for horses!

If you call working "taking" then your view of life is not the same as mine. Whatever you may think, Getting up at 04:30 in the morning to pound the radials in the dark, miserable weather feels a lot like work?

DB forget you and me... Tell me what exactly are these pilots asking for?

Getting up at 0430 is something "special" for you?

Then how about the doctors working 24 hours shifts, the bakers getting up at 0200 to make your bread, the engineers preparing your aircraft starting at 0300?

Flying IFR is one of the simplest things in aviation (assuming you are IFR-rated, of course)....

But it´s not about the "difficulties" here...its about the pilots taking away the big bucks, then suddenly complaining when that comes to an end......

What do they actually want to achieve?

The companies have already lost money-that´s why they got rid of "expenses" (aka pilots)...
Not flying means they will not make money-or even have to pay compensation.....aka losing more money...anyone not understanding this should not be in a cockpit....so be careful what you guys wish for......there are always pilots waiting to get that job for less money...

You are dismissed if you are made 'redundant' but not given your redundancy.
The ease at which companies can chop and change when convenient to them is a prime Flight Safety concern.
Why would you continue to work for a company that has told you how they intend to dismiss you as cheaply as possible?

Are those companies actually "in breach" of contracts?
Do the contracts the pilots have actually SAY that they are paid compensation or "redundancy"?

Or did the just ASSUME that this should be the case, as they are now working for the "big shots"?

Well two things - if you have a contract that reflects you'd get paid X++ on being made redundant then you have a legal remedy if it's not paid. However has that happened here??

On the "why would you work for.." question then why threaten to quit?? Just quit. A bigger question is why continue to work for a company that does that to others.... Then they came for me...

In 1999 my NS employer said they were going to make 40 pilots over the age of 55 redundant and called for volunteers. There was a sweetener package for those who volunteered. The snag was that if you didn't volunteer and were 'selected' then you only got statutory redundancy.

I was one of those who 'volunteered' as I recognised that I would probably be selected anyway - the second time in my flying career that I had been made redundant - and, having been cautious and not bought the fancy house and car, was relieved to be able quit the industry after 38 years, 24 of them on the NS, and I've never looked back. 16 years on and I hope that management changes might mean that the 60 pilots at risk there today might fare better than being given similar callous options to those we received - sadly I somehow doubt it. I really feel for the guys at risk and it's a hard lesson that loyalty in employment is rarely a two way thing.

Democritus I remember your case(s) very well as it was really the first time that we all realised that even employment law would ultimately not recognise our industrial agreements.

PITTS - I will answer your question once but seeing as you are dysfunctional I doubt you will understand. The pilots are balloting because the Company has instigated a redundancy policy that ignores the existing industrial agreement. An agreement the pilots have followed faithfully in the hope the Company would do the same. Without such agreements, rosters, pay, conditions would be back to Victorian times. Such is the level of social intelligence amongst the average NS Manager.

As I already stated, telling everyi pilot they are all at risk is Fundementally unsafe. No one in the cockpit is immune from worry about their future. I hope the CAA can fins a legislative stick to beat the management over the head with.

There is only 1 sure thing and that is that things will ramp up again, although it may take a while. Those Pilots being made redundant will be needed again.

Its short sighted "quarterly cash return" style American Management that thinks its smart to make Pilots redundant when they will be needed again.

So, if there is real solidarity among NS Pilots and an intelligent Union, why not ask for volunteers among those who may retire and others who may want to go, then go to Management and suggest keeping everyone else employed at 66% salary.

Everyone stays current, everyone can at least eat and the employer is well placed when the upturn comes.

Reality check
 

You're not serious, are you? Considering the salaries North Sea pilots earn, you're hardly likely to be heading straight to food banks like a great many of the population have to when they experience redundancy. If you've blown the lot on an oversized house, a flash car and sending the kids to private school then what sympathy do you deserve when you could have been sensibly saving some for a rainy day? You do realise that you work in an industry that suffers periodic downturns, don't you? You could have been subscribing to an income protection policy - they do exist.

Please don't diminish your argument or your standing by suggesting that poverty is around the corner. Genuine poverty exists in both Britain and abroad. You should see it.

Satsuma

Keep your skin on. "Got to eat" is a figure of speech or a saying, like "rice in the rice bowl". You need to get out more. I am not pleading poverty for myself, I am not directly affected or threatened by redundancy (yet)

Johni

My point exactly. All this hand wringing on here is totally hollow. Pilot A doesn't care about Pilot B, there is no solidarity, its dog eat dog.

DB- thanks for the reply.

If these agreements had previously been demonstrated not to be upheld in law why persist with them?? After that experience was there no appetite for change?

Although to be fair few focus on their redundancy package when they sign their contract as a hopeful new starter on day 1.

As for not telling pilots they are at risk of loosing jobs, at Bristow you have a point but CHC's position is different. See what redundancy packages look like when the company you work for goes bust.

