Not sure about this non-start first time thing. I have 1500 hours in the police role, short flights + lots of start/stops. It has never ever ever ever failed to start first time. Turbomeca engine. What are you doing wrong???

:ok: I didn't mean it like that, sorry if I caused offence. I just wanted to balance the argument. If you don't put the prime pumps on first, it doesn't start very often. The big UK consortium are going for the PW option, so I guess it must be ok as well.

Just to add to JT2's comment, I have flown a number of EC135s with TM power over a few years in the UK.

There were starting problems with the early versions, if you did not let the prime pumps have a few seconds to do their thing. There were also early problems with the HMUs. However, apart from that and certainly with the later machines my experience on starting is exactly the same as JT2. Perhaps the reputation for poor starts came from that early experience?

There are now two inlet barrier filters (IBFs) offered for the EC135 - one from Eurocopter and a second from FDC/aerofilter. AFS is also working on a third system.

Here in the States, the EC135P2+ has been outselling the EC135T2+ by about 3 to 1, though there has been some concern about P&WC's support in recent years due to its heavy focus on the PW600 turbofan (a situation that may improve now that the VLJ market has cooled). To its credit, TM has also been stepping-up its support, despite record production levels.

I/C

I believe the big consortium buy for PW was down to the fact of available machines in a short time since the TM ones appear to have a longer waiting list, also TM want ultra clean water for their engine rinses which used to be daily but PW are happy with tapwater things like this had a bearing as well.

Well this is how I understand it.

All most all of Germany's Air Ambulance use the PW. The one in Berlin (I think) even has airfilters.

DRF and ADAC mostly PW, the orange and blue ones of Federal Police are T2i ( TM ).

Berlin ( Christoph 31 ) is equipped with sandfilters: Christoph 31 testet Sandfilter (ergänzt) | rth.info - Faszination Luftrettung | Rettungshubschrauber online

skadi

Hi all,

good info!

The start-up failure of the TMs:
I had that happen on a Arriel (B3).
MY FAULT!
Started to cut down on the primer pump time!
The occasion was with very low fuel and the primer on less than 10 sec...
Manual says 30 sec!! Pilot Error!!

My next concern is what engine is better for hot,humid climate!

PW has 20 more horses at MCP, but slightly lower performance on OEI...

Someone mentioned that TM looks better on "paper" - what's the real life situation?

THanx!

3top, :cool:

Another question for all 135 drivers/mechanics/engineers:

Obviously we will need an Airconditioning System or we'll be fried!

EC offers a tropical version....

My question is if someone has experience with either EC aircon and/or the aftermarket AirComm - system.

Going by either companies reputation, this is a no-brainer with the winner being AirComm...

But, I'd rather go for some real life experience.

Thanx,

3top,:cool:

The EC Air Con is known to have issues with vibration and cracking in various areas, it's weight notwithstanding.

The Air Comm is not the only aftermarket A/C. Metro Aviation builds a similar one. The difference is the compressor on the Metro unit is not in the engine inlet flow. Always wondered what a refrigerant gas leak would do to the engines. Flameout?

Cheers Skadi.

3top
Someone mentioned to me recently that PW had halved their power by the hour (I think) costs on these engines, in order to win sales.
Can't remember specifics but presumably worth looking into.

Thank you gentleman!

Keep it coming! All great info!

I will let you all know how this ends up!


3top,:cool:

I'd concur with JT2's comments (19th Apr #514) re starting - after over 5 years and around 2000 starts, putting both TM engines to Idle at the same time, the ONLY time they haven't started straight away was when I'd rushed & forgotten the Prime Pumps - my error, not TM!

Brill Stuff (#519) also comments re water rinses. TM used to insist on daily, now happy with weekly unless in salt laden environment, which could be done "hot" (at idle) or "cold" (using vent switch). Hot makes very little difference to operational availability, cold keeps the aircraft off-line for about 10 mins longer. PW still insist on daily and only have a cold procedure, I understand, despite being happy with tap water. Rather depends on what role you're using the aircraft for.

As far as tail boom colour goes, would concur that a dark tail is a must for Police or lots of hovering operations, whether TM or PW. It's the long hovering that cooks the tail - a nearby Air Ambulance (all Yellow) keeps a nice shiny tail as they just go from A-B & the tailboom stays out of the dirty airflow!

Good luck with whatever you end up with - it's a fabulous machine.:ok:

Panel, Switches pictures
 

Does anyone have pictures of the electrical panel, instrument panel, cyclic and collective controls of an EC135P2.
I am looking for pictures that show the lay out, design and placement of all the controls.

Thanks in advance

TPK the instrument panel should not be any different between the P and T.

Zora just to add, the hot rinsing is a weekly doddle if you have an engineer standing by reason being it needs an engineer to unplug the hoses from the engines since since the connectors are sadly right under the hot section instead of being routed to the outside like the latest 355s

If you only have the pilot it's a bit of a faff.

But fortunately these rinses are now weekly.

Thanks for the info. I was able to find exactly what I needed.

TM is definitely cleaner. Wipe with your finger in the exhaustpipe and you will see the difference! That has nothing to do with the flightprofile ( hovering operation ). Maybe the Air Ambulance use their time off for cleaning their machine....

skadi

We operate two TM powered 135 50% in the hover and both need their tails painting on a regular basis. Using the thermal camera you can see the abuse the tail gets in the hover. Air Glaze is being trialled next to see if that improves the longevity of the tail paint. The affected area is just after the exhausts up to the stabilizer.

But thats a different cause, the heat. I saw the newer Ts have extra "heatshields" right behind the exhaust pipes.
http://www.helionline.net/463-239890.../22916/big.jpg

Hey Skadi,

is that the tall/high landing gear?

3top:cool: