FAR 133 Application - Anybody Done it?
 

All,

I'm considering getting certified under FAA Part 133 for External Load work. I'm wondering if anyone has done this and has any pointers or examples of what has worked in the past. For instance, the required "Rotorcraft-load combination flight manual" sounds like a great opportunity to get myself in trouble :ok:

Any thoughts? Should I just pack my bags and head to the looney bin for thinking about trying to get past the red tape?

It is a relatively straight forward process. My best advice is to contact your local FSDO and speak to the rotary wing operations person and start on establishing a good rapport with him/her. We used the Van Nuys FSDO and they were great.

In terms on the RLCFM, look at this web link:
http://www2.faa.gov/avr/afs/faa/8700...2/2_098_00.pdf
It lays out how the FAA evaluiates your proposed manual and even has diagrams for signals that you could scan and insert into your proposed manual.

Get the paperwork started as soon as you can. It can take a while, depending on the backlog.

Wow.....

Thanks Mike, that's about ....well, exactly what I was looking for :)

Let me know if you're ever going to be in the SF Bay area during the week or out near Yosemite on the weekends.....


matthew
[email protected]

Your welcome.

Likewise, if your headed down to the Antelope Valley area, feel free to drop in to KMHV to visit us at NTPS to see what we do. We have all the 133 paperwork on file if you still need assistance. Our website is: www.ntps.edu

Mike

Looks like you've got lotsa fun toys to play with...

thanks again

A couple of thoughts about techniques mentioned earlier in the thread:

A few posts mentioned 'ground effect' at the bottom of the approach with a load; it's my experience that any ground effect with a slingload is negligable at best and I certainly wouldn't rely on getting any observable performance advantage from it.

A technique I used a lot when flying load to the tops of mountains, hot and high was to 'fly the load' using the mirror to a zero speed touchdown. You could be in a position that would prevent having sufficient power to hover but as soon as the load made contact with terra firma, you immediately gained extra performance. However, this required being very familiar with your aircraft and conditions and could easily end in tears if poorly judged. I'd only use this technique with netted, resilient loads!

Regarding the 'slingshot' technique, I've never had to do one. However, one dark night on goggles I was tasked to lift a very heavy piece of equipment from a boggy field in a hostile area. All the calculations were carefully done and it should have been well within the Wessex' capability. The load was hooked up and power gently increased to 3200lb (max tq) but it didn't budge. The cause, it occured to me at the time might be the 'surface tension' of the mud. So what I did was carefully ease the Wessex fore and aft whilst maintaining max power and the strop tightly tensioned. (I'd estimate the strop angle reached about 30 - 40 degs from the vertical). After a couple of cycles of rocking the load, one edge came free and the whole thing then came unstuck; it was a straightforward lift after that with a hover torque of about 3000lbs.

Anyone else tried similar techniques! J

Slingload training
 

My understanding is that there is no formal slingload training required in the UK.Nor any requirements for base/line checks (specifically for slinging) is this true?Can any UK pilots elaborate?
What happens in the rest of europe? are there any requirements in France ,Germany, Spain?
I believe in the States FAR 133 covers pilot requirements and recurrent training but I'm not sure what happens in Canada?
Its interesting to note that the rules seem tighter (certainly in the states),than Europe.

Yep, as far as I am aware, there is no sling, or vertical reference training in the UK. SAD isn`t it?

Helicopters are a utiltiy piece of equipment, yet not in the UK, and for the best part of Europe. I can tell you this - In Canada you have an introduction to slinging (possibly 5 hours). If you get to commercial skill level (as I did) in time , and with the right operator and school, you get longline 50-150, bambi bucket, hover exit etc. And all in 100hrs of training. Don`t see any UK schools doing that!!! No real precision stuff in the UK. Very sad. (bar some military pilots)

But we all know that the UK CAA knows best.

I rest my case

Decimal

PS Not sure about FAA formal slingload training. But I think I`ve made a point.

That's correct, there is no formal ticket as there is in the US. There isn't one in Canada either, but it is still in the basic CPL course. In UK, it's very much left to the operator, unless you were in the military

Phil

So, here's some homework:

http://www.airborneflighttraining.com/gallery.html - play a video from the choice 2/3rds down the LHS side of the page.

