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Anyone flown (or fly) the Huey?
FORT WORTH, TX On December 7, 2001 The New York State Police successfully conducted the first flight of a UH-1 modified with a Bell Helicopter Textron Huey II Upgrade package. The modification upgrade installation was performed by Helipro - East Coast Division facility located in Wappingers Falls, New York. This is the first of three planned Huey II upgrades for the New York State Police. According to the New York State Police, these aircraft will conduct fire fighting, fish stocking, search and rescue, as well as general law enforcement operations. Jeff Pino, Senior Vice President for Bell Helicopter said today, "This first flight is important because it launches the first public use Huey II in the United States. This provides continuing evidence of the on going success of this very important program for both Bell Helicopter and the New York State Police." Bell Helicopter Textron has sold 75 Huey II modification upgrade kits to date to customers in the United States to include the United States State Department, South America and the Pacific Rim. The Huey II is playing a critical role in the on going US sponsored counter drug programs in Colombia and surrounding countries. The Huey II upgrade incorporates commercial improvements developed during the last 20+ years from experience gained in the commercial 205/212/412 fleet. The Huey II upgrade eliminates the current onerous airworthiness problems manifest in the current UH-1H. This is accomplished by extensive replacement of drive train and airframe items with new components as well as major structural upgrades. The modified Huey II is then able to be fully supported by Bell Helicopter Textron with product support, logistics, and spares. In addition the Huey II benefits with performance enhancements which allow increased gross weights of 10,500 internal/11,200 external. What's it like? Stories to share? |
from the Fort Worth Star
ARLINGTON - Nearly four decades ago, UH-1 Huey helicopters built by Bell Helicopter Textron first carried U.S. soldiers into battle. If all goes as planned, U.S. Marines will still be flying into the world's hot spots 20 years from now aboard Bell-built - and rebuilt - Hueys. The first of the next-generation Hueys - the UH-1Y - was unveiled Thursday at the company's flight test facility at Arlington Municipal Airport. "This is a very important milestone for ... us as we continue to transform Marine aviation," said Lt. Gen. William "Spider" Nyland, the deputy commandant overseeing the Marine Corps' air arm. Rather than buy new helicopters, the Marines decided several years ago to save money and have Bell rebuild their aging fleet of Hueys and Super Cobra attack helicopters. Already over budget and behind schedule, the program is an important one for the Marines and for Bell. The Fort Worth manufacturer has changed top executives and cut jobs in recent months because of delays in the troubled V-22 Osprey program and slow sales of commercial helicopters. Over the next 10 to 12 years, the Marines plan to spend an estimated $4.5 billion to give 100 Hueys AND 180 Super Cobras a new lease on life. Bell will strip the old helicopters down to their frames, make necessary repairs and then modernize them by adding new high- performance engines, transmissions and rotor systems, high-tech electronics and other state-of-the art components. The result, Nyland said, will be helicopters that can fly faster and carry twice the troops and equipment twice as far as the existing helicopters. Just as important, Nyland said, the rebuilt Huey and Super Cobras will share 85 percent of their parts. That means the aircraft will be easier to maintain and repair. And the Marines will have to buy and stock fewer spare parts, saving money and freeing up space aboard the Navy's amphibious ships that transport the Marine expeditionary units. Fulfilling those promises, however, is proving harder and more expensive than planned. The program is about a year behind schedule. And the estimated cost of rebuilding 280 helicopters has grown to $4.5 billion from $4 billion in the past year. Bell has had to share in the pain of the cost increases. Textron, Bell's parent, reported in October that it was taking a $73 million write-off because of cost overruns at Bell, largely on the H-1 program. Those overruns, as well as numerous other problems, led to