Shoes ??
 

I am doing HPPL and am on 12 hrs and getting top of the class ratings for everything except keeping the dumb chopper straight. So you will agree problems right there !! - I have from the start worn expensive training shoes - after trying second lesson in thick soled Catepillar type shoes - and to date my instructors just laugh when I ask about shoes. I seem to push too hard against the other foot and I need some advice quickly from you guys - should I try leather soles or flat rubber soles (less sticky)- must you point your toes against the sole - I am scared to ask them, they think I am trying to kill them anyway. This is a serious post and I would like some answers or advice - I am managing and got hovering right after 2 hrs but I am not responding pre-emptively with my feet, could just be my brain but in transitions things have been a bit hairy (1 lesson) and if it carries on I am asta la vista while I can still post. Its an R22. I am scared to try new footwear in case teh pedals slip.

The mostly likely cause, well it is with me and others anyway, is brain! However, shoes are important and I know some instructors do not recommend training shoes as the soles are too soft and you need to be able to feel the pedals. Leather soles will be too slippery especially around the hangar.

I wear rubber-soled leather jodphur boots and they seem ideal for the purpose of flying. Therefore, I know that the heavy left foot is down to me and not my footwear (much as I would like to try and blame something else!).

Cheers

Whirls

Heavy left foot, you're probably not sitting correctly.

When your sitting in the aircraft, make sure your balls of your feet are on the pedals and you knees reasonably close together, back nice and straight. I have seen several students sitting with their right leg out close to the door. This means their feet aren't equal on the pedals and there is more pressure on the left pedal.

Do you keeping needing to correct balance with right pedal in the cruise? If so, that's your problem I bet.

Shoes do help, I wear boots, but thats because I spend my day ankle deep in mud, snow or !!!!!.

TiP:ok:

Thanks
 

Thanks - I am too little left foot because I think my right is stopping it and my right foot is stronger. Is that why Russian chopper rotor blades turn clockwise - I tell you I would be a lot better if the right needed to be pressed against the left. Nobody said it was going to be easy ...

I did my first couple of lessons in caterpillar boots, and found that hard work.

At my instructor's suggestion, I swapped to a pair of "work shoes" with smoother and thinner (albeit not leather) soles, and got on much better.

Once I'd found a pair of shoes that I felt comfortable in, I stuck with them obsessively!!! It's only recently (a couple of hundred hours later) that I've started to relax on footwear a bit and am happy to wear either my "flying shoes" or trainers.

Your instructor won't think you're mad, it's a sensible point - ask away!!

RC

Without flying with you its difficult to say, but shoes which give you some feedback about the amount of force you are putting the pedals are good for training purposes. Trainers tend to absorb some of the feeling and make things more difficult initially.



When you have some experience you can fly in almost anything, but initially shoes with a thin sole (not too flexible) are a help.

The other thing which can help with overcontrolling pedals is to fly with just your left foot (assuming an R22), you can't push against it if your right foot is on the floor. But I am sure that if your instructor considered this appropriate he or she would suggest 5 minutes of it, and please don't try it when solo just coz some bloke on PPrune thought it was a good idea.

A lot of people find themselves applying force to both pedals at once during initial training. I know I did.

V.

advice
 

thanks to all of you - I am not sure how I am going to ask my guy if I can try with one foot - I reckon I will be solo straight after that as he will climb out. He is about 6ft 5 and his one knee hangs out the door which he takes off most of the time and the other is on my lap so no wonder I dont try his posture - my knees are close together and back reasonably straight - I will try that and if you guys are managing in boots and whatever I will stick to what I am using for now and try and sort the brain out. I will ask about the one foot experiment.

I've flown for years wearing boat shoes, because they give me better traction when preflighting a wet aircraft and on slippery wet decks offshore. I know several pilots who have had serious injuries from falls from aircraft, and even from wet stairs. Almost any shoe/boot can work, it's just a matter of practice, and I think you should wear whatever is most practical considering the non-flying conditions. In the aircraft it's not a big issue, other than comfort on long trips.

Thin soles are the key when you are learning with the pedals just in front of the balls of your feet and a little pressure so your heels can slide over the floor. Ballet dance on them.

Some thing you might try to 'wake your feet up' is left foot braking when you are driving your car. Make sure nobody is behind and you have your seatbelt on the first time you try! :ugh:

I had a similar problem when learning to land the R22. The excitment made me "fishtail" when close to touchdown. My instructor made me do what Veeany suggested. Keeping my right foot flat on the floor and after numerous pickup's and set down's my brain seemed to click.

Flying boots.