Next - anyone aware of slingload training available in the UK ? Along with snow flying and water bombing training ?

If not I may have to take my missus up on the offer of blowing a few grand on a trip to Kelowna . . . once I've got another IT job, that is !

In Spain there isn't any external cargo endorsement but nevertheless, after some accidents occurred during firefighting, our Civil Aviation Authority came out with new regulations for that type of operations and since year 2000 there is a new rating called "Agroforestal" that qualifies to do those jobs, mostly water bombing which in some sense is external load operations. It's suposed to be about 90 hours of ground training and about 15 hours flight.
Not that this rating teaches you everything about fighting fires, but still a first step towards getting you in the way of learning with some previous advice. I guess it's the same process for all ratings, they don't teach everything but give you the knowledge to start learning, after that you need to get experience and is up to operators to get the right people for the right job.
Buen vuelo:ok:

What a wonderful video , just dreaming with this kind of training after my getting my license...
http://www.airborneflighttraining.co...romo_large.wmv
Here is the direct link if you want to download it (22mb)
:ok:

Regards.

Sling load training is a part of the basic CPL course over here aswell but to do aerial application a dusting and spraying rating is required, which involves 60hrs theory 30hrs flying training.
As far as I can remember off the top of my head there are no currency or minimum hours requirements at all.

As for keeping your hand in when there are no regular contracts..find an employer that will pay for that! :ouch:

Help with spinning load
 

Hi guys - we've got this thing that spins like mad when empty - I have already suggested a mesh at the front (there is one at the back) - but has anyone else got a suggestion?



cheers

Phil


http://www.electrocution.com/load.JPG

A big long tether line so your mates can hold onto it?

Small 2' drogue parachute trailing off the back? Just big enough to make it face the front and behave, small enuf not to drag it back too far.

Go find the largest plastic funnel you can, get get some rope (climbing or otherwise) and feed one end down the nozzle end and tie off a good size knot (to sit in funnel end) attach free end to container so it will act as a drogue to stabilise in flight AND can also be used by ground crew to coax container position when landing or taking off ???


Only a suggestion you understand ( but will probably workwell).



;) :ok:

I don-t know what lengh of line you are using but sometimes a longer line does the trick, mainly if that thing is spinning at low speed when a drag device or a fin is not efficient enough.
Maybe a cover in order to make a more compact shape of it, might also help a drag device in stabilizing at higher speeds.

an empty net attached will stop it spinning

If you've ever seen a Simplex or Isolair seeding bucket, they have what amounts to a vertical fin on the back ...in fixed wing fashion. it doesn't take the spin out at low speeds, but after you begin moving...straight as an Ottawa Politician ?? er straight as an arrow perhaps !
I suggest, bolt a fin, or even a couple of fins on the back, maybe one on each side like a Cessna 337 :p

The answer is in the picture
 

Cut down one of those saplings behind the guys in the picture, and tie it on, by the root, with a 20 foot line.

That is what trees are for - they stabilise any load.

Thanks a lot - it's back at the welders right now........

Phil

Paco,

407's idea is a good one but make sure you can "tune" the fin. I have seen the seeding buckets with the fin get a serious weave going with a rigidly mounted fin. A couple of bolts in either end so you can move and reset the fin should solve that issue.

Thanks! We're still trying to get some chevy fins......

Phil

Another stupid idea from the archives of my brain.
 

Put a tail rotor on it. Sounds stupid but it has been done. In the construction of a modular building they used heavy lift helicopters. In order to stabilize the modular loads and keep them from rotating they had an electrical or engine powered tail rotor. It worked quite well.

:E :E

You could talk to Joe Cadham at ProIFR in Boundary Bay (near Vancouver).

You could also talk to the grumpy Old men at remote Helicopters in Slave Lake (780 849 2222), or almost any company.

Phil

Come to the US of A...talk to me...we have a pilot or two that have seen such a thing done. Send me a PM...

There are several good schools that could give you the training in Canada.....


BC Helicopters at Abbotsford.
Chinook Helicopters in Abbotsford.
VIH Helicopters in Victoria.
Canadian Helicopters In Penticton.


All should have a Web presence, try a Google search.

