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Hiller
I read an article on Spraying with Hillers.
The article says they operate Hiller UH12 e's with Turbine Conversion..... 4,000 SHP. WOW where do you get these beasts??? In the article its stated that they can carry bigger loads than a Bell 206.... no wonder with the Jetranger having a pitiful 420 shp compared to the mighty 4000 shp Hiller! ;) |
The piston 12E uses 305 horsepower, when you put the Allison engine in, it is derated to 301 horsepower (4 HP less, because the cooling fan drive for the piston engine is removed from the transmission during turbine conversion)
The 206A/B series ships use 317 horsepower... The 500D uses 375 horsepower.... The M/R system on the Hiller is just better for lifting, but it don't go fast.... |
Did nobody note the sarcasm in my voice?
The Hiller also had the advantage of giving you a full body massage by the end of the day. |
The Hiller 12E can fly as smooth as a Bell 47 or 206, if the operator is committed to maintain the aircraft correctly...
If that happens, then you will not get a full body workout.... [ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: rotormatic ] |
I've did Forestry with both the 206 and the Hiller Soloy and yes the Soloy will lift more,but it stops there, the 206 can do just as much if not more work because it is faster. You will have a strong left arm after flying the Hiller. If you go out and take the power-steering belt off your car and drive it like that,thats what flying a Hiller is like
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Depends on the pilot...
Had a soloy on a christmas tree contract, and they kicked off a 500D because the hiller was faster. You can only go so fast with a load..... |
While slinging Fertilizer with a Hiller you have to just trim the cyclic to a fairly neutral position because the bucket emties so fast you wear yourself out trying to trim it. So you just force feed the cyclic all day long,as if the collective wasn't bad enough.If you've ever worked a Hiller you will know what I'm talking about. Hiller pilots soon learn how to move there left leg over to help hold up the collective. Just no fun to fly. :(
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Everything Nodak said is gospel. Your left arm will begin to look like Popeye's. They don't call them Hiller Killers for nothing. Damn thing nearly killed me. I will Never fly another one.
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Seeking a UK Hiller 12 TRE
...does anyone know of one?
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What's a TRE?
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t'aint :
Try asking the guy who's had an article written about them in the latest Pilot. You should have his contact details, no ? And, rotormatic, a TRE is a Type Rating Examiner. I suspect T'aint is on the verge of buying a Hiller for himself. |
I must admit that after reading that article, I was somewhat tempted myself.
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Fairy:
Spot on. Done that, and he dunno. |
You'll need a nice local engineer to go with the TRE as well.
Old helicopters = high maintenance. High maintenance = cheap to purchase. Also remember slow cruise speed and loads of vibration. Apart from that great fun and at the end of the day it is a helicopter after all. ;) |
I'll let y'all know how I get on.
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40 years ago I did my basic training in a Hiller 12E. It couldn't have been too difficult, otherwise I would never have got through the course which included night flying! No hydraulics or turbo chargers to go wrong; reliable engine but watch the clutch engagement, not too bad for autos and plenty of power in cool climates and if not too high. If you pay my fare from Australia, I will happily endorse you!
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There is just ONE Hiller current on the G- register, and that's a stretched E.4 model with a CofA expiry date in 1997. So, I guess the enqiry is actually prompted by the article in the May edition of Pilot mag http://www.pilotweb.co.uk in which a UK based N reg Hiller 12C is featured. The owner of this has two others (one 12B which has been on the G register but CofA expiry was 1974!, and one 12C) all on the N register.
One of the 12Cs is featured on the owners website at http://www.southernaircraft.co.uk - price is 40K pounds, no VAT OK, so I am making a lot of assumptions here, but I guess the search is for an FAA examiner and not a CAA one... The only other place I can think of in the UK that may be able to help is HFI at Gamlingay (near Old Warden and Little Gransden) - try 01767 651887 - they maintained and operated some Hillers up to a few years back. |
Just operate it on the "N" register and bypass all these problems - just fly it!:rolleyes:
Although the Hiller became an archaic relic some decades ago in the UK, they continue to work for a living elsewhere in the world - and still do a pretty good job. The Allison powered Soloy 12E's were the ultimate, plenty of power, very reliable yet still simple. A few years ago the Hiller suffered very badly from a lack of some major parts - notably Main Rotor Blades (pretty important part). This resulted in some operators cannibalizing their fleets, although once the parts became available again, they seemed to just crank them up and go. Someone contacted me recently about certification on some some British manufactured Hiller blades they had on a ship they purchased (?) - but I really didn't know anything about them. The assets of the company were sold yet again, and I know that Blades were once again available (not conversant with the current situation though). It depressed the market for a while, but they seemed to bounce back. As you can now purchase a brand new Hiller 12 from the factory, I would imagine the parts situation is back under control. If you want to see the World, fly Hiller; as it will be passing by pretty slowly! :) (And don't forget those hyper-sensitive controls either :D)Hiller Aircraft |
Okay, all you knowledgeable greybeards, I have one remaining question (for now).
