Tank you for EC145 comment
 

Thank you to all who have contributed to the 145 discussion.

We are talking to Swiss Rega, German ADAC and Eurocopter. I will post how things fionbally develop down the line.

Thanks agian.

Touareg

Ec-145
 

Anybody have any time in the EC-145? We are looking at potential aircraft, and am wondering how it would compare to a 109E. I'm sure the speed doesn't match up, but we are looking more at volume then speed. IFR is a must, as is a convertable interior from pax to light cargo. Also looking at an S-76, but am thinking it's overkill.

Drop me an email and will put you in touch with Laurent Racine who flies the Rega EC145 out of Lausanne, Switzerland. They have been flying it for some time now and swapped from an Agusta A109 K2 so he could possible give you a good comparison.

Autorotate.

Would you share the information on the EC145 that you got from Laurent Racine for I'm sure there are some of us who would like some insight into this machine.

Ec-145 Bankstown?
 

Heard from an aquaintance that Eurocopter have just rolled out a 145 at YSBK any one know who owns it. I heard a whisper that a company up in WA was thinking about one.

Dealt with a month or so ago: True North bought it, first of type in country.

Nice bit of kit, as I start dreaming and wishing.....:cool: ;)

Cheers John!

I had an inckling but was'nt sure. Any advantages over a 135? apart from the obvious differences?

135/145
 

I suspect that is a major headache for Eurocopter, since they have produced in the 135, a competitor for the 145 (which is a development of the BK117C).

I'd still like to be able to justify one......:cool:

The EC 145 is really a BK117C with a 135 "front end" on it. EC did a great job in removing the control closet and running the controls through the centre winshield fairing.

I flew one a while ago and actually preferred it to the EC155. 8 pax and a totally move around and flexible interior make it an excellent small offshore, big EMS type machine. Almost a 412 competitor in my opinion. Cost is about $5mUS with SPIFR package fitted.

HH :cool:

Hippolite, at least you said almost a 412 replacement, still stuff all payload , power , range and room compared to a 412EP and the Eurotrash don't like high ambient temps /hot high (not european hot ie: 25oC) real hot high 35-45 oC like Mid East and Australia

Blackhawk9,

You might wanna compare BK117 with S-76 at Karratha. Last time I was there, BK would leave 76 for dead during summer (A while back I must admit). Well known that even the older LTS101 BK's have more than enough power, let alone the newer Arriel 2 powered versions!! Not all European helicopters are anaemic, and not all yank tanks have power to spare. Horses for courses.

blackhawk 9

Aa nooby says, horses for courses. I don't think that the 412EP would be any better even in your hot climate than the 145.
FYI, I am not in Europe.

The cabin in the 145 is more versatile than the 412EP although not quite as big. Remenber, the 145 is a smaller helicopter but for SOME missions, it would be a 412 EP competitor.

The 412 was good in its day but let's face it, its an old machine now with a limited life.

I think that you will see more 145s in your country, some even replacing or taking work from old 412s where the "voluminous" cabin of the 412 is not really being used to its full capacity.

HH:cool:

EC-145 drivers - comments wanted
 

we are going through the process of deciding whether this machine warrants further consideration from us. (read as spending money to actually go to a different country to test fly)

i would like to ask you ec-145 drivers what you feel are the good/bad points with this machine

the numbers look fine for our utility type missions, BUT, what is the ride like for exec transport ?? My understanding is that EC has changed the blade design to help quiet and smooth the ride, and added a vibration dampner. is the translational buffeting anything i should be concerned about (exec transport) ??

what REAL numbers are you getting at say 7200 lbs for airspeed ??

what is the stability like in gusty 10 - 25 kt winds, bags all around required ??

we are now flying a 407, so the ride/speed issue may play a great part in our decision


and no, we are not relying on these responses to make a final decision, just to get some feedback from people actually flying the bird :ok:

Its a 117 in disguise!!!!

No seriously just beware that its a utility aircraft that is not capable of producing the soothing cabin ride, environment or speed of an AB139 or Agusta Grand (to name but two).

Also no FADEC is a concern to many potential operators.

EC145 - Doors Off Flight?
 

Is the EC145 certified for doors-off flight?

I'm hearing that the doors must be kept closed as they are critical to the cabin structural integrity ... especially in relation to crashworthiness.

Anyone know?

Thanks for your help!

Brasky

Brasky,

The 145 FM Supplement Section 9.1-2 permits operations with a mix of crew and cabin doors open or removed subject to the usual limitations such as sideslip etc and your crosswind limit is reduced to 30 Kts. All seems pretty much standard.

STL

Ec145 doors
 

I am aware that the front-crew doors have a semi-open position of say 100mm which provides a wind-break/spoiler action over the open main-cabin doors.

It would appear that the design team have been attentive to the needs of a demanding first customer or two - the French MOD and the Civil Rescue Authorities.

:D

This might be relevant:
the EC135 cannot fly Class 1 (Cat A) with the doors opened.

Much the same reason I would assume - integrety of the cabin.

tc,
I am guessing that the doors will not restrict CAT A due to any structural reasons, but rather from excess drag causing reduced climb and acceleration performance. For example, the BK117 actually reduces it's climb performance by a staggering 250 ft per minute for doors open, so if you are heavy and OEI, taking 250 fpm off you is likely to be severley embarassing, and thus its a good thing to remember for rescue crews who have a donk failure: close the doors as quick as you can!

It also relates to the rear sliding doors!!!

No resistance there?

tc,
yep, that also relates to the rear sliding doors. The airflow disturbance around the fuselage caused by the big open hole is enough to incur the climb penalty.

hf

Who told you that?

