Sav: Denis lost his left eye when motor cycling racing in the Isle of Man when he was about 29 years old. After that he was only approved to fly in the right hand seat. The 500M has the captain in the right hand seat unlike the civil version, so he bought one to mainly fly in Scotland. I believe it was the only one sold to a civilian. He also had to have a commercial pilot with him as the Irish authorities didn't think he could see the T & P gauges! Before take off in his 206, he used to say " are those funny needles in the green?" & we would reply yes or no as applicable! Surprisingly he flew very well & I never had to grab the controls. A charming man with a charming wife!:ok:

.
Nigel thanks; like the other Ferranti members he sounds like a real character. I'm still trying to identify which military airfield it was that Denis screamed over at low level in one of his 500's after which he promptly called-up the ATCO's inviting them to a bash in the city!

In terms of images for Denis' aircraft, and thanks to Shane's recent additions, I think we are just left with his two Brantly's: EI-AVK and EI-ARU.

In the process of trying to find these we happened upon Sebastian's B2 (below) which I had been trying to track down for some time:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4...son%252529.jpg
Brantly B2B G-ASEW at Oxford Kidlington on 29th June 1978 (Photo: Peter Nicholson)

This craft was imported by BEAS in February 1963 and sold to Sebastian in May the same year. Sebastian sold it back to BEAS in April 1967 by which time he had acquired a Bell 47J2A (G-ATFV). Four months later he would take delivery of the fourth JetRanger registered in the UK, G-AVSN.

Here ya go Sav from Flight International 10 June 78
 

.
Shane: Grazie mille! Much appreciated.

My godfather must have engaged Dismore to dispose of BAKX and this is presumably the ad to which Castle Motors responded.

KX was a tidy ship in her day.

Tidy ship
 

Yep I sat in her in 1991, nice tan leather seats, with a bottle of the good stuff under one of them too

.
Over on Nostalgia we are discussing some of the history behind Scotland's smaller helicopter operators (most interesting).

Ferranti were also represented in Scotland:

"In 1943 Ferranti opened a factory at Crewe Toll in Edinburgh to manufacture Gyro Gunsights for the Spitfire aircraft. After the war this business (Ferranti Scotland) would grow to employ 8,000 staff in 8 locations, becoming the birth place of the Scottish electronics industry."

G-BFYA
 

I found this clipping with a photo of G-BFYA with Helicopter Hire, think that's why I saved it, being the one that started the Strathclyde Police aviation unit.
Also Heli - Leeds, a good variety of JR's between the two of them, and a Westland WG 30.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5119/...926fe18d_z.jpg

Wigan

Ferranti Tribute Site
 

I've received a number of PM's quizzing me on the expected launch date for the Ferranti site which, admittedly, was slated to have occurred earlier in the year. What I can report is that much of the work is completed; such as the design of the site's page templates and collation of the open-source material. Contributions from a number of PPRuNe members as well as from various aviation photographers have also been gratefully received.

However, the crucial material remains in the UK, some stored in the village of Withyham, East Sussex, some in London and some in Manchester. In addition to collecting this material I must also visit/interview a number of people including one or more members of the Ferranti family and others familiar with Ferranti's former operations. All in all I need a good two weeks in the UK and which, to-date, I have been unable to achieve given that this project is a hobby and not business-related, ie. a relatively low priority.

Having said this, I will make time to come over and do what is needed but, while my home is in Italy I spend nearly all my time divided between the Middle East and Africa and this does make it slightly less convenient to 'pop back' as it were.

I am thrilled that there are some who are looking forward to reading about Ferranti. The company (helicopter division) was formed as a legal entity for a little under a decade but, though it was a small and short-lived affair it left a footprint upon the UK's helicopter industry, a footprint which, I might add, was almost swept-away by the winds of time. This site will, I hope, in some small way help preserve the efforts of those who, for a time, were known as Ferranti Helicopters.

Needless to say, when we are ready to go, I shall advise accordingly.

The Widgeon
 

I recall Savoia, you mentioned your godfather flew the Westland Widgeon for Sebastian De Ferranti.
You mentioned it was a bit of a wild stallion, any idea why that was the case? Were they more trouble than the Dragonfly they were derived from?