the firing by Textron in late September of Terry Stinson as Bell's chairman and chief executive. Col. Doug Isleib, the Marine program manager overseeing the Huey and Super Cobra rebuilding, said he believes that the major problems have been resolved and that the program is making good progress. The task of tearing down the old helicopters and repairing and modifying the airframes proved more challenging than expected, Isleib said. Bell expects to fly the new Huey for the first time in the next few days and to turn it over to the Marines for flight tests early next year. "I'm a Huey pilot, so I'm really excited by this airplane," Isleib said. The first rebuilt Super Cobra was delivered to the Marines a year ago. It has since been undergoing flight testing at the Patuxent Naval Air Test Center in Maryland and has logged more than 176 flight hours to date. "We've been flying for over a year without any real technical problems," Isleib said. In the next few months, Bell will deliver two more Super Cobras and a second Huey to the Marines for the flight testing which, if all goes well, will continue into 2004. At that time, the program is expected to begin operational evaluation testing, which means flying the aircraft in missions and conditions designed to simulate how the Marines will use them. Even if all the technical and operational obstacles are surmounted, Isleib said the Marines will continue to face budget battles, in the Pentagon and in Congress. The helicopter program will be competing for funding at a time when the armed forces are also trying to buy new aircraft like the V-22 Osprey and the Joint Strike Fighter, which will be built in Fort Worth by Lockheed Martin. But Terry Dake, Bell's senior vice president and a retired Marine general, said at the rollout ceremony, "There is no group that can fight more tenaciously for funding" than the Marines. |
HH-1N's, US Navy. SAR Crew and got plenty of stick time.
(Formerly UH-1N's) There isn't anything like it. |
Gotta love THAT paint-scheme!
Yeah, about 2500 hours in UH-1/H and V's. Beats the hell out of flying 206's anyday. They are kinda like a Timex. They take a beating and keep on ticking... But, of all makes/models I've flown, It's hard to beat the Loach. Fun, Fun, Fun! |
yep :cool:
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UH-1 (A)(B)(D)(H)(M)(V)
EH-1 Couple Thousand hours of great times and scary moments.... For those who remember class numbers?? (ORWAC 70-28) |
1500 hours, 500 in Hueys, 1000 in snakes, Worwac 69-5. IP US Army.
Great combat bird for 1969 (it is a "jet heli-co-peter" in WOC language!), acceptable combat bird for 1979, pretty crummy way to go into combat in a new century. :cool: |
One thing you need to know about the Huey II...it is not type certificated in the United States, or any other country as of the present date, and Bell has no interest in gaining approval for this ship in commercial operations...
Bell developed the modifications for foreign military sales...so the only folks in the states that can use the "Huey II" are public service types that operate the ships in the "public service" category. Don't think they can be approved for commercial use in Europe or the UK. There are upgrades available for 205A1's to incorporate these changes....the ship becomes a 205B after you incorporate a long list of STC's that bring the ship up to a similar configuration as the "Huey II". Bell needs to go evaluate each 205 and give their blessing on the upgrade to the 205B model configuration after the incorporation of the non Bell STC's, and additional airframe upgrades referenced in Bell service bulletins..... Another interesting point..the original "Huey II" installed a 212 style nose assembly on the front of the helicopter...so the ballast weight for the added equipment in the tail would be moved further forward, affording less dead weight installed...looks like the ship in the picture skipped this mod.... As of this date, Bell will not support any type certificated former military Huey...they only support the ones the public service agencies use....unless they are type certificated of course.... Go ahead...call up Bell and ask about the availability of the Huey II upgrade for a restricted catagory UH-1H Helicopter....you get the courtesy dial tone real fast..... [ 19 December 2001: Message edited by: rotormatic ] |
Absolutely loved my short time in the UH-1H and Bell 212 (about a 1000 or so).