Heliport, I don't really think that's gonna help him much. LMAO

On a more serious note, I was advised to wear a comfortable shoe with a flat sole when I was training and very low hours. Whirlygig's instructor had the idea.

Now these are really good:-
http://www.chippewaboot.com/order/27422.htm


super comfortable!!!!

Tipweight In the cruise I am fine - upper air work great and I balance turns and changes in altitude - just 2 to 6 ft off the ground lots of problems. My brain reacts to all the hand inputs ok but not feet. Here's the laugh - feet on their own I am 100% - even when they have tried to shake me down - kept it dead straight. Oh yes and soon as they say something to me - goodbye 90 degrees and I have asked them to tell the ATC to shut the .... but it wasnt well received. Hope they dont read this ... regards and I will post if my next transition lesson goes better or I resign.

Sounds like co-ordination difficulties in the hover - don't be at all disheartened; you've only 12 hours in your log book and it's not unusual not to be able to hover in only that short a time - jeez, I took a lot longer!! It shouldn't take you long to work out where my personal title came from i.e. the days when I couldn't hover and talk.

At some point, something clicks and you'll wonder why you ever had trouble with it.

You will get there I promise and no lesson is ever wasted. If you're having difficulties hovering, then your instructor can interperse the lessons with some nav otherwise you could get bored and tired!

Cheers

Whirls

There has been a lot of good advice offered, most of which is valid if irrelevant. However, I feel footwear choice is of no importance. It is simply a case of your ability to pre-empt based upon known factors and the speed with which you are able to process the information. It takes time and the period is simply based upon your ability to forge new neuron pathways and reinforce them.

Practise makes perfect and whether it does or not is conjecture but the former is a pre requisite for any degree.

Best Wishes

These ones are excellant for landing in a tail wind

http://www.rutherfordshoes.com/

For something different....try Japanese wooden clogs :}
http://www.japanesekimono.com/images/sandle_005.gif

psyan, true but why make your life difficult with "equipment" that isn't fit for purpose!!

Cheers

Whirls

Left shoe = Left foot etc etc :} Might Help :ok:

But seriously, there are some good replys here.
I used a flat, thin soled boot. Which was pretty flexible/supple. Helps to "feel" the pedals.
Like Tipweight, I also wear boots due to snow, mud. No !!!! though :E And have no worry's about thickness of boots, just comes to time in the saddle.

I also remember being really heavy on the pedals. So try to relax a tad, and be nice and soft footed on it. Also try some hovering exercises with your instructor, like hover taxi along with differant power changes (not too high) and work on keeping nose in right direction. Hover Patterns and turns around a spot and keep nose pointing at the spot.
Like Whirls said, you only have 12 hrs. I bet there will be a huge differance by 20 hrs and so on if you keep practising hard.

It will happen man! Keep up the good work.

Hughesy

Next time one of my students is having difficulty I'll just quote the above then. . . :8

. . and leg-it :}

So, you can afford helicopter lessons and have at least two pairs of expensive SHOES as well?

And now you want help to keep the aircraft straight and be better than us?

Sheesh. Some people. :rolleyes:

;)

Most instructors recommend shoes with thin soles so that you can easily feel the pedals. One of my low hours students switched from trainers to shoes with a thin sole, and he told me it made a tremendous difference. It's true that eventually you can fly wearing just about any type of footwear, but you only have 12 hours and you're struggling, so I'd suggest giving this a try and seeing if it works.

One thing that worries me about your post is that you say your instructors laugh if you ask about footwear. They shouldn't; it's a serious question, and it's wellknown in the instructing world that in the beginning footwear can make a great deal of difference. But in any case, they should take ANYTHING you ask seriously!!!! If this is their general attitude to you, maybe you should consider changing instructor/school. As for them thinking you're trying to kill you, of course they do, because you probably are! ;) But don't worry or take it to heart; we all know it's not intentional - it's just what students do. :)

Just to offer an alternate perspective, I did pretty much all my training in Sidi Blackrain motorbike boots, mainly because that's what I would turn up to the airfield wearing (motorbike + trainers + accident = no more ankles). They're mid-calf, padded and armoured, and have a reasonably thin, hard, inflexible sole.

YMMV :)

whirly's advice
 

Thanks Whirly - in essence everyones replies have made me realise that it would be better to try some normal thin soled rubber work type shoes. To be more specific about my issues the serious safety side came into play when they pushed me into transitions and as you know the amount of pedal movement is big and has to be timed perfectly (has to be reactive ?) and even when I follow I dont seem to register so I will try again later in the week. Technically its not a squeeze around the ankle ??which I dont think the boot exponents here will be doing but rather a push like the clutch of a car. I will get him to do do 1 or 2 for me before I try again - just that that each circuit takes about 5 minutes and ten minutes to get there so it means 5 or so a lesson. I like to see the light hearted side to help relax me - my third transition (landing) last lesson left me 180 degrees the wrong way and I would think if anyone was watching would have thought that it was a remarkable piece of flying - my instructor is a gifted aviator and he sorted it but I am not that keen to even try again to be honest.