All great options listed above by 407Driver.

http://www.bchelicopters.com/

http://www.chinookhelicopters.com/

http://www.vih.com/

http://www.canadianhelicopters.com/penticton_1.html

RH

Joe Cadham? Is he out of jail yet? :confused: :D

Joe actually did a bit of my Initial training on 47's. He was an excellent Instructor, his specialty was the "Night - Low-level - International Border crossing with large black garbage bags of product" part of the CPL course :p :p

Uncommanded load jettison
 

I've had this happen to me twice in 2 consecutive days in an AS350. First time I'd taken the strain on the load and the lift gear dropped from the belly hook, on landing the hook was closed.We then switched hooks from another aircraft.Second day I was on approach with the load and the same thing happened everything let go from the belly hook, the hook on landing was open.
Both times the electric jettison was armed.And before you ask, it was not finger trouble!
Hooks have both been checked over thoroughly twice ,no faults found.The Aircraft has been checked over by 2 engineers and both the manual and electrics have shown no faults.The manual cable was not too tight or snagging anywhere.The electrical looms are clean the relay operates normally the pcb shows nothing unusual and the switch is clean and operating normally.
The aircraft has been flight tested since with a load with numerous pick ups and and landings in all configerations (crosswind, tailwind, harsh pickups trying to create as much vibration as possible) and has shown no faults.
I've 2500 hours of lifting experience in these aircraft and have never seen this problem.
Any input or advice would be most welcome.

Was it Breeze or Siren hook ?

also see.
http://www.oas.gov/dts/tsdocs/tb04-03.pdf


http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/aircraf...p/SUPP-018.pdf

There was a problem with one operator in Canada , not sure what the end solution was.

Hard Luck - I've dropped two loads inadvertently in my time.

One was a welded contact in the release electrics.

The other was finger trouble (trying to get rid of a twitching autostab with the load release button uncovered) :{

Was there any stray RadHaz in the area where this happened? High intensity transmissions etc?

I know there are unmarked areas in UK where electrics do strange things.

Other things that might cause it are:
static electricity build up that inadvertantly triggers the relay. (not sure of a solution for this)
load having too large an eye for the hook, allowing it to swivel around as it bounces and then slide through the back of the keeper. (make sure the load has a fairly small eye that just fits over the hook without too much slack).

History repeats itself.
 

I had a friend that dumped a 105MM howitzer from an H-34 and several days later he dumped the Generals Jeep from about 1000 feet. The problem was traced to a small Nylon ® pin that was employed as a striker on a Micro Switch ®. This striker wore and eventually kept the low weight micro switch in the closed position. This armed the low weight micro switch so that when the pilot armed the hook it appeared that the weight was off the hook and it opened.

Static electricity was mentioned, as was high voltage radiation as a possible cause. If solenoids are employed in the hook circuits or a solenoid was operated while the hook was armed this could be a problem. When a solenoid is de energized and it is not protected it can generate a back electromotive force as high as 1400 volts. This high voltage can radiate and be picked up on the circuit for another solenoid and cause it to operate. This EMF can also effect other circuitry. The back EMF can cause switches to weld shut or to severely increase the resistance on switch points causing a sneak circuit or no circuit at all.

:E :E

Edited to remove a zero.

static is fairly rare on certified helicopter hooks, but not unheard of. What was the environment like - does it lead you to think of static buildup?

The fact that it happened on two different hooks is intresting. Do you have more information on the second release, ie timing, load position, etc?

As Shawn said - have you considered dynamic rollout? Seems to be a prime contender for this one.

Sorry guys I've been away but many thanks for the feedback.

Widgeon - it is a Breeze Hook and thanks for the links, I'm double checking with engineering that we do all that is suggested following the US safecoms.(I'm 99% sure we do).

MBJ - No Radhaz around the 2 different locations 100nm apart.

Shawn - Static wasn't a problem, no rain, hail, snow,lightening,dust or low cloud. Having said that I've flown in all of these weather conditions before in the same aircraft in exactly the same configeration around pylons and mobile phone masts and have never ever had a problem.On my test flights afterwards I had all the lights on as usual and also transmitted on the marineband and airband comms with no adverse effect. The hook /eye problem, yes I'm aware of that situation and it wasn't a factor.