Sorry Nick, the UH-60 was a better helicopter (and I have more time in it), but give me the Huey to fly, especially the 212. That wok IS the sound of freedom. :D :cool: :D :cool: :D :cool: :D |
I still remember 158257, alas the last time i saw it, was on the transient ramp in P-cola headed for Davis .... <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
It had degraded a lot since the last time I had seen it, and failed ASPA corrosion inspection. |
Aussie bushranger UH-1H gunships, still going, although, I wont say "going strong", it is a dieing art. Twin 7.62 miniguns (400RPM each, with 5600 rounds for each), 14 2.75 inch rockets and two twin M60 door guns with about 2000 rounds each (I think). Poor old girl struggled to get of the ground, but my my, I challenge anyone to have more fun than a heavy fire team knocking crap out of a hill with WP rockets at sunset.
la la la, as I go wandering off dreaming of the fun. Hats off to the guys who flew hueys of all kinds in SE Asia. what a legacy you left. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> |
Boy, are you asking for it!
A Delta model, good old 925. Never let me down. Unlike the Maintainence officer's pet "H"... |
Of all the Huey's that I have seen they are great looking birds and I thought it would be impossible to make one look bad. However put doors on it and give it a discusting paint job and apparently it is possible.....yuk!!!
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What a great machine.
Very honest and nice to fly, and of course they are the quintessential helicopter when it comes to being in the movies! Kind of like the Zippo lighter or the Harley - you can imagine the director going "No, not that little dinky helicopter, get the cool Vietnam one that makes the great thumping sound!" |
Bushranger,
I saw those aircraft in Vung Tau in 1969. OD paint job with Yellow Roos on the doors, I think (memory is a funny thing!) Nice to see some allies there in the thick of things. Great guys, great fighters, and kind of wild after hours. Saw a truckload of Aussies unload in a few seconds to help a mate out in a brief barfight. Glad those guys were on our side! :) :) |
To: rotormatic
Agusta built the AB-205 under license from Bell and it is almost identical to the UH-1 (I don’t know which UH-1 mod is comparable). In Iran these helicopters along with the AB-206s were maintained using US Army maintenance manuals for the UH-1 and the OH-58. These 205s are all over Europe, the Middle East and Africa. They can’t be sold in the USA or certificated by the FAA at least that was in 1976. |
Hello Mr. Zuckerman
You are right, most of the Bell type aircraft that Agusta made are not able to be certificated in the States...because when Bell made the agreement with Agusta to produce these aircraft, they made sure there would not be any competition in the states with the Bell counterparts... How times have changed with the aircraft under development....now they work as a "team"... Is Bell trying to peddle the non certificated Huey II mod on the Agusta ships in Europe and the UK? |
Bell certainly has a Long D***, because they continually step on it. In the last few years it seems they have gone from one of the top producers of Helicopters to a second rate company; adding more models to already outdated airframes.
That coupled with the way they bungled the Military Surplus programs have taken there toll. Eurocopter is kicking their Archaic Butts... |
To: rotormatic
I can’t answer your question about the Huey upgrade being marketed by Agusta. Regarding licensing agreements Sikorsky licensed the S-61 and its’ variants to include the HH-3F which I believe was sold to the US Coast Guard by Agusta. It is also my understanding that the US Navy purchases a great deal of spare dynamic components for their SH3-D helicopters from Agusta. I made a comment on another thread that license built helicopters made by Agusta are built to a higher standard than the same helicopters built by the original design companies. That goes for the fuselages, dynamic components and the entire driveline. Bell is the only major Helicopter Company that I know of that builds their own transmissions. Agusta builds the entire helicopter to include making the castings and gears for the transmissions. |
Mr. Zuckerman's opinions on the quality of license built vs original manufactured items is only his opinion. I have made a living helping license manufacturers get their quality up to factory standards. The idea that the original design and manufacturing team cannot meet the standards they themselves set is clearly incorrect.
Also, many helicopter manufacturers make many transmission parts for their transmissions, unlike Mr. Zuckerman's incorrect assertion. Most manufacturers do the final machining, assembly and testing. No manufacturer makes all the parts of their transmissions. All buy bearings, gearbox case castings and the large gear castings from other aerospace manufacturers. No helicopter manufacturer has the facilities, experience or volume to make gearbox castings, for example. |
.........and I thought that we were singing the virtues of the venerable Huey. Perhaps we should change the thread to "S61's and how Augusta is the best". What do you think Lu?