I entirely agree with the "right foot off the pedal" technique. When my instructor had me do it, it made me realise that I had been so tense I had been literally bracing myself between the pedals and the back of the seat. From then on, whenever I sensed that stress was creating tension in my legs, I'd lift my right foot a centimetre from the pedal for a few seconds to force myself to relax.

boots/
 

rtrnewboy
If you are hung up on Boots\ Shoes\ trainers look for some with rolled heels,
(like car race shoes.)
BUT I bet the neuron path is the closest explaination.
Feet are the most difficult part to cordinate, for me it was a real problem, some say it still is
"The 180 on landing" been there done that, I was made to pick up and do it again, again, again, slowly, the reason given, "and the instructor was correct," was that I dumped collective without pedal input due to the brain overload, and a wish to be on the ground NOW.
Whatever people tell you flying the Helio is one of the most difficult things you will ever do, why do you think you will be in full controle after 12 hours?
More hours\training regular flights 1 hour, then a break if possable, then another hour.
Your brain is trying to assimulate a whole new way of doing things, spatial awareness, physical feeling, motor reflexes etc. if the instructor is not helpfull ( he might be a good aviator but a good cfi ?) is he the correct one for you?.

Definitely too tense on the pedals. Your upper air work is fine and most probably because you are more relaxed and you tense up near the ground, a very common fault in the beginning.

It may also be that you are looking way too close in when the ground is close to you, down near your feet. Try driving your car like that and you will be all over the place. Look "down the road" in the hover for a reference.

Lifting your right foot off completely and doing spot turns both left and right using only your left foot will quickly teach you to relax your legs and that you don't need to push hard on the pedals. You will realise how much you are pushing one foot against the other.

If your instructor hasn't mentioned (1) being too tense, (2) where you are looking and (3) tried the left foot only excercise, get a new instructor before deciding to give it away. It is their fault and not yours.

Shoes are also important, but the aircraft is only going to respond to the input you provide. It will never be a good response if you can't see what needs doing and then can't smoothly and accurately provide the input that is required.

I'm not trying to be flippant with this comment, but I once overheard a high time instructor telling his student at a debriefing that..

"what you need to do is un-clench your arsehole and stop trying to chew a hole in the seat cushion".

The student took this to heart and reported the next flight as a revelation!

PS, I'm an AME so it may not work and the standard disclaimers all apply.;)

Having had a little joke at your expense, I agree that the problem probably isn't so much to do with your shoes as with nervous tension in your legs/feet/ankles/brain.

Just change to lighter shoes*, try to relax and it will all come to you.

P. S. If it helps you to know, I still have to work hard at the balance in some types of heli and I've been doing it since 1978.......... :\

*Not ballet shoes, mind - that's possibly going a bit too far. ;)

unclench
 

Had a real laugh at that - anyone watching me dismount after the last lesson and try and take my first few steps would have noticed a distinct limp as I had a cramp in my upper bum area roundabout where my right hamstring joins my arse. Dudes I must stop reading this stuff and try make some money so that I can pay for lesson later in week - I feel a whole lot better and will do some more hovering turns with as little right pressure as possible so that I get more instinctive and do it all with the old work shoes and then go for another approach and landing drill.

Fly a circuit with the instructor covering the pedals for the transition to forward flight then both of you just put your feet flat on the floor until you next land. The instructor will probably have his feet 'hovering' over the pedals before landing, but when you can do that, you won't even remember the time you had problems in the hover. :E

Get exercise 6,7,8 sorted first though. Use this order of things:- crawl, walk, run!!! No other way when trying to fly a helicopter for the first few lessons.

I'm not sure if I've completely understood your problem, but I do know that ALL students seem to find the last bit of the transition from forward flight to the hover very difficult at first. Everyone's different, but I've come to the conclusion that there are several reasons for this....

1) Frustration. You've probably got the upper air work and possibly the transition from hover to forward flight roughly right, so why is this holding you up?

2) Exhaustion and overload. It's right at the end of the circuit. You've done loads of unfamiliar stuff in the last ten minutes, and now you've got the most difficult bit to do.