As they were so rare Im quite interested in any stories about Widgeons and those who flew them.

There was one based at the old Iona hangar in Dublin around 1958 for a while operating under Shamrock Helicopters but that was shortlived.

Anyone have any other Widgeon stories?

S

Dear Shane

I'm not a Widgeon expert by any means so some of what I mention here may be in need of verification/correction - I'm trawling-up conversations with the Colonel from when I was a 'wee lad' as he would say!

One of Sebastian de Ferranti's first rotorcraft was the Westland S-51 Widgeon. The aircraft was used to test a variety of instruments being manufactured by Ferranti Electronics (from their Bracknell factory) which produced, among other things; flight instrument packages (ie. VSI, AH, ASI, turn and slip etc.), auto-stabilisation (SAS), flight director guidance and auto-pilot coupling. The craft was also utilised as Sebastian's personal mount.

As with most of Ferranti's 'self-flying' clients, Sebastian took-up my godfather's recommendation of having a professional pilot 'at hand' to accompany him on most flights. Col. Bob believed that while many private flyers are, without question, capable - the pressures of commanding industry combined with hectic schedules on top of transporting oneself about the country by helicopter on a daily basis did not always make for the best of ingredients. Sebastian had no qualms about this and, as with several other 'self-flying' clients, appreciated someone performing the daily checks and having the craft running and ready so that all they needed to do was hop-in a 'have a go' as it were.

After a few malt whisky's (the Colonel's preferred tipple was the Glenlivet by Smith of at least 12 years maturity - and woe betide the one who dared adding water - an ice cube or two was sometimes permitted however) Col. Bob would sometimes reenact his days flying the Widgeon and which usually took the form of him sitting on the edge of his armchair (from his home on the hill just above Churchill's beloved Chartwell) and kicking his legs at full extension while elevating his left arm to his shoulder and thrusting his right arm fully forward (this was meant to demonstrate the movements necessary to effect the take-off)!

Of course I don't really know how much manual effort was required to control the Widgeon but I do remember him saying that the chaps at Ferranti (or was it Westlands - memory serves me not here) coming up with a bungee contraption which the pilot could loop about the cyclic to ease some of the required control forces (especially for longer journeys).

I do also know that Sebastian was 'relieved' when the Colonel purchased the Bell J2A as this was significantly lighter on the controls.

As I say, I am no Widgeon expert but my understanding was this it differed from the Dragonfly in that it had the running-gear of the Westland Whirlwind installed and which makes me think that the Dragonfly was probably even more of a 'beast' to fly than the Widgeon (poor Navy chaps .. and of course there were a couple with the RAF).

I've mentioned before that I'm not too keen on posting the Ferranti craft on PPRuNe as I am trying to save these images for the site (now delayed until I can get back to Blighty to scan the remaining material) but I'm posting one image of the Ferranti Widgeon for you here:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-k...iot%252529.jpg
Ferranti's Westland S-51 (Series 2) Widgeon as seen at Farnborough on 11th September 1964. (Photo - with the kind permission of Ken Elliott)

From Ferranti's, G-APVD was sold on to Miss Gill Aldam [read my godfather's dear friend the late John Crewdson/Helicopter Hire] and from there to another one of my gadfather's friends, ex-AAC flyer Andrew Walters of International Messengers (who later bought G-BBEU and G-OIML).

Brgds

Sav


.

The Widgeon
 

Excellent post as usual Savoia, including a great pic. Really interesting to hear of the Colonels recollections of flying the rare beast.

Hears a few clips that the BBC recorded featuring a few internal and external Widgeon sounds among others.
Online Helicopter, Westland Widgeon Sound Effects - Download Helicopter, Westland Widgeon Sound Effects - 5.1 Surround Sound Helicopter, Westland Widgeon Tracks - Page 1

Some of the other recordings including the Sycamore and even the Fairey Rotodyne.
Helicopter Sound Effects - Online Helicopter Sound Effects - Download Helicopter Sound Effects - 5.1 Surround Sound Helicopter Tracks Page 1

That's the Widgeon I had a fly in at Farnborough 1964; can't remember the pilot's name. Surprisingly smooth, especially after the S51.