:) :) |
“Mr. Zuckerman's opinions on the quality of license built vs original manufactured items is only his opinion. I have made a living helping license manufacturers get their quality up to factory standards. The idea that the original design and manufacturing team cannot meet the standards they themselves set is clearly incorrect”.
My comments were based on my tour of duty at Agusta (close to three years). I became aware of the extremely high level of quality of the metal work, the methods of construction and the amount of effort made in the construction of the fuselages and other elements of the helicopter. At the time I was at Agusta, I had worked at Hughes Helicopters on the Apache, the Cheyenne at Lockheed, three years at Bell as a service engineering manager and a 14 month training program at Sikorsky with a preponderance of that time on the production floor doing everything from shooting rivets to building blades. I asked the chief engineer about the differences in level of quality between the Agusta product and those of the original designers of the helicopters. His response was that the original designers concentrated on delivery schedule and manpower costs while Agusta did have to concentrate on delivery schedules they did not at that time have to worry about manpower costs because of the nature of the company and how it was an arm of the government. The only helicopter built in the USA that could compare to the level of quality construction of the fuselage was the Apache but Ryan, who has the highest level of metal work, constructed it. Hughes on the other hand was still building models of the 500 series using plaster tooling and at that time they had constructed well over 2000 models of that helicopter. “Also, many helicopter manufacturers make many transmission parts for their transmissions, unlike Mr. Zuckerman's incorrect assertion. Most manufacturers do the final machining, assembly and testing. No manufacturer makes all the parts of their transmissions. All buy bearings, gearbox case castings and the large gear castings from other aerospace manufacturers. No helicopter manufacturer has the facilities, experience or volume to make gearbox castings, for example. I did not wish to imply that Agusta made ball and roller bearings but I did imply that they made castings of every transmission on every helicopter they built and they cut every gear for those transmissions. They also make the rotorheads and other components of the dynamic and drive line systems. They have their own casting plant in central Italy that does all of the gear box casting work. They also do the dynamic run in of every transmission they build. Things may have changed at Sikorsky since my time but when I was there they had all of their rotorheads made by a machining company in Connecticut and they came in as a kit and were assembled by Sikorsky. They also purchased their transmissions from Indiana gear Works and they were also shipped in as a kit. The reason I can say this is that I constructed transmission, and rotorheads as well as clutches for the S-55, the S-58 and the H-37. As I previously indicated, it was my understanding that the US Navy purchases components for the dynamic and drivelines for their SH3-Ds from Agusta. Also when I worked for Bell I was told that they did their own casting of transmission elements and they cut their own gears but the did purchase the bearings. [ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: Lu Zuckerman ]</p> |
[quote].........and I thought that we were singing the virtues of the venerable Huey. Perhaps we should change the thread to "S61's and how Augusta is the best". What do you think Lu?<hr></blockquote>
You're right, Helmet Fire. That is what the thread was about. I wanted (and got) contributions from pilots who've flown or still fly this venerable helicopter. That's why the post is called Anyone flown a Huey? It also gives anyone wishing to learn an opportunity to ask questions. ----- What was it about the Huey which was so good? It would be good to hear reminiscences by pilots who flew them in action. |
My best guess-
She had the best crews in the world. Crew chiefs routinely worked 38 hour days, relying on sleep reserves they accumulated some time in the historical past. Having the aircraft red-x'd when she was needed was a mortal insult. If the Crew Chief said the aircraft would fly, he meant it would fly with his ass in it. Pilot damage to aircraft not tolerated. I don't think Baby-san would really have broken my arm if I hot started 925-but I wasn't prepared to find out. Oddly, Baby-san would be absolutely silent while I did the most outlandish dumbass FNG pilot stuff up front... Cleo came to be my gunner from a line outfit. I don't think he'd ever heard the word "fear". If he took three shots to hit a target from a hard turn at 1500 with his free 60, it was somebodys' lucky day-a short day, but lucky to that point. If he'd said he could brush my teeth with that 60, I'd have gotten out the Colgate and a grin. 38 hour days? Cleo did it, and OJT as crew chief-later took over 925. May have even done better than Baby-san, but that's a pure theoretical concept. 925 was the best by-god helicopter that ever turned a blade because two guys in the back wouldn't let it (or me) be anything else. |