Why is the Vne 75kt? The Soloy conversions ran out to over 100kt (allegedly) on virtually the same airframe. I have flown the 12C and found it remarkably slippery. It was ready to bust Vne before I woke up. What comes off first? |
Hiller 12C
Just wondering if anyone might be able to point me in the right direction. I am interested in buying a Hiller 12C here in the UK, but I am part way through the process of emmigrating to Oz and would like to take the aircraft with me. What I need to find out is as follows
1. Is there anyone that can maintain Hillers in the Brisbane area (I know they used Hillers commercially inOz some time ago) 2. Is the Australian Civil Aviation Authority likely to allow any form of commercial use for this aircraft if it is put on the Australian Civil Aviation Authority register (there is a guy who can put them on the N register here in the UK through a trust but you can't do any commercial work with them) 3. Is there any good reason I shouldn't buy one (any known fatal flaws that I am not aware of) 4. Anything else that may be relevant about the 12C as I am trying to get myself to a point where I feel comfortable buying one. Many thanks to anyone who can offer any advice at all. |
Unlike New Zealand where the Hiller 12E was quite popular, Australia has never had many Hiller 12s or 1100 on register. I don't know about the current register though. I learnt to fly on the 12E and believe it was a lot better than the 12C which I never flew. Due to the lack of Hillers here, there wouldn't be too many pilots endorsed or current, so trying to earn money from one could be difficult. Some were used for crop spraying by a East Coast company but I've lost track of them.
Hope that helps a bit!:D |
Thanks Nigel,
just out of interest, what is it about the 12E that you thought was better than the 12C, as I wouldn't necessarily be averse to buying one other than they tend to be a fair bit more money and have more time-lifed components. |
As I said I haven't flown the 12 C, so all my info is second hand. The Navy replaced the 12C with the E in 1963 when I learnt to fly and did a huge 50 hours on them and naturally found it difficult. In cool climates and low altitudes, the 12E outperformed the Bell 47, hence they were used for sling work in New Zealand and crop spraying here. Why is it better than the C? I can't be more specific other than to say it is newer, any C must be at least 40 years old. Management Aviation ( Bond) used Hillers in Cambridge for spraying, so someone there may know more.:rolleyes:
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I have never flown the 12E but I did my initial training in the 12C and I can say that having flown that the R-22, the Rotorway 162, and the 300C that the 162 and the 12C were the worst underpowered of the group. I have heard that the supercharger really helps the power though.
My two cents Brian |
There was a full article on the Hiller UH-12C in Pilot Magazine May 2002 p58. I think that will answer a few of your questions. If you haven't got one I could send you a copy of the relevant six pages.
The provider of the Hiller for the article was a chap called Warren Chmura of Southern Aircraft Consultancy, whose telephone number is 01763 786 032. He looks after Hillers on the US register. He might be the same chap you are referring to on your post. |
Hiller 12Es in OZ
The biggest user of the Hiller 12E in Oz used to be East Coast Helicopters based at Caloundra, just north of Brisbane in Queensland. We used them mainly for crop spraying & cattle mustering. Rather than buy one in UK and go to all the trouble of exporting to Oz, why not get in touch with Barry Costa ([email protected]) and get one already on the VH- register? I think Baz should also be able to arrange a full maintenance & overhaul schedule.
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Draco: Chmura's number was misprinted in Pilot. It is in fact 01736 786 032. I happen to know he's just sold the 12C that the article was about, but has others.
I'm not so sure about the unsupercharged 12C being the most underpowered machine in Christendom. I've flown it with three fat blokes in and it's well up to the task. Rattles like a bitch and you risk bird strikes up the chuff, but otherwise OK. |
I believe the "C" had the VO 435 and the "E" has a VO540. Mucho more power. Great crop duster. Will work with OH-58.