I am surprised that the Widgeon is described as such a pig to fly. I have no experience myself with the helicopter but in conversations with a certain Charlie Verry who flew Dragonflys in Malaya I think the description fits the older helicopter.
He said you could always tell a Dragonfly pilot by his dragging his left hand knukles along the floor. He described the bungee arrangement around the cockpit and there was also a pilot operated weight on the floor that was a C of G control. He picked up a Major in a jungle clearing one day and what this Major had in his case he didn't know but on take off he ran out of aft cyclic authority. Circling slowly around the clearing he shouted at this Major to throw the bag out. He wouldn't do this, it was probably full of gold, so the next time the pad came round he told the Major to jump out; which he did.

I spent a lot of time on the Whirlwind and if the Widgeon used the S55 control system that would have been hydraulic with a sloppy stick with no aerodynamic feedback. The only attempt to provide some sort of 'feel' were adjustable friction pads at the base of the cyclic. Looking at the picture one sees one glaring warning: Three main rotor blades, three tail rotor blades, three undercarriage wheels. It all adds up to ground resonance a la Sycamore.

Resonance
 

Slightly off thread (apologies) but I wonder if the Alouette III suffered from ground resonance, anyone know?

Shane

Not being an Alouette III flyer I cannot answer you with ceritiude but I am reasonably confident that the craft would not have suffered with a 'problem' of ground resonance per se.

What I think one might be able to assume is that as with all three-or-more bladed rotorcraft, the Alouette III would have been susceptible to ground resonance. If I remember rightly, three-bladed craft with tricycle undercarriage were most susceptible to this phenomenon and which, if so, would have meant that Alouette III drivers may have needed to exercise a little more vigilance while earthbound with rotors running.

A brief re-cap on ground resonance:

Some examples of ground resonance:

Both of these clips have done the rounds on Rotorheads - the first shows a Gazelle which seems to have entered the 'shakes' as a result of the landing (perhaps it was a little firm) but I think on the Gazelle thread someone mentioned that there was a lever which operated some kind of damper for the landing gear (intriguing) and which may not have been engaged.



The second vid is a straightforward 'test' where a Chook is allowed to shake itself to bits. Presumably maintenance were fed up with this airframe!

Ground Resonance - Side View - YouTube

And finally, given that you are from the Emerald Isle, that you seem to have an interest in rotorcraft from times past and that you've mentioned the Alouette III, I submit this image (which I think was originally posted on the Bristow thread):

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2...4/scan0016.jpg
An Irish Helicopters Alouette III 'somewhere sometime' with a Bristow Whirlwind in the background

Rgds

Sav

The 3 blade shuffle
 

Another great post Sav, excellent explanation.

And heres what happened to this Alouette

"In December 2005, an Aerospatiale Alouette III landing at EscalanteNational Monument in Utah suffered ground resonance that tore the helicopter apart in four seconds. All aboard survived "

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...84943834_b.jpg

Nice image of EI-ATO, taken in Donegal in 1970 I think. Prime Ferranti period.

Cheers, S

denis at IoM ??
 

hi all , came across this thread while looking up info on d de ferranti.
I found an old photograph which I think came from mr de ferranti' and it may be him racing . If anyone could confirm or deny this I would appreciate it.

My father designed and installed the movable hangar floors for the helicopter hangers in massbrook. I was quite young at the time but if memory serves the idea was to move the hangar floor out, land the helicopter and then move the pad or floor back in and close the doors.
I do recall a pilot flying to our house and going for a spin in one, I believe it was a bell, (forgive my ignorance of the model) and I think the pilots name was brian danger

ok I guess I cant upload a picture but if anyone wants a copy you an contact me and I will e mail a scanned copy

Tony

Denis lost his left eye in a crash in the IOM TT, I think in 1929. That was why he was only allowed to fly in the right hand seat & employed a pilot to sit in the left to 'keep an eye on those funny needles'! Everything in his hangar was automatic. On arriving you transmitted on VHF & the door opened & a trolley came out. I believe the fence or hedge also came down! Fabulous set up!

I must be getting old!! I see I wrote something similar higher up the page!! Sorry!!

I will ask Gay if you like? She's my step-grandmother....

Smoth1976
 

Please do, all info and images welcome.