Zuckerman said:
Things may have changed at Sikorsky since my time..... Nick sez: As an expert and having visited all the world's helicopter manufacturers, with friends and associates at each one, I can assure you that your recollections are pretty much off target as things used to be, and your comments are of no use as things are now. Virtually everything you recall about helicopter manufacturing as stated in your above post is no longer true, if it ever was. I meet daily with the Sikorsky people who make Sikorsky rotor heads, transmissions and the like. The machines that cut the metal and mold the composites are lined up on the enormous factory floor for all to see. It is particularly mysterious how you get the ideas that well up in your posts. History has proven one thing - trying to convince you is of no use. Say what you will, Lu. [ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: Nick Lappos ]</p> |
To: Nick Lappos
Sooner than getting into a P*****G contest with an “expert” I will remind you of a caution offered to me by Heliport. It in part stated that I should not post defamatory information and I should have a means of backing up my statements. I qualified my post by indicating that this is the way it was when I was involved in the various programs and relative to Sikorsky it may very well have changed. If it in effect has changed then what I said is no longer true. My experience with Agusta was about twelve years ago and at that time they had their own casting facility and their own gear cutting capability and Bell did as well. Agustaalso put more manhours into the construction of their helicopters and as such had a higher build quality than the licensing companies. With the advent of elastomeric rotor systems maybe Sikorsky brought the machining capability in-house and no longer relied on outside vendors to produce their rotorheads and maybe with the advent of new machining capabilities Sikorsky started to cut their own gears and just bought castings from outside vendors. Agusta on the other hand (at the time of my involvement) made their own castings, their own forgings, and their own gears and assembled and tested these transmissions in their own test labs. This was true for SH3-Ds, S-61s, all of the AB products, the HH3-Fs, the CH-47s, their own product line (A-129, A-109 series and the EH-101). You on the other hand simply said I was wrong without offering the facts as to why I was wrong. Regarding the use of the term "expert" I will remind you of the definition of the term. An expert is an individual that knows exactly how many sticks of dynamite to slip into a bulls nostrils in order to blow the bulls horns off without getting the bulls eyes bloodshot. [ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: Lu Zuckerman ]</p> |
Is it so hard to just answer the question:
Yes! 2500 in H model Hueys...Tropics to the Antarctic... A glorious beast unsurpassed low level on a crystal clear winters morning. The sound of freedom. Sadly now confined to FL370 with 'george' at the helm. |
To answer the thread's question:
Yes, 1200 hours in AB205 (equivalent to H) in one of the most breath-taking countries in the world. Never mind what the recent victims of Saif Sareea II say about it; Oman had everything a baby heli pilot could want and more. Landing and shutting-down in a wadi 2500 feet high, 1000 feet below the top on an otherwise vertical cliff face - unable to lash the blades as the tailboom was sticking out over the lower 1500 feet. Standard operating altitude on exercise and task was <50 feet, 'cos everything above that belonged to the Hunters and the occasional lunatic Skyvan driver. Could've done with better crosswind-from-the-right performance up on the jebel (ops up to 10000 feet, +26 deg once), though... More recently, 850 hours over 3 years on the 212 in the Borneo jungle. And they actually PAID me to do it! Does life get any better than that? Apart from stiff knees while I reacquainted myself with that unique Bell attitude to cockpit ergonomics, there wasn't a single thing I'd change about the beastie. Only one thing I'd change about this board, though.. I wish there was a filter that could zap a Lu-ism before it even left his keyboard. Boy, am I getting tired of Z and the Art of Helicopter Maintenance. Sorry if that sounds intolerant in what I gather some people consider a season of goodwill to all men, but I find I only have so much of that commodity to offer. Eid Mubarak/ Happy New Year/ Gong Xi Fa Chai or whatever to everyone else. |
Thanks for the excellent reminiscences guys. Keep 'em coming!