3) Fear. Your instructor is probably on at you about carb heat, aiming points, going forward and down, looking out for other aircraft etc. It's just dawning on you that this stuff is potentially dangerous. :(

4) Up until now you'll have rarely made any large pedal movements; it's all very gentle. But now, as you come to a hover, you lose translational lift. This means you need a big movement of the collective, which means you have to have an equally big pedal movement. Was it in coming to the hover that you had your 180 degree turn; it wasn't clear? Anyway, there are two ways of coping with this...
a) Just practise till you get it right.
b) Slow down and pull in power gradually, and if your instructor doesn't mind, come to a hover-taxi rather than a hover, then slow down to a hover. It's all a lot gentler and easier, and gives you time to think.

5) The main reason for all of the above....
You are trying to run before you can even stand, let alone walk. Relax. The people who find helicopter flying easiest (correction...least horrendously difficult) are the ones who don't try to hard, who aren't ambitious or success orientated, but just have a laugh and enjoy it. 12 hours is nothing, and practice is all it takes.

So....have fun!

I bought a pair of military flying boots whilst doing my cpl training from Haynes and Cann of Northampton, bloody brill. Now on my third pair, they have never let me down. Plenty of feel and loads of support around the ankle. A pair of "seconds" delivered cost aprox £57. They normally cost around £150 plus VAT but I cannot find anything wrong with there seconds.

rtrnewboy - LWAAPAM:)

It stands for Look Well Ahead And Pick A Marker.

Overcontrolling in yaw in the hover is usually because you are looking in the wrong place - have you been taught to look at the 2 0'clock daisy or the hover attitude? If it is the 2 o'clock daisy then no wonder you are having problems.

Equally if you tend to look too close to the aircraft the hover will suffer.

Look into the distance and use hover attitude and markers and I am sure it will help.

The other top tip is to relax - if you are too tense your strongest leg will over power the weaker one causing yaw in the strong direction. I once tried to take control from a student in a steep turn who had both his legs locked out, no wonder he was struggling with balance control! Humming or singing might p8ss your instructor off but it might help you to chill out a bit and relax if that is your problem.

Good luck - I fly in boots but I reckon deck shoes might be best for you!

Yeh, don't look at 2 o'clock Daisy. Or even half past one Rose. In fact, stay out of the nightclubs altogether and get some more sleep, it'll help with the flying. ;)

rtnewboy:

I started flying a few decades ago with combat boots. Not my first choice, but they were paying. Adequate for the tropics.

Then to the Northern US. Required, with big socks.

Next to the tropics, civilian. Whatever you could afford.

Then to the Gulf of Mexico. Depends on the season.

Finally, back to the tropics, better paid.

I have a pair of Clarks, Gore-Tex, so I laugh at the puddles during Rainy Season. I just purchased a pair of Geoxx, Respika. Split rubber soles with the sweat holes in the bottom. Very light on the feet.

SirVivr

PS. One Maint. Supr. entered in the book after a write-up about High-Freq vibrations, that the Pilot had thin-soled shoes.
That Co. is on the down-side.

Comments about my "Pimp Shoes" come from low time, uneducated people that are slaves to the fashion trend.

Whatever works best for you.

humbled
 

Thanks to all of you for your responses - both humbled and amused. Ok so shoes dont matter - basically everything except barefoot is the just of it. Cognitive processes a big part and for me fear the biggest really and pressing too hard. I will ask for another 1/2 hr hovering and try and feel a bit less pressure with the same control (lifting right foot tip) and then go for the transitions. I fish tailed and didnt push forward enough as I was sure I would plough a hole in the runway so we ballooned a bit but the keeping straight is what made me jerk up and the landing got progressively worse - beautiful approach and changes of speed and the from about 40 ft up a complete b... up which is why I definitely will not say anything about my wingman - as far as I am concerned he's saved our lives and Frank Robinsons reputation 4 times in one day. Tomorrow weather permitting another bash and some introspection. ;)

Sorry but I don't think that is the consensus here. People are saying that, in the early stages of your flying, thin-soled shoes/boots with a bit of grip are best and that trainers might not be helping. Then, once you have got the hang of it, choice of footwear becomes less important and then you can fly in whatever works best for you and what is comfortable.

These are my boots! And just to make certain pilots really jealous; I have two pairs - one black, one brown!

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...le20single.jpg

Cheers

Whirls

If you are right foot bias, you could try finishing your training in a Eurocopter, that should just about put you in ballance ??!! :bored:

Nice shoe's Whirls.......!

Agree Whirls - my shoes based on whats been said are fine - they are flat boxing racing driver type and are not that sticky. I will try others - not as plush as yours, they will roll around the ground if I rocked up in a pair of those. Your long post was spot on and my problems were mainly on the forward flight to hover transition albeit I did struggle with the hovering before that with the feet issue which is why I worried about the shoes.