Shane

G-BCTE
 

We continue to search for images and information relating to the Ferranti fleet but are especially keen to discover details relating G-BCTE the Bo105CB which served with Ferranti between April 1975 and April 1976.

BCTE was perhaps best known (among Ferranti-ites) for her appearance on the cover of the second Ferranti brochure where she was pictured over the Alps.

Because her tenure with Ferranti was so short-lived it has been challenging to collect material so .. if there's anyone out there who recalls this craft .. please do let us know.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l...ale%252529.jpg
MBB Bo105CB D-HDCH being displayed at Farnborough 1974 (Photo: Dave Grimsdale)

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G...%2525202.1.jpg
D-HDCH above the Alps and which image was used on the cover of Ferranti's second company brochure

MBB Bo105CB: 1974 D-HDCH MBB Germany > 1974 G-BCTE Helicopter Marketing UK > 1975 Ferranti Helicopters UK > 1976 PH-NZH KLM Helicopters Holland

BCTE was the second craft to fly in the Ferranti fleet with red and white livery - the first being the Agusta-Bell 206 G-BAKT.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_...W%2BB2%2Bb.png
Brantly B-2B G-ASEW belonging to Sebastian de Ferranti as seen at his hangar facility at Kerfield House in Knutsford, Cheshire in 1964

The trolley was mechanised (unique at the time) and could be remotely operated from the aircraft.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s...W%2BB2%2Ba.png
Sebastian in his Brantly

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B...EW%2BPanel.png
ASEW's panel

Alvaro de Ferranti Denis's Grandson
 

would love to hear your news about him whilst flying, the castlebar incident and anything you'd like to share. thank you very much, Alvaro

Denis
 

i remember that Beach well even though i was very young. i remember my dad walking down the beach proudly whilst my mother used to be in horror as we all wondered around naked LOL

Benvenuto Alvaro!

There are a number of people who have contributed to this thread who have had dealings with your grandfather and which includes Nigel Osborn and Uncle Ian both of whom flew for him in times past.

We also had a visit by Anthony Tuson (Ant T), son of Mike Tuson, who similarly flew for Denis. TRC did some work on your grandfather's JetRanger at his hunting lodge in Scotland at one point and there are doubtless others who have yet to contribute.

Hi Savoia

You comment that one of the 500's was ex military.

Not impossible but more likely both were purchased in that configuration and had no military service..

Hughes sold the 500 in three versions all civil certified.

369HS Hughes standard? (five seats
369HE Hughes executive (posh trim, five seats)
369HM Hughes military (right hand drive, mil trim four seats only)

Both of the 500's have HM suffixes.

My dad visited this weekend and we were looking at his old photos of his time as Denis's pilot. Here is one of EI-AVN, and Denis in one of his many classic cars - this one is a Mors Dogcart from the very early 1900s. The photo was taken at Baston, Lincolnshire

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...aston19733.jpg

Here are a few more - EI-ATY at the Scottish estate (Meoble).
This was the first helicopter I ever flew in, with Dad, and I thought it seemed a fun way to earn a living.
12 years later I was doing it for a living, and another 27 years on, I still am, and it still is !!

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...esbyhangar.jpg

This was an unscheduled engine repair in the "hangar" at Meoble after an oil line started leaking

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...hengineout.jpg




This was Dad bringing the results of the days stalking back to the house.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...rslungstag.jpg

Might find a few more to post in a day or two

Bravo Antonio! :D

These are superb and a wonderful compliment to the only other images we have of Denis' 500's from Shane on page 4.

Just to place the period, are we talking about late 70's early 80's here?

Our thanks to your Dad too!

ps: I've had 'leaky' oil lines on 500's in the past although these were all rectified by adjustments (or even replacement) of the line itself. But .. I've heard they do things a little differently in Scotland! ;)

pps: Presumably this was the hangar where TRC swapped out the fuel tank for Denis' 206?

Cool stuff.

Very nice.

Thanks for posting those photos of the two Irish-registered Hughes 500s. It is interesting to see that EI-ATY was a "soft-belly" 500. It was No.36 off the production line so I guess the belly hook didn't become a feature until later in production. The last photo looks like it could have been taken in New Zealand, not Scotland.