[quote]"Only one thing I'd change about this board, though.. I wish there was a filter that could zap a Lu-ism before it even left his keyboard. Boy, am I getting tired of Z and the Art of Helicopter Maintenance. Sorry if that sounds intolerant in what I gather some people consider a season of goodwill to all men, but I find I only have so much of that commodity to offer."<hr></blockquote> Lu Z: PLEASE would you pause for a moment to consider that comment. Although it's expressed in much wittier terms than people usually use, it's a very familiar theme isn't it. |
CH-135 in northern Canada
canadain military designation for the 212 PS: i don't care if i can't spell! |
How about starting a Thread.......Lappos vs. Zuckerman a 10 round extravganza....Where is Howard Cosell when you need him....
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Howard C? Who he?
:) <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> |
Strange contest between an expert test pilot and an expert maintenance man! :)
And how would you keep Lu on topic. Nobody's ever succeeded yet? <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> "Z and the Art of Helicopter Maintenance" - one of the funniest comments of 2001 T&B. Says it all! :) :) :) [ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: Hoverman ]</p> |
A few years back I acquired an old printout from the Oz Huey Gunship crews explaining the role of all the other Oz defence force aircraft. Please feel free to expand on it as I can only vaguely remember the gist of it. Maybe w-ocker or Bushranger will recall it.
But how wonderfully true... C130 Herc: Long range Huey gunship transporter. B707: Huey gunship overseas crew deployment vehicle. Caribou: Short field transport to move adoring fans to the range area for Huey gunship displays. CH-47: Huey gunship crew van transporter. S-70: Huey gunship fuel and ammo resupply vehicle. F-18: Aerial drone used to attract ground fire away from the real threat - the Huey gunship. Also used as a decoy for Huey air to air engagements. F-111: Precision LZ maker for Huey gunship forward bases. RF-111: High speed reconnaisance aircraft for Huey gunship strikes. Nomad: P1ss transporter for Huey gunship deployments. Kiowa: Target marker for Huey gunship strikes. SeaHawk: Offshore target detector for Huey gunship strikes. ...or something like that. anyone care to add more? .....and someone asked why the Huey was so good. The world revolves around them!! :) :) :) |
Helmut,
Love it! Me, only a couple of thousand in the 212, mostly offshore, bit of SAR with the NSCA (where is Freddo?? <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> ), and some offshore stuff in UnZud in a 205 with lightweight floats: hollow skid tubes. Common NS theory was that the 212 should be painted yellow with a Mack truck hood ornament on the nose <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Watching the ex military UH1's in a variety of guises currently fire fighting in NSW, mostly bought for the price of a JetRanger, and all doing sterling work under the Restricted category. HeliPro even ferried a 204 and a BK117 from UnZud earlier this week, two days later they were on the fire line!! |
A reasonable question young Eacott. Everytime I see Thunderbirds I have a suspicion that a German accent will pop up in some tropical island rescue scenario. The legend lives on.
Also who was the pilot who kicked in the front door.....another legend he'll know who. All the best for 6002. Huey....isn't he a celebrity chef? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> [ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: volpe ]</p> |
Follwoing on from the NSCA theme, I was one of the lucky ones...although not blue eyed and blond..who courtesy of Freddo started from scratch on the B205. Big Helicopter for first flight, first solo. Nice way to start your civilian aviation career though. Spoilt...well maybe!!
For those of you who know me and are going to comment..yes I can still breathe through my ears!!! |
Freddos not running Air New Zealand is he? <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Hey Too Cloudy, can you make a u turn? [ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: sling load ]</p> |
No, but I can make it's eyes bulge!!!!! :) <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Ya Ya it's coolankatta for you. Come pack ven the card shtops ya.
Just joking. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> |
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