Think it was the flight manual.
Will check on Sunday and let you know. Or let you know how embarassed I am!!

helmet fire is right. There are some aerodynamic causes limiting the airspeed and the performance. Greater airspeeds with removed doors could go up to problems controlling the bank of the a/c. Due to the greater drag and the influence of the changed airstreams to the main AND tailrotor, the performance isn't as good as with doors closed.
Cat A with opened / removed doors is also not certified on BK 117 and EC 135.

Integrity and chrashworthiness of the cabin is is abolutely given also with opened/removed doors. There is a carbon frame on EC 135/145 giving the structural integrity. The doors doesn't have structural influence.

metric - for what it's worth, sounds like the same mod that's available to the 135, a new front door strut that (with a selector) restricts the door from opening fully, acting as a spoiler for the rear sliding door. In the case of the 135, your front door also gets re-inforced down the trailing edge but the overall package allows flight to 110kts, rather than the usual 60kt limit, with the sliding door open.

re my last post:

Sorry tc about the time delay.

the FM for the BK117 does include the climb rate issue. under Supplement 11-3, Operation with Doors removed, para 5.2 rate of Climb
"Subtract corection value as indicated below from the rate of climb obtained from the applicable performance chart of basic flight Manual.

Gross weight (kg): ...............ROC Correction (Ft/min):

1700 - 2200 .....................450

2200 - 2850 ......................350

2850 - 3350 .........................250"


As the doors open ROC correction reduces with GW, it consistent with aerodynamic reasons (actual ROC reduces with GW, and drag is exponential, therefore correction reduces accordingly).

The BK117 also has a statement in the CAT A supplement that with doors open/removed, the aircraft is not certificated for CAT A. Cat A is only available in the B2 to 2900 kg, so removing around 350 ft/min due drag of the open doors will cause the aircraft to fail to meet the CAT A profile.

I think!

ec145 and fadec, rumor or not ??
 

heard from a friend who heard from an ec145 maint. engineer that the ec145's will SOON be delivered with fadec.

with the knowledge base of posters out there, can someone please confirm or deny the rumor

According to Turbomeca the Arriel 1E2 engines couldn't be upgraded with a FADEC and Turbomeca isn't interested in major modifications on this "old" engines. And FADEC-ing is the part of the engine manufacturers not ECD.

It's right there are plans to upgrade the EC 145 on the next development level with a 5-bladed rotor, new MR Gearbox and FADEC equipped engines.

Just ask the maint. engineer to definite the therm "soon" ...
;)

Eurocopter EC145 - the list price
 

Guess I'm a bit sad, but does anyone know what the EC145 list price is...the price that gets you a helicopter with nothing of any value at all - I think Eurocopter call that the Standard helicopter. And before someone offers me the UK police price, that is not the number I need!:cool:

just curious, what is the UK police price ??

Is that with or without FADEC???

As always asking a vague question will get a vague answer or in this case probably a misleading one. Take whatever figure you are given by the EC PR boys here and add at least 10% for anything like a half decent spec.

Then the real question is how much less is an Agusta Grand!!!;)

As Eurobolkow emphsises, your question is without substance.

You will need to contact your local Eurocopter dealer and thrash it through with them adding all the bits and peices that you require including paint and interior and expect a big cost difference between the basic spec (airframe, engine, transmission and basic instrumentation) and the final fly away cost. The Agusta looks more expensive initially but the end cost needs appreciating.

You really will need to draw up a spec list before asking general questions like:
how much is a lexus 300???

type of engines
level of IF suite
seating arrangements
overwater capability
etc etc

The absolute basic lada level is around 5,,500,000 euros.

I'll narrow it down.

How much does a Europian built helicopter cost? :D

not where is is built that affects price but where is is sold.
BTW EC145 is only built in Germany.

Ec145
 

Somebody with EC145 experience?? Actually I'm in progress for a PBH contract with EC, would like to list the components which are most suspected/deftuous. All info welcome.


Regards,
Bertrand

Hello all,


okay, here it goes, "I know someone who knows someone" who plays with the idea to aquire a VIP/Corporate EC135. My interest is to get into this ship!
I do have the slight hope to get involved into the decision making process for the final-order-specs as well.
Knowing that VIP ships get rather heavy by the time they are done, I am entertaining the idea to suggest a EC145 instead, IF the requirements for transport go beyond the 4-seat VIP-135 version (4 in the back one on the co-pilot seat).

Money is always a question, but in this case it is secondary.
My concern is to be able to use full fuel at most all times, even thinking about the removable aux-tank (Long distance between available fuel stops).

Basic question is:

Are there ANY EC145 or BK117 out there in a VIP/Corporate configuration? I am talking leather/bar/satphone/pop-outs/etc.

These people are rather set for EC, however I appreciate any and all suggestions (at this time you are only bringing ME up to speed in the VIP helicopter world!)

What is your take on the idea of a VIP-EC145?

I have all the EC-info on the 145, there is no VIP interior like the 135 available, so I also appreciate hints towards companies that could transform a basic 145 into a VIP-transport!

I do have some questions to the EC-135 in this role too, but I will start a new thread for that or hook on the existing 135/355 discussion. However first I would like to wait for your response to this here!

Thanks to all in advance!

ECdoesit:cool:

Does the Ec-145 have the little spoiler under the clamshell doors like on the 105-ls ? I wuz told on the 105 it was something about the TR not being as effective if the air flow on the fuselage was allowed to stay attached too for back.

5-Blade-Rotor for EC 145
 

A 5-Blade-Rotor was tested o a EC 145 in April 2006 at Donauwörth, Germany. More on www.eurocopter.com News. It looks like an improved rotorsystem of the EC 135

INteresting trivia , there was a prototype 5 blade head for the BO105LS fabricated in the early 80's. I don't think it ever flew.