As a sympathetic observer of all this, and one who is trying to understand how a strike could possibly help, I am at a disadvantage in not knowing how the compulsory element is to be administered. From the foregoing, I gather it is not LIFO, but a percentage across the whole seniority spectrum, is that right? And is it just statutory redundancy that is being offered?

Will someone spell it out for those who are now on the outside? If unwilling to state details because of confidentiality, anyone who recognises my name can PM me.

Advice on current 'best practice' available here:

Selection criteria for redundancy and avoiding redundancies | Acas advice and guidance | Acas

Sounds like you may have some bitter experience thereof, johni !

Who would you get "rid off", if you´d be the employer here?

I would also cut down on expensed-and kick those out who made my life difficult before.....

Pittsextra
It is exactly what happened on the Norwich Shell/Dancopter case and I would suggest will happen again a bit further North if not countered in the courts

Must admit I agree with johni here. If you follow the list presented by Variable Load, then it is nothing but "cherry picking" for the management to keep the employees they like, and ousts those they don't. It is neither transparent nor objective.

Sorry johni ... I was simply being sarcastic about your cynicism !

I do have an understanding about what HR may do on the managers' behalf ....

I am not NS, I do not have the best, yet lowest paid, job like some here - but defend those who have raised their standard and consider striking to maintain their conditions on the most boring of, yet well-paid, helicopter jobs!

I am at a loss to understand where're notion has comefromthat a NS salary will buy a fancy house, car and send kids to private schools.

The average NS pilot clears between 2.5 and 5.5k per month. Living in Aberdeen a modest 4 bed house mortgage for a person without family money will burn between 1500-2000 per month. By the time all fixed costs are met probably 2.5-3.0 k has already gone.

School fees amount to approx 800-1200 per month.

Having put 2 kids through private school my NS salary certainly could not cope alone with that burden. I know. I have lived that dream! And the one thing I did not have was a flying debt to service.

I have also suffered a redundancy with three small kids in 1991 right after after the interest rates had peaked at over 15%. At its height my mortgage payment exceeded my net salary. My minimal savings were already depleted. It sucked. It sucked really badly. My experience gives me intimate first hand knowledge of what these people are going through and the stress and worry, embarrassment and feeling of hopelessness that is ever present until something positive happens.

For you, quite frankly, idiots out there, posting utter garbage and expressing punitive opinions of those individuals affected. Shame on you! You do not deserve to called "Rotorheads" you clearly have no clue what these processes are like and how it feels to lose a job,that for the most part, you have worked hard at and done all that was asked of you.

Hueyracer. Sure the world is a tough place and I hear you comments five by five. However I have no respect for someone who cannot sympathise with a man or woman faced with the prospect of unemployment. Whatever the circumstances may be. That's because I know exactly how that feels and even though I personally have many freinds on the NS and some who would consider not to be my friend, I feel for them all. No one deserves what is about to happen.

Huey, also you can scoff at offshore pilots. Like all onshore pilots who think flying offshore ops is a piece piss. But let me remind you that my colleagues spend 98% of their flight time flying over hostile open water. They cannot pop it in a field when a light comes on. Smoke a tab and wait for the ground crew. They spend most of their flight time knowing that if they cannot stay in the air, survival becomes a serious issue. That, above all, is the reason they earn a higher salary than you.

I note that there are very few NS pilots posting on this thread. Maybe fear keeps them quite but I suspect many are reading the sad drivelyouguys post.

Johni, your lack of solidarity for your former colleagues says more about you than them. By your own admission you have never faced redundancy and yet you offer sanctimonious, unsympathetic offerings. Shame on you sir!

Pitts. As you seem so informed of the CHC financial situation I hope we can agree on one point. The situation in CHC financially, bears absolutley no relation to the work rate, dedication and proffessionalism of those employees at the coal face. It is the work of Executive Management and shareholder expectation. Can we at least agree on this and therefore release just a modicum of empathy for the coalface CHC employee that I suspect resides in your heart!

Ah Johni, you finally moderate your tone. Glad to see you have a heart after all!

Variable Load. The list reference you provide in no way is intended as a substitute for long established bi-lateral industrial agreements.

Agreements right now that are being wholly disregarded by one party. That is precisely why the pilots have balloted for strike action. What other possible response could management expect after sticking two fingers up to the industrial agreement.

At the end of the day, failure to honour these agreements leaves a state of anarchy.

Whilst I realise management sieze the opportunity to cull those pilots they consider undesirable, the net effect is a serious degradation in ongoing safety of the flight operation. Good luck with that!

Well you did at least two out of three. Sorry but we all know North Sea pilots get paid a fortune, you can't pretend it's not the case. If you're earning those kind of big bucks but can't make ends meet you've made some pretty bad choices along the way. My next door neighbour was over the moon the other day because he's got himself a job in a local factory earning minimum wage. He manages alright on pennies.

Satsuma = an orange "Lemon"

Very impressive. Well done.