Barryb |
UH-12C:
Franklin 220 HP engine Wooden blades UH-12D: Lycoming VO435 260HP Metal Blades UH-12E: Lycoming VO540 340 HP derated to 305 HP Metal Blades |
I know of an N reg Hiller 12C for sale in East Yorkshire. If you are still interested call 07811 404070
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Hiller 12C, D, E
Thanks guys for all the info, it's greatly appreciated.
Just a couple of things, if anyone knows these machines well enough, the 12C is supposed to suffer very badly from vibration which I think may have something to do with the wooden rotors, is the 12E equally rattly or not with metal blades? And also, there is no VSI or balance ball, DI etc with the 12C, is the instrumentation a little more comprehensive on the 12E? Does anyone know of a site that has all the specs of all the UH models, I am assuming that the 12E has considerable performance advantages over the 12C, but would love to see the specs. |
The wooden blades on the 12C do make balancing a fine art, but the advantage is that they remain on-condition. Go to metal blades, and they're time-lifed.
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Hiller Uh12c
ANYONE GOT ANY INFO ON THESE MACHINES? OR DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET A TRIAL FLIGHT I,M THINKING I MIGHT PURCHASE ONE BUT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A GO FIRST.
MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE DAVE |
Hiller Uh12c
Check back issues of Pilot magazine. Good write up some time ago, also gave address of chap who had some for sale in Cornwall . I think the folks at Weston heli museum may know of him. Bug.
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From Russia With Love... [cue James Bond Theme]
Would Southern Aircraft Consultancy ring any bells for the people at Cornwall?
Pulse Helicopters operating out of Sywell Northants offering "360 UH 12 Series, Zero hours, remanufactured utility helicopter £79,995 +VAT fully certified ready to fly" Possible contender for syndicate? Website claims £68/hr UK operating costs and only 2 time limited components (and has a favourable quote from Pilot Magazine tagged on the end): Since 1951,the UH12 has been used as a primary trainer by military services around the world.The Helicopter was extensively used in combat conditions throughout the Vietnam era.The UH12 continues to-day with an almost perfect training record.NTSB records show the UH12 Series Model has a significantly better safety record,particularly in the last ten years,than our nearest competitor.This record allows for lower insurance costs in to-days market place. The Internationally proven,full 3 place UH12 is capable of tackling the most demanding tasks.With almost 700 pounds of USEFUL LOAD,the UH12 is one of the most versatile utility piston helicopters available to-day. The UH12 has just two-limited life components,in the tail rotor assembly.This keeps ownership costs to a minimum.At the present time,operating costs, based on 50 hours flown per year,are just under $50 US Dollars per hour. (in the United States).The direct fuel cost differences in the UK,make this figure around £68 Pounds per hour. Each Helicopter is painstakingly constructed by hand,with total emphasis to Detail.You can choose your own specification with regards to Exterior/Interior Colours and fabrics.A full Factory fitted options list is also available for you to Choose from. “You’re going to be one of the most confident pilots in the rotary world, because the stability of the UH12 and it’s autorotational behaviour, are beyond compare. You can add to the upside the fact that it’s cheap as chips (by helicopter standards), goes on forever, could be flown with half-an-hours tuition by your maiden aunt, and provides the best picture window you’ll ever get on this world. If you need a personal runabout for social, domestic and pleasure, this is it.” Pilot magazine. May 2002 |
I did my first 50 hours in a Hiller 12E and bearing in mind I didn't know what to do, found it a great machine. For example there are no hydraulics or turbo chargers to go wrong. I'm told the E is better than the C, which I never flew.
Doesn't auto as well as the Bell 47, but then not too many helicopters do.:O |
many thanks for your replies lads,
i know pulse and have been invited their in august, but im missing my flying since flightworks went bust and need to get back in the air so i was looking for somewhere to get a couple of hours in beforehand so i dont look like an eejit when i get to have a go!!!:p |
Hields at Sherburn-in-elmet have a 12E4??
Student/pilot flies it from the front as though its the middle seat, if you get my drift! |
Looked like a good thing until one looks at the component rebuild hours. now it looks expensive
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Can you identify this Heli
This photo was taken by me ages ago at some Airfiled, cant remember where or when, and piccie just turned up so I thought I would post it on Rotorheads
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5.../FloatHeli.jpg ages since I ve done this hope it comes through Vfr |
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