Was Dennis de Ferranti operating both 500Ms at the same time?

500 Fan.

The photos I am posting are all from around '74-'76. At the time Denis was operating the two 500 s (EI-ATY and EI-AVN) and one 206.

My dad's caption to this pic says Paris - 1975 (sorry for the poor picture but it was the only one he showed me of the 206)
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...Paris19752.jpg

But by the colour scheme, compared to photos earlier in the thread, this looks like EI-ASW. In post #68 Sav says that was in use by Denis only during 1968. I will have to check with Dad ! (Edit - Just spoke to Dad, he checked his logbook and the 206 he flew was definitely EI-AWA, so this must be an old photo of ASW that he had been given by someone. It is at Issy-le-moulineuax though.

By the way, for those interested, a good section of Dad's book ("A Mild Form of Insanity - by Mike Tuson", still available online.... :) ) is about his time flying for Denis.

Another one of slinging at Meoble - putting up a TV mast
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...gingTVmast.jpg


And one of the landing pad at Massbrook, Co.Mayo. There were two hangars there, the pads motored in and out of the hangars, which I seem to remember were carpeted and central heated (but I may be wrong). I do remember the engineer definitely had a good stereo system in there though.
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...sbrook1975.jpg

This was an uninhabited island near Arisaig where they used to go for picnics. Not sure what the plan was if it didn't start when it was time to leave.....
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...offArisaig.jpg

EI-AVN at Lough Conn from Kieran Connolly
 

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...68221707_n.jpg
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...78662467_n.jpg
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...79722896_n.jpg

Great photos Ant !
 

When did EI-AVN loose her low skids? And why, does anyone know?
And when did EI-ATY gain her red panels? They werent red when she was imported by Trans World Helicopters.

Perhaps it was when she was repainted after her rebuild following her incident hooking her skids on a phone line and nosing over on the Scottish estate in 1971.

Yes, the same "hangar". I have several photos taken during that visit - when I get back to the UK I'll try to find them and post them on here.

Shane: These are a wonderful compliment to 'Antonio's' contribution. It is great to see these memory-provoking photos finally coming out of the woodwork so to speak. Bravo!

500 Fan: If you're reading this then I thought I should mention (which I may have done before .. sorry getting old) that it was you who taught me to look out for the rear passenger skylights on the 500 in order to determine if the craft was a military model. Using this piece of detection one surmises that 'ATY' was the ex-Mil model but .. I could be wrong because I've heard it suggested that both of Denis' 500's were military variants! On a side note; did you notice that even when 'AVN' was placed on high skids she had neither rear skid-mounted nor belly steps, making entrance to the rear seats, well .. interesting!

TRC: We shall look forward to those. Yes, upon reflection .. I 'post-scriptively' use the term 'hangar' somewhat loosely, lol!

I think Christian did a better job (in more recent years) on his take of a remote-Scottish-helicopter-home:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y...2520island.jpg
The Isle of Eilean Righ off the West Coast of Scotland

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i...2520hangar.jpg
The Isle's hangar

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6...Siva-Jothy.jpg
MD900 G-SIVR belonging to the Isle's owner, Christian Siva-Jothy

ps: In the hangar shot you will see a line of fluorescent-tube lighting switched on .. totally unnecessary (during daylight hours) if you have transparent roof-panel sections installed (they work a treat). In fact I haven't seen a modern hangar anywhere without them!

ASW or AWA
 

The middle car in the background of the paris photo is a Renault 5
They came out in 1972 (so its unlikely to be ASW in that photo)
So its most likely AWA was repainted in all gold and carried the same scheme as ASW prior to that.

Nice to see Issy the way it used to be - a very big grass field with a few hangars and not the very busy pad it is today, surrounded by tall buildings and a huge shopping mall. Remember going there with my Dad in the mid 70's and being shown around a Helicopjet. Happy days.:)

Just been reading throught this fascinating thread and a memory I can contribute - OT as it involved fixed wing but relevant as one of the de Ferranti's was flying it - was a trip I had from Manchester Barton in EI-ARN, a Wren 460 which was a modified STOL version of the Cessna 182. I was young at the time but remember the CAA didn't like the Wren so it was registered in Ireland. I also remember the thing climbed like a homesick angel!