Lu- You're just getting me worried now
;)

Prior to the first incident the hook had been removed for a filming sortie with a Wescam.
On the first job I lifted 3 loads successfully, the 4th was 900kgs of fertilizer,100% torque was pulled, positioned directly over the load with a 15-20kt headwind an easy lift,no hassles anticipated and before it came off the ground the the lifting gear just dropped away.

Second day- replacement hook new location - trickier job longer line into small clearing through a tree canopy- light winds and a lighter load around 500 kgs. 1st lift of the day, with a normal lift and transit to a hover,then as I was lowering the load into the clearing the lot went.

I've always flown with the electric release armed, and Ive had my finger hover over that button on a number of occasions in the past for various scary reasons but not on these two occasions.

Thanks again
arm the floats

edited for spelling

atf: What if the two were unrelated and coincidental? Armed with info on the second load, I am wondering if they are seperate causes?
You have definately gone through all the right steps to solve the issue, so the suggestions below are more as a result of ponderings because you havent indicated the depth of your testing, rather than any questioning of your analysis: so forgive me if it sounds otherwise.

The pick up still seems like rollout, but I would have to see the hook design first - some are protected against rollout). This can sometimes be caused by other things than eye size, and it is sometimes possible to use the sling to assist in rollout, but very unlikely. Also, I have seen one or two people achieve a rollout where many others tried to replicate it and failed, believing that it could not be done. The reason I am thinking rollout is that the hook was firmly closed when you inspected it. I know that it could flick shut after an inadvertant release, but during the pick up I am wondering about how much load was applied - though you do say 100% TQ.

On the put down - I know you have checked, but the release cable can always be a suspect, even if it appears to be of sufficient length. Test it's rigidity with a heavy load on, and then see what happens with a bit of load movement.

Good luck. We would love to hear the outcome if you find one.:ok:

ATF,

The issue of problems with Breeze hooks was raised in this thread . Along with other BK117 operators, I had (past tense) a Breeze Eastern A45, which gave a number of uncommanded jettisons. These are 30+ year old designs, and no longer supported by Breeze Eastern, as per Service Information Letter dated 26th April 2002. The fault is to do with tension on the emergency (manual) release, which appears to be interfaced with the auto release feature that was designed into the hook, but not used. The hook's fine in flight until <100lbs force, when it then 'auto releases'.

We've replaced our hooks with OBS Talon keeperless units, which are great. We have had to fabricate bumper rings to protect the hook, since the BK suspension system drops it (the hook) into the dirt and dust on every landing, which would soon wreck the unit, but otherwise it is a vast improvement, especially not having to worry about the diameter of the ring attached to the hook. With the keeperless system, it will accept any size without any risk of roll out :ok:

All good stuff guys.

Helmet Fire, I agree that the 2 might be unrelated and coincidental but I can assure it definately wasn't roll out. 80% of our work is lifting.Our lifting chains are attached to the belly hook of the aircraft....never the load directly.The lifting chains are attached by a shackle of a specific size that would preclude this.

Thanks for the link John I hadn't seen that one before.
The hook type is A25LT.Standard for the AS350. I've talked to the other main lifting company up here,they're investigating any previous incidents (not totally sure if they'd had anything similar),but they'll get back to me shortly.I'll keep you posted.

Cheers
arm the floats

Yes, it is quite normal to be terrified when a 700kg load swings wildly under you.

But why did it begin to swing ?

If it is due to aerodynamics, then slow down. If that doesn't work sufficiently, land and repack - heavy part of load will try to point in direction of flight (draggy part trails). If that still doesn't work you will have to get a net to carry the load in. The net will act as a spoiler and kill any tendency for the load to fly on its own.

If it is not due to aerodynamics, then treat the load as a pendulum. Take the energy out of the load by lowering the collective and/or follow the load by banking to the same side as the load swings. The last method can be modified into an ever so slight application of pedal to same side as the load swings, i.e. starting a turn "into" the load.

You will eventually develop flying skills to unconsciously cancel out a non-aerodynamic swing. Loads that want to fly somewhere else will be with you forever.

Ray Poutry [sp?] wrote a number of articles about sling technique in Rotor & Wing many many moons ago - I think they